God is evil?

[ForthAngel]

Just some stuff I’ve learned while doing my studies.

Some people like to think God is cruel because of things that happened in the Old Testament. Even I fell prey to this thought hundreds, maybe thousands of times before. This causes a lot of doubts about God and his nature. I think I’ve got a valid way of reasoning all of the acts of God in the Old Testament though and I’m hoping it makes sense to others.

Isaiah 28:24-26 says:

24 Doth the plowman plow all day to sow? Doth he open and break the clods of his ground?
25 When he hath made plain the face thereof, doth he not cast abroad the fitches, and scatter the cumin, and cast in the principal wheat and the appointed barley and the rye in their place?
26 For his God doth instruct him to discretion and doth teach him.

The Bible, especially when Jesus is giving a parable, we as humans are often referred to as plants, trees, seeds, and that we can bear fruit. Jesus also refers to the earth as a field, and that the wheat will grow with the chaff until harvest time.

I think the entire timeline of the bible can be reflected as a farmer plowing and breaking the ground of his field , then scattering seeds in that field, and eventually harvest time. The Old Testament times were a time of plowing and preparing the field for the farmer to plant his crops. Hard clods of dirt had to be broken, and the labor was much more difficult than the rest. Plowing the fields (especially manually) is the hardest part (physically) of farming.

Times were hard then. There was a reason for such rules (physical obedience to the law), and destruction on a massive scale (breaking the hard clods of the field). This was to prepare the world for the sewer of the seeds (the prophets and Jesus). There was another reason as well for the physical law and the hardships, but I will get to that in my next post. It will also offer an explanation into the nature of sin, wickedness, and unrighteousness and why it is actually necessary.

 

[ForthAngel]

In Romans chapter 3, Paul gives us some insight into the necessity of the law and unrighteousness and what role it plays by being part of our human condition. It takes a while to really understand what he means, but I think I have started to understand more fully.

Romans 3: 3-8
3 For what if some did not believe? Shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightiest be justified in thy sayings, and mightiest overcome when thou art judged.
5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

What Paul is saying, in a nutshell, is that unrighteousness actually commends righteousness by justifying it. This is a hard concept to grasp because this can actually cause someone to have a tainted view of God. It also means that through evil, the good is justified. Paul defends this in verse 8 by saying the Christians at the time had been slandered for this teaching, calling evil a necessity.

But this doesn’t mean we can do evil to bring about good things. There are enough people doing that without our help (paradoxically including us). Basically, what it means is how can we know what is good, or even begin to comprehend what it is, without a stark comparison of the opposite. How could righteousness be justified without an unrighteous counterpart? It couldn’t. We wouldn’t understand what it is. He goes on to say that we are all under sin and none is better than another in verse 9 and 10.

This also correlates with the old physical laws layed down by Moses which I will go over in my next post.

 

[ForthAngel]

Romans 3 verse 19-20 says:

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

I don’t think it’s God’s plan for us to be blameless and there is a profound, foundational reasoning for this. It doesn’t mean he is evil or cruel (verse 5). Without being condemned, we wouldn’t be able to comprehend the Grace of God and rely on him. Just like righteousness without unrighteousness, we would be incapable of understanding or recognizing it. We would become wise in our own conceit and justify unrighteousness with unrighteousness and continue descending into a state of complete and utter depravity.

Paul says here that the law and all who are under it are made guilty by it and this is because the law serves to show us right from wrong. It gives us knowledge of sin, therefore condemning us, a sinful people, because none of us are capable of perfection in the flesh.

If we are all condemned, then it would be hopeless had not God in all of his grace offered us a way to redeem ourselves through faith. Why else is the law important? The law is a witness in and of itself to us to the nature of God’s unfailing, unyielding, undying love. Without the law, we COULD NOT recognize these attributes of God. Without being condemned, we could never be saved...

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

So.. what I get from this is that the law condemns us by making us aware of unrighteousness, thereby justifying those things which are right. By condemning us, we are made aware of the power and glory of God and his sovereignty and prompted to seek him for help. But this doesn’t mean there isn’t hope. Because the law was a witness to the righteousness of God, and by condemning us, it paved the way for salvation by faith and the understanding and recognition of God’s grace through Jesus. It opened the door for Jesus’ arrival and showed us that we can be saved, if we only believe.

Paul goes on to say:

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Awesome. We are saved without works and justified by faith alone, not adherence to the physical laws because we are under the law of faith, BUT:

31 Do we then make void the law (physical) through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

This right here causes complete confusion in a lot of people, especially surface minded people, and on two extremes. If faith saves us without adhering to the law, how can the law still be in effect? Well, this is where our reliance on God comes into play. If we truly believe in the gift Jesus is offering, he “declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God”. He helps us obey the law by guiding us, causing us to grow, and teaches us true repentance.

This doesn’t mean we will become sinless, but we are saved from the condemnation of the law (the law that we must still follow). But I realized that after being saved, adherence to the law comes naturally through a more powerful and louder conscience, personal convictions, and prayer. Understanding is gained, and knowledge is gained. You constantly progress into a more perfect (albeit still far from it) creation.

 

[ForthAngel]

So what I have deduced is this:

The Old Testament, the physical laws, and the evil and destruction that was present, were all God laying the groundwork so he could be glorified. God was plowing the field, breaking the hard clods of dirt, and conditioning the soil to be ready for the seeds. The prophets of old planted seeds along the way. Even still, this happens on a personal basis from person to person, like a smaller echo of the greater.

When Jesus arrived, he continued to plant seeds as well as watered them so that they might grow. He says that the wheat will grow among the chaff until harvest day, when the chaff will be cut down and thrown into the fire to be burned while the wheat is gathered into his barn.

We are currently in the time of growing in the field and waiting on the day of harvest when God returns to judge mankind. At that time, those who have followed and believed will be gathered into his barn, while all those who refused will be cast into the fire.

It’s plain for me to see that evil actually was part of God’s plan somehow and I also recognized that this does NOT make God evil in any way. Its existence is for a reason, and it is not to condemn, but to bring salvation and understanding to an otherwise helpless creation. This is a seemingly paradoxical outlook, but the truth is really there for anyone who looks.

 

[crossnote]

Doing evil never causes good. Good may come DESPITE the evil done...this is called grace.

 

[homwardbound]

So what I have deduced is this:

The Old Testament, the physical laws, and the evil and destruction that was present, were all God laying the groundwork so he could be glorified. God was plowing the field, breaking the hard clods of dirt, and conditioning the soil to be ready for the seeds. The prophets of old planted seeds along the way. Even still, this happens on a personal basis from person to person, like a smaller echo of the greater.

When Jesus arrived, he continued to plant seeds as well as watered them so that they might grow. He says that the wheat will grow among the chaff until harvest day, when the chaff will be cut down and thrown into the fire to be burned while the wheat is gathered into his barn.

We are currently in the time of growing in the field and waiting on the day of harvest when God returns to judge mankind. At that time, those who have followed and believed will be gathered into his barn, while all those who refused will be cast into the fire.

It’s plain for me to see that evil actually was part of God’s plan somehow and I also recognized that this does NOT make God evil in any way. Its existence is for a reason, and it is not to condemn, but to bring salvation and understanding to an otherwise helpless creation. This is a seemingly paradoxical outlook, but the truth is really there for anyone who looks.

I see it as when one knows good and evil and thus has free choice and chooses God over evil then by free choice he have chosen and I can say by this that God does love me, and if I chose not to believe, I can't say I did not know, having free choice. If God had never allowed fro us to know the difference of good and Evil, we would have just been puppets.
Had eaten from the tree of life, and would not have ever had a conscious choice. Puppets that would have been. How can I if I have the dominion over someone else, say I love them unless I give them the conscious choice to trust me or not?
And so this is God.
Now all destruction that is shown in the first Testament of God's Love, and expanded on to being fulfilled in Christ is God going against those that are selfish to themselves and only those that they choose to love.
Against Egypt, Egypt, was against free will of others, God's chosen ones, because of Abraham. Noah's time read the story, God regretted making mankind and did destroy the world, because all mankind was doing was harming others, taking away others free will. Same as in Sodom and Gomorrah. Free will is what God gave to all mankind, So think for a second. Does anyone then have any right to take away anyone else's free will. We have the right to share between each other and leave it at that.

 

[ForthAngel]

Doing evil never causes good. Good may come DESPITE the evil done...this is called grace.

You are right. I'm not saying evil causes good. I am saying because of evil, we are made aware of good. I think this is what Paul means by "5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) 6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?"

I'm not saying saying evil causes good. I am saying because of evil we are made aware that good is there and right and just. And as homewardbound states, this is what gives us freewill and choice. Evil was necessary, or salvation wouldn't have been an option cuz we would not learn to rely on God in order to be saved in the first place.

I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: [SUP]6 [/SUP]That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.
[SUP]7[/SUP]I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

[SUP]8[/SUP]Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the Lord have created it.

 

[ForthAngel]

I'm also not saying God is evil. But before I had that thought, that it was a possibility, like so many others here. I was trying to explain why he isn't, even though he created it. It doesn't make God evil, nor does it mean he causes evil. he merely put it there. Creation has the choice to embrace it or not, and by witnessing this evil, mankind has an alternative and his Grace is more glorified through Christ, whose testimony would not been to any effect had evil not existed to need him here int he first place.

 

[NiceneCreed]

Just some stuff I’ve learned while doing my studies.

Some people like to think God is cruel because of things that happened in the Old Testament. Even I fell prey to this thought hundreds, maybe thousands of times before. This causes a lot of doubts about God and his nature. I think I’ve got a valid way of reasoning all of the acts of God in the Old Testament though and I’m hoping it makes sense to others.

Isaiah 28:24-26 says:

24 Doth the plowman plow all day to sow? Doth he open and break the clods of his ground?
25 When he hath made plain the face thereof, doth he not cast abroad the fitches, and scatter the cumin, and cast in the principal wheat and the appointed barley and the rye in their place?
26 For his God doth instruct him to discretion and doth teach him.

The Bible, especially when Jesus is giving a parable, we as humans are often referred to as plants, trees, seeds, and that we can bear fruit. Jesus also refers to the earth as a field, and that the wheat will grow with the chaff until harvest time.

I think the entire timeline of the bible can be reflected as a farmer plowing and breaking the ground of his field , then scattering seeds in that field, and eventually harvest time. The Old Testament times were a time of plowing and preparing the field for the farmer to plant his crops. Hard clods of dirt had to be broken, and the labor was much more difficult than the rest. Plowing the fields (especially manually) is the hardest part (physically) of farming.

Times were hard then. There was a reason for such rules (physical obedience to the law), and destruction on a massive scale (breaking the hard clods of the field). This was to prepare the world for the sewer of the seeds (the prophets and Jesus). There was another reason as well for the physical law and the hardships, but I will get to that in my next post. It will also offer an explanation into the nature of sin, wickedness, and unrighteousness and why it is actually necessary.

This is really more of a theodicy than anything else. Perhaps we should take some other verses into consideration which discuss God's character; just a thought.

P.S. If you would like, I can post a simple theodicy that I wrote, and it might just give you some fresh ideas of what direction you should take concerning this topic.


Grace and Peace!

 

[ForthAngel]

I actually had to look up the definition for that word, and yeah this does seem to fall into that category. That wasn't the basis of my post. I'm not really trying to prove anything either, just my personal thoughts. I'd be interested in other verses being posted and even seeing your theodicy

 

[homwardbound]

I actually had to look up the definition for that word, and yeah this does seem to fall into that category. That wasn't the basis of my post. I'm not really trying to prove anything either, just my personal thoughts. I'd be interested in other verses being posted and even seeing your theodicy

I see God training you and showing you through to his truth beyond good and evil, where it is that you are in belief, having been shown both good and Evil, moving you on through to the righteousness in God, the Peace in God, and the joy that is past Human wisdom, and knowledge
Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1. 1 Corinthians 3:6
   I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
   
2. 1 Corinthians 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.