Government Policy And Marriage

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Donkeyfish07

Guest
#1
#1
This post is a little different than the type of posts you see on marriage around forums lately. Right now the big debate is about homosexual marriage and whether the government should allow it or not. That's not really the issue I'm posting about though and I'd appreciate it if gay marriage wasn't discussed in this particular thread (There's plenty of those going around right now).

Even regular marriage, for it to be considered legal.....you have to have a permit or marriage license...all that good stuff. Why is marriage (purely heterosexual marriages) something that we have to get permission from the government for at all in the first place anyway? I'm of the opinion that if a heterosexual couple wanted to get married and had a couple of witnesses and had a pastor marry them......It's a legitimate marriage . There seems to be this perception that it isn't legitimate (and I guess in the U.S. "Legal" sense of the word it would be true) unless you also have paperwork that is provided to you by the state (And I'm pretty sure you also have to pay fees for it). It seems the only thing that keeps this system we have going is that people just submit to the status quo and voluntarily ask the government for permission.

My general question for you guys is......Is it necessary in your opinion for the government to grant you a certificate or license to marry for the marriage to be legitimate in the eyes of God, or are you of the opinion that it doesn't matter one way or the other what the governmental position on regulation/legitimacy is?
 
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Ugly

Guest
#2
#2
Donkeyfish07 said:
This post is a little different than the type of posts you see on marriage around forums lately. Right now the big debate is about homosexual marriage and whether the government should allow it or not. That's not really the issue I'm posting about though and I'd appreciate it if gay marriage wasn't discussed in this particular thread (There's plenty of those going around right now).

Even regular marriage, for it to be considered legal.....you have to have a permit or marriage license...all that good stuff. Why is marriage (purely heterosexual marriages) something that we have to get permission from the government for at all in the first place anyway? I'm of the opinion that if a heterosexual couple wanted to get married and had a couple of witnesses and had a pastor marry them......It's a legitimate marriage . There seems to be this perception that it isn't legitimate (and I guess in the U.S. "Legal" sense of the word it would be true) unless you also have paperwork that is provided to you by the state (And I'm pretty sure you also have to pay fees for it). It seems the only thing that keeps this system we have going is that people just submit to the status quo and voluntarily ask the government for permission.

My general question for you guys is......Is it necessary in your opinion for the government to grant you a certificate or license to marry for the marriage to be legitimate in the eyes of God, or are you of the opinion that it doesn't matter one way or the other what the governmental position on regulation/legitimacy is?
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These 'government' problems are to prove evidence of marriage, and to provide legal precedents in the event of deaths or divorces, or other issues that may arise legally.
I also believe it's good because how easy is it to say 'ok, we're married' now... then turn around and make excuses for how you aren't married because there is nothing official to prove it, and end the relationship? It makes the marriage a bigger commitment than just 'saying' you're married. If every person who dated, just wanted to 'get married' in front of others, divorce rates would multiply countless times. And divorces are bad enough as it is.

Besides, the bible does say we are to follow the laws of the land, and the law requires us to make a legal notice of marriage, especially if we want the benefits of a marriage (insurance, etc). I see people who refuse to abide by legal means of marriage as more of looking for less committed version of marriage. Otherwise what difference does it make to you that the government wants it legal in their eyes as well?
 
Fenner

Fenner

Senior Member
#3
Jan 26, 2013
7,507
111
0
#3
I agree with Ugly. I think it's important to have a legal record of a marriage.
 
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Siberian_Khatru

Guest
#4
#4
Ugly said:
then turn around and make excuses for how you aren't married because there is nothing official to prove it, and end the relationship? It makes the marriage a bigger commitment than just 'saying' you're married.
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What a sad and pathetic notion, though; that commitment is less likely to be committed unless it's inscribed.
 
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kenisyes

Guest
#5
#5
Simple answer to the OP - absolutely not. There is no scripture requiring, recommending, or giving an example of, a marriage performed by either clergy or by a governmental official, and thus no reason to get permission for such a service. You sign a contract with the father, consummate the marriage, and throw a party. Many Jews still follow the custom of framing a copy of the signed contract and displaying it in their home. The party is the legal publication of the intention of marraige.

I agree with everyone on here that a written legal record is a really good idea, for the sake of inheritance, name change, and all those other things. Pennsylvania requires only cohabitation and any legal document (even the lease or checking account) with both names on it. And you should see the trouble they have when a live-in girlfriend wants to leave and wants the common property divided like in a divorce! But it is not required by God.
 
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Porthos

Banned
#6
Apr 15, 2013
236
1
0
#6
kenisyes said:
Simple answer to the OP - absolutely not. There is no scripture requiring, recommending, or giving an example of, a marriage performed by either clergy or by a governmental official, and thus no reason to get permission for such a service. You sign a contract with the father, consummate the marriage, and throw a party. Many Jews still follow the custom of framing a copy of the signed contract and displaying it in their home. The party is the legal publication of the intention of marraige.

I agree with everyone on here that a written legal record is a really good idea, for the sake of inheritance, name change, and all those other things. Pennsylvania requires only cohabitation and any legal document (even the lease or checking account) with both names on it. And you should see the trouble they have when a live-in girlfriend wants to leave and wants the common property divided like in a divorce! But it is not required by God.
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I bet girls in Pennsylvania are all rich from their six 'husbands' and the dudes are all out looking for pennies in wells lol.
 
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kessy001

Guest
#7
#7
I agree with Ugly. Whichever way a marriage is done, I think its important to legalize it. This would prevent certain complications in case of an unfortunate, unforeseen event. The age we live in now totally necessitates it everyday we hear and see how desperately wicked a heart that isn't sold out to Christ is.

Where i come from, we take legalizing marriage very seriously because there has been a lot of cases where a widow, while still mourning her loss, is stripped of her husband's possessions by her husband's family and left on her own to fend for herself and the kids. It's very difficult to fight this wickedness if the marriage isn't legalized.
 
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kenisyes

Guest
#8
#8
Porthos said:
I bet girls in Pennsylvania are all rich from their six 'husbands' and the dudes are all out looking for pennies in wells lol.
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Actually, not that I could tell in the five years or so I lived there.
 
maxwel

maxwel

Senior Member
#10
Apr 18, 2013
9,367
2,444
113
#10
Let me put this in different terms.

Try telling your sweet Christian girlfriend that you don't want to actually get married, but that you DO want her to sleep in your bed and give you lots of good lovin. Oh, and tell her you think it's probably ok with God.

Just try that out, and see how that works.
Oh, don't forget her mother. Be sure to tell her mother all about it.

One more thing - when you talk to her mother... wear a helmet.

: )
 
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Donkeyfish07

Guest
#11
#11
kenisyes said:
Simple answer to the OP - absolutely not. There is no scripture requiring, recommending, or giving an example of, a marriage performed by either clergy or by a governmental official, and thus no reason to get permission for such a service. You sign a contract with the father, consummate the marriage, and throw a party. Many Jews still follow the custom of framing a copy of the signed contract and displaying it in their home. The party is the legal publication of the intention of marraige.

I agree with everyone on here that a written legal record is a really good idea, for the sake of inheritance, name change, and all those other things. Pennsylvania requires only cohabitation and any legal document (even the lease or checking account) with both names on it. And you should see the trouble they have when a live-in girlfriend wants to leave and wants the common property divided like in a divorce! But it is not required by God.
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Thanks for the answer Kenis (Everybody else as well). This is just one of the many random thoughts I have when I think about how things are run. There's definitely advantages and protections for people that make sure they do everything legally, I was just curious about personal beliefs on whether it was legitimate or not if paperwork was absent or ignored.
 
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