I cannot take the bible literally?

[Strickalator]

Greetings in Christ Jesus everyone, I have been trying to understand why this soon to be pastor is telling me all this stuff. None of it really makes sense and yet they are about to be ordained and have told me that after years of education and study they accept following as truth:

Adam and Eve were not the first humans and Satan did not tempt them and there was no original sin.

Jonah was not swallowed by a whale

The Great Flood never happened and Noah never built an Ark

Mary was not a Virgin and instead had sex with Joseph , in order for Jesus to be from the line of David.

I am really baffled by all this, how can any of what they are saying make sense?

They tell me that most of the stories are not meant to be taken literally and yet they still somehow get truth out of it and that's all that matters.

They just recently started arguing with me about Mary. I could use some help in getting things cleared up for myself and for them.

Here is what they said about Mary:

This is because you are reading the New Testament. As I mentioned earlier, the Greeks took the Hebrew word of virgin and assumed it meant the same as virgin in Greek. Which is does not.

In Isaiah, the Hebrew for virgin is Almah. Almah literally means "sexually mature female of marriageable age" which equates to someone who has just became of age to conceive...puberty. About the age of 12. It does not mean someone who never had sex. It means a young girl who just went through puberty.

Also, if one were to take the Old Testament prophecy to heart where the Messiah came from the Davidic line then Jesus..if he was conceived through the Holy Spirit and not Joseph, then the Messiah was not through the Davidic line as Joseph had nothing to do with the procreation of Jesus. If Joseph did have sex with Mary then Jesus is through the Davidic line.

The reason why some Christians insists that Jesus was born of a virgin is because they assume only a perfect person like Jesus could only be born from a virgin....and not through regular means. However, in my opinion, this puts God in a box. Why cannot God conceive his Spirit of Christ into two people who made love?

Now, you would probably say "Well if you don't want to put God in a box then why don't you believe Jesus came from a virgin?" Well, my reason is because the Old Testament never said the Messiah came from a sexual virgin in the Messiah prophecies.

If the prophecies was stressing that the Christ child would come from a sexual virgin then the Text would say "Betulah." Betulah is the Hebrew word for a sexual virgin. The Messiah prophecies of the virgin never used Betulah it used Almah.

I have more quotes of what they said to me about other things, but I wanted to figure these out one at a time.

 

[Indubitably]

:>) Would be pastor.. :-( Me running from Would be pastor..

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

to make a long story short...the person is a false teacher...

 

[BarlyGurl]

Greetings in Christ Jesus everyone, I have been trying to understand why this soon to be pastor is telling me all this stuff. None of it really makes sense and yet they are about to be ordained and have told me that after years of education and study they accept following as truth:

Adam and Eve were not the first humans and Satan did not tempt them and there was no original sin.

Jonah was not swallowed by a whale

The Great Flood never happened and Noah never built an Ark

Mary was not a Virgin and instead had sex with Joseph , in order for Jesus to be from the line of David.

I am really baffled by all this, how can any of what they are saying make sense?

They tell me that most of the stories are not meant to be taken literally and yet they still somehow get truth out of it and that's all that matters.

They just recently started arguing with me about Mary. I could use some help in getting things cleared up for myself and for them.

Here is what they said about Mary:



I have more quotes of what they said to me about other things, but I wanted to figure these out one at a time.

RUN FAST, RUN FAR.... RUN!!!!!

 

[Strickalator]

What Can i say to them to get them back on track?

 

[JimJimmers]

What Can i say to them to get them back on track?

I have wondered that for a long time. If anything ever works, I'll let you know.

 

[Geometar]

Greetings in Christ Jesus everyone, I have been trying to understand why this soon to be pastor is telling me all this stuff. None of it really makes sense and yet they are about to be ordained and have told me that after years of education and study they accept following as truth:

Adam and Eve were not the first humans and Satan did not tempt them and there was no original sin.

Jonah was not swallowed by a whale

The Great Flood never happened and Noah never built an Ark

Mary was not a Virgin and instead had sex with Joseph , in order for Jesus to be from the line of David.

I am really baffled by all this, how can any of what they are saying make sense?

They tell me that most of the stories are not meant to be taken literally and yet they still somehow get truth out of it and that's all that matters.

They just recently started arguing with me about Mary. I could use some help in getting things cleared up for myself and for them.

Here is what they said about Mary:



I have more quotes of what they said to me about other things, but I wanted to figure these out one at a time.

If u want to know concept of Virgin Mary(Theotokos) read holy fathers of the Church and run from those who says even a letter different!

 

[Jon4TheCross]

All you have to do with a person like this, is to challenge them to take the next step. Many are confused, and being confused does not send you to hell. To show them that they are confused is easy, because many perspectives which are wrong are easily shown to be wrong when a person points out the everlasting priesthood (Christianity). If someone claims to have access to the holiest of all, and agrees that Christians should tithe to Christians, then they are confused. I'll bet this person preaches tithe if he was taught in a bible college.

 

[nathan3]

Yes all those things in the bible Did happen. So it has litteraly happened in reality. So you can take that to the bank. Study and even research archaeology and history to find that its true if you need to. Expand you understanding of these things.

 

[WolfInOxHide]

years of education and study

Is good for nothing unless one takes up the stick and emulates Christ.

Adam and Eve were not the first humans and Satan did not tempt them and there was no original sin.

Well, they at least represent the first two to fall, if not the first to exist.

Jonah was not swallowed by a whale

It has been proven scientifically possible, from what I understand, so why must they doubt?

The Great Flood never happened and Noah never built an Ark

He can see the ark for himself in Turkey, along with plenty of accessory proof.

Mary was not a Virgin and instead had sex with Joseph , in order for Jesus to be from the line of David.

There is no logical problem with Mary having ancestors on multiple lines. No need to have sex with Joseph just to get some "David DNA." Jesus could very well have had blood from all 12 tribes plus who knows what else. You might also.
You can read the proto-evangelium of James if you want the nitty gritty details about her virginity. It's short reading. Do not confuse with similarly named "james" books.
Joseph had no desire to even take Mary, especially to have sex with her. This is the exact reason he was chosen by "drawing straws", i.e. the Holy Spirit, versus the other men in town, some of which were probably drooling to get her. He was the only one of them that would most certainly not defile her before her destiny was filled.
She was "gynecologically examined" before and after by two witnesses.
Once considered for catholic canon to exonerate Mary, this book was not accepted because it has other points they don't agree with, but does not contradict current "canon".

They tell me that most of the stories are not meant to be taken literally and yet they still somehow get truth out of it and that's all that matters.

Every "word" of scripture is to be divided, spiritual and physical. Once you start getting the spiritual, you can see the physical was sometimes only used as "an image". But that don't mean it didn't happen.

They just recently started arguing with me about Mary. I could use some help in getting things cleared up for myself and for them.

It is scientifically possible for Mary's egg to have split off the gender chromosome "on it's own" (under miraculous influence by the Spirit, among other ways) without a contributing sperm cell. The egg cell only waits for the completed gender "signal" to start splitting. It does not need the rest of the father contributed chromosomes. This would have physically made Jesus a male mirror image of His physical mother.
With miraculous intervention, it doesn't even matter that it's scientifically possible.
A rather small thing considering the miracles that Jesus did.
Ask him if Jesus really did miracles. If he says "yes", then he witnesses against himself and renders his goal of disproving miracles trivial.
If he says "no", then he might as well proclaim himself as the messiah and go buy a can of silly string to prove his anointing.
Spiritually, virginity is representative of a person who has never fallen for false doctrine, never been "penetrated" by the deceiver. It would therefore seem no surprise that he neither understands nor embraces the concept of virginity.

Time to shake some dust off your feet I think and just entertain this guy like the traffic cops at waffle house that claim to be secret ninja government agents.

But remember, we are all being deceived in some way or another. This is just whatever deception the guy needs in order to bring him around eventually.

"I will answer them according to the multitude of their idols."
In other words, errant beliefs will be used ironically as part of the correction.
"I AM what I AM"
"What you seek is what you get"
"Careful what you wish for"

Peace.

 

[smithbr8]

But how do you know which parts to take literally and which parts are ok to interpret?

 

[Jon4TheCross]

But how do you know which parts to take literally and which parts are ok to interpret?

There is a literal/natural/fleshly interpretation that is possible, and there is a spirit interpretation which is possible. If both can be true at the same time and not contradict any scripture, then both are probably true, and it's a safe perspective to believe that both are true, until you know.

An example is this:
Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Ok, so we know that these two perspectives exist, cause we definitely all have the flesh perspective down pretty well, cause we're born with it. Here is the example of three days:

Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Joh 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

The underlined words can have both a literal and spiritual meaning. Destroy this temple can be talking about the physical body of Jesus, and also us. Three days can be talking about the time we go by, and the time God goes by currently, and both can be true at the same time. If both are true, we're approaching the third day in less than 30 years, and I expect the body of Christ to be much different (at least those professing to be the Everlasting Priesthood/Temple/United Body of Christ).

 

[WolfInOxHide]

But how do you know which parts to take literally and which parts are ok to interpret?

By seeking the spiritual first, then the physical parts will make more sense.
Whatever physical thing you encounter in scripture, observe it's basic behavior.
What is the thing, emotion, experience, etc. in your Spirit, that behaves inside you and others the same way a "tree" or "fire" or "sword" behaves in the world?
And they never change meanings from cover to cover. This is how you can know that you have understood one properly. If the "definition" doesn't fit everywhere you read it, you might have the wrong "definition."
Example, what does a light do in the world? Allows you to see.
It does the same thing in your head.
What does an earthquake do in the world? Shakes things.
It does the same thing in your head.

When early man began to speak, they didn't have a phrase like "rampant worthless thoughts", and you can't show someone a "rampant worthless thought". Instead, you point to a patch of weeds then point to your head or someone else's and say "weeds." Once someone else understands, everyone uses that word for that concept because it makes sense, until we get "too smart" and muck up our language.
A graven image is when we purposefully, or negligently assign a meaning to something instead of observing God's creation for it's meaning. Graven imagery has a much less (though valid nonetheless) application to a six armed Buddha statue, as it does to saying errantly for example that "daily bread" represents "daily bible study."

The "WORD" isn't "Jesus" proper, the "word" is the physical manifestation of something spiritual, or the reverse.
Which is how God became flesh and walked among us.
Likewise, the "word" isn't the "bible" proper, it's the effect or process or way of those spiritual things being manifested from the mouth or on paper.
It is accurate to hold up a bible and say "this is the word of God", but most people don't understand why it is accurate.

You don't need to know any of this to follow Jesus.

But if you seek, ask, and knock instead of guessing or reading "left behind" books, you will be blessed.

Peace.

 

[WolfInOxHide]

I want to add, be careful not to worship these gifts of "word of knowledge" or "word of wisdom" above our Father. That would be something like "revelation worship", "sun worship", which you can see all around us exampled in the overwhelming obsession with interpreting the end times instead of following Jesus.

Peace.

 

[crossnote]

Greetings in Christ Jesus everyone, I have been trying to understand why this soon to be pastor is telling me all this stuff. None of it really makes sense and yet they are about to be ordained and have told me that after years of education and study they accept following as truth:

Adam and Eve were not the first humans and Satan did not tempt them and there was no original sin.

Jonah was not swallowed by a whale

The Great Flood never happened and Noah never built an Ark

Mary was not a Virgin and instead had sex with Joseph , in order for Jesus to be from the line of David.

I am really baffled by all this, how can any of what they are saying make sense?

They tell me that most of the stories are not meant to be taken literally and yet they still somehow get truth out of it and that's all that matters.

They just recently started arguing with me about Mary. I could use some help in getting things cleared up for myself and for them.

Here is what they said about Mary:



I have more quotes of what they said to me about other things, but I wanted to figure these out one at a time.

Ask this soon to be pastor why he wants to go into an occupation whose foundation is built on myths and falsities.
This is crass liberalism and in the words of the late Walter Martin...'run, do not walk to the nearest exit.'

 

[Shilo]

Many time is the word of God a prophecy is hidden in another prophecy. This is one reason when looking at prophecies that have been fulfilled if everything in that prophecy is not done. Then you know there is still future fulfillment coming. There is a prophecy here of two babies and two different women.
Read Isaiah 7-8
1 first woman.
This is a message to Ahaz and the house of Judah
The Lord said to Ahaz through Isaiah that the war planed against Judah would not prevail. He is told if he will not believe, he will not be established. The Lord wants to give Ahaz courage and peace to believe what he has been told. The Lord tells him to ask for a sign. He does not ask for a sign so The Lord God gives him one.
13 Then he said, “Hear now, O house of David! Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will you weary my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a Almah shall conceive and bear a son.
This is a sign to them at that time.
For before the Child shall know to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land that you dread will be forsaken by both her kings. 17 The Lord will bring the king of Assyria upon you and your people and your father’s house—days that have not come since the day that Ephraim departed from Judah.”
Moreover the Lord said to me, “Take a large scroll, and write on it with a man’s pen concerning Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz.[a] 2 And I will take for Myself faithful witnesses to record, Uriah the priest and Zechariah the son of Jeberechiah.”
3 Then I (Isaiah) went to the prophetess ( his wife ), and she conceived and bore a son. Then the Lord said to me, “Call his name Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz (the remnant shall return); 4 for before the child shall have knowledge to cry ‘My father’ and ‘My mother,’ the riches of Damascus and the spoil of Samaria will be taken away before the king of Assyria.”

2 woman Mary
This is a message to the house of David. Yeshua / Jesus is from the House of David. This message is to the House of Yeshua.
13 Then he said, “Hear now, O house of David! Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will you weary my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a Almah shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.[ 15 Curds and honey He shall eat, that He may know to refuse the evil and choose the good. 16 For before the Child shall know to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land that you dread will be forsaken by both her kings. 17 The Lord will bring the king of Assyria upon you and your people and your father’s house—days that have not come since the day that Ephraim departed from Judah.”
The word Almah in this verse has a revelation in it that if you do not read and write Hebrew you may not know. The letter Mem in this verse is written in the form of a closed letter. This is not done in the middle of a word. The letter Mem also has the meaning womb. It is say that this Almah will conceive with a closed womb that shows written in the text she was a virgin. l His name Immanuel (God with us) Show there are two babies here. In Isaiah 8 the name of the other child was Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz (the remnant shall return). This and the fact that the other women already had a son shows she was not a virgin and that there are two prophecies here.