I just realized I'm very confused about everything

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starfield

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
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48
#21
Why/How did Jesus gain authority OVER the devil?
Satan's judgment was pronounced at the Garden of Eden through the seed of the woman, throughout Christ's earthly ministry He had authority over him, and at Calvary and Christ's resurrection he was conquered. John 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world [Satan] is judged.


Why is there no forgiveness of sins without the shedding of Blood?
In the OT, forgiveness required sacrifice of a substitute which only provided temporary covering for sin and simply foreshadowed Christ's atonement (the new and better covenant). Now it is only the precious blood of Christ that purges our conscience from dead works whereby we are forgiven and eternally redeemed.

Heb 9:12-14
Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?


why was Jesus' death so long-horrible-drawn-out-and long

Gal 4:4-5 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.


ok but how did the cross just free mankind?
we have the Spirit of God INSIDE of us BECAUSE Jesus died on the cross.
but Why did Jesus have to die so we could have what Jesus had?
Christ purchased our freedom through His substitutionary death so that by us dying with Him in repentance and faith we are delivered from the influence of sin, self, and Satan. We are also given the Holy Spirit as our inner assurance that we belong to Christ and enablement to do God's will (Phil 2:13).
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Col 1:13
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:


How? How did that forgive us?
God despises sin and all workers of iniquity and their righteous deeds are nothing but filthy rags before Him. Therefore Jesus' substitutionary atonement is the only means in which the unrighteous can be declared righteous in God's sight. Imputed righteousness is God accrediting the penitent sinner as righteous because of their faith in Jesus' finished work; it is essentially God treating them as if they never sinned.
Rom 4:5-8
5. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7. Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

2 Cor 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Phil 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:


Why is Jesus dying in my place allowed? (im not saying i don't enjoy it, i am just wanting to know how God sees this justly.)
Who on earth was sinless to carry the atonement for mankind than the sinless Lamb of God (Christ)? Only Christ was capable of dying for vile sinners. By repenting and exercising faith in His sacrifice, the redemption He paid will be appropriated to them.

Deuteronomy 24:16
Parents are not to be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their parents; each will die for their own sin.
That verse has nothing to do with Christ's atonement.

 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
4,021
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#22
Owen,

You brought up several questions that I can't take the time to address individually, but here are my thoughts that address some of your general concerns.

Adam & Eve had a perfect, pure relationship with God. There was no disobedience, no sin, no separation, no death. But A&E messed that up. God then gave them consequences for that sin. And that has been the same for mankind since then. (Thank you Adam & Eve. We appreciate it;))

God's heart was still that mankind could enjoy the kind of relationship with Him that we wanted, but the sin, the separation needed to be addressed. God set up a series of sacrifices and offerings to bring His people back to Him when the fell short. There was always the death of an innocent animal. But check out this sin offering God instructs His people to do in Leviticus 16.

Leviticus 16:9-10 "Then Aaron shall offer the goat on which the lot for the Lord fell, and make it a sin offering. 10 But the goat on which the lot for the scapegoat fell shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make atonement upon it, to send it into the wilderness as the scapegoat."

The death and life of an innocent animal (Jesus/Yeshua in the Old Testment!) forgave Israel and brought them into good standing with God.

Now, the Holy Spirit didn't show up for the first time in Acts 2. Do a search of all of the verses of God's Spirit in the OT, and tell me if you don't see the Holy Spirit in there; Israel had the Holy Spirit in them as well. Yeshua/Jesus' death on the stake/cross was the once for all sacrifice, so that His people/Israel didn't need to continue doing blood sacrifices everyday.

Why all of this? Why all of the sacrifices? Yeshua's life, death and resurrection? Because God made us. Why would He make us if He didn't want to have a relationship with us? If that wasn't the case, He could have been content with just making and hanging out with Llamas. But for whatever reason, He wanted a relationship with Mankind, and so He created us. When we are able to enter into that right-standing relationship with God, then we experience a pure life in His image. Not necessarily perfect, but pure (There's a difference). I think that more often than not, that's when we experience those miracles, those revelations.

And why is Jesus' death allowed? Because God set up the system, Jesus IS God, and besides, He didn't even die! God didn't break the command in Deut. 24:16, because Yeshua didn't die!

That's when we get back to the concept of the scapegoat in Leviticus 16. There were 2 goats: 1 died, 1 lived. There were 2 offerings with Yeshua, He died, yet He also lived. There are 2 offerings in you. 1 died- your flesh, your sin, and 1 lived- Your spirit, your newly redeemed self.

I'm not sure if this helps at all. But as always, pray about everything you read here and see if any of it bears witness with the Holy Spirit. Remember, it should always be God teaching you, not man. Does He speak through men? Yes, but make sure it is God teaching you His truth through those people.

And if any of my thoughts didn't help you, that's OK. Because working through this concept this morning gave me some good encouragement and helped me.

Have a great day!
Matt
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#23
Go back to Genesis and get started on the right foot. When Adam sinned and he knew he sinned Adam was afraid to face God. Adam made a covering for his nakedness which only now recognized out of leaves. God was not satisfied with the leaves and slew animals and made a covering out of their skins. God chose a blood offering to cover sin. Why blood? Because life is in the blood. Shed blood satisfies the word of God that the soul that sinneth shall surely die. We also see the substitutionary death of a lamb for man's sin. God provided a lamb for Cain when he brought an offering of the first fruits of the ground. Able brought the required offering and that is why his brother slew him.
The body of Christ was conceived without sin via the virgin birth. His body was an acceptable sacrifice because it know no sin. Christ willed His Spirit to leave His body on the cross. All the suffering in the body was suffering that man had treasured up against himself. Christ endured it all that we would not be required to do so. This was purposed by God ever before God created man.
God's justice demands that the penalty for sin be paid. God's mercy provides that Christ makes the payment for all who will receive Him. Full evidence of God's satisfaction is seen in the bodily resurrection of Christ.
Isaiah 53 gives clear evidence that Messiah would suffer for mankind before He would reign on the earth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#24
skinski,

i'm not going to quibble over a couple of issues in this particular post, and am not going to go into the serious problems i see with your theology and soteriology from other posts (foundational problems, we'll never agree on),.....because:

this is the best post i've seen you make.
good one
.

:)
zone
I was thinking the same thing. And I was close to jumping in over a couple little things too...

Good one Skinski
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#25


In the OT, forgiveness required sacrifice of a substitute which only provided temporary covering for sin and simply foreshadowed Christ's atonement (the new and better covenant). Now it is only the precious blood of Christ that purges our conscience from dead works whereby we are forgiven and eternally redeemed.

Heb 9:12-14
Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?



Gal 4:4-5 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.





I wondered that too. Why the blood?

Leviticus 17:11 [SUP] [/SUP]For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

In addition to Hebrews 9:12-14 that you posted, I would say that is powerful.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#26
I was thinking the same thing. And I was close to jumping in over a couple little things too...

Good one Skinski
haha Gramps
ol' skinski's gonna be like...what?!

 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#28
Not sure if this will help or be more confusing, but here goes;

A online preacher said this once, to explain the bit about Jesus and the holy spirit:

He was using a parable of a plumber / water pipes
The idea was that the pipes is the holy spirit, our link to have access to Living Water from God.

If you are a plumber, and need to put together two different types of metal, one "bad" and one "good" (sorry, can't remember the types), you need something in between. If you do not, the "bad" metal will errode away parts of the good metal, and you will have a leak.

Jesus is that piece. He was needed so that we can "connect to" God. If He had not died on the cross, the water would be contaminated by our sin.

......

The penalty of sin is death, the OT had animal sacrifices, but that was not enough, so Jesus laid down his (perfect, uncontaminated) life.

The difference between the parable and the us - Jesus - God relationship, is that God makes us new, so the "pipes" are all clean.
 

FIRE_of_ELIJAH

Senior Member
Feb 5, 2013
387
19
18
#29
How did the death of Jesus bring the Spirit of God to believers? Don't say its because we believe.

What is an easy way to explain it?

Why/How did Jesus gain authority OVER the devil?

Why is there no forgiveness of sins without the shedding of Blood?

why was Jesus' death so long-horrible-drawn-out-and long
ok precious young child. You cannot get all the answers here. If I tell you why and how, you will only be more confused since this forum is exposed to many different ideas and some are not even from the Bible. The more we explain, the more you got confused.
Go and find a place that you can talk to God in an intimate way. Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal Himself to you. Keep praying and read the Bible if you have time, begin with the gospel of John to revelation. You can also read old testament begin with Genesis, and you will be amazed how God created everything and how He deals with His chosen. I love the story of moses, Joshua, King david and the story of all the prophets especially Elijah, Elisha and daniel.

Young child, I see your situation , you are hungry for God, you want to know Him in the most intimate way. this is better sign for your growth in the spiritual realm. one day. you will experience more miracles that you have not even imagined. God is calling you .

You don't need to reply

God bless
 

starfield

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
58
48
#30
I wondered that too. Why the blood?

Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

In addition to Hebrews 9:12-14 that you posted, I would say that is powerful.
Yes, Leviticus 17:11 shows the significance of the blood. There is life in the blood; it plays an important role in the body such as transporting oxygen and nutrients to fuel every single cell. Similarly, the shed blood of the Lamb quickens and nourishes the soul and imparts eternal life to those who believe. :)
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#31
Why/How did Jesus gain authority OVER the devil?

Why is there no forgiveness of sins without the shedding of Blood?
First Part - The showdown in the desert...

Luk 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,
Luk 4:2 Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.
Luk 4:3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.
Luk 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
Luk 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
Luk 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
Luk 4:7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.
Luk 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Luk 4:9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:
Luk 4:10 For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee:
Luk 4:11 And in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Luk 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
Luk 4:13 And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season.

The Devil threw every shell on the ship at Him but He resisted and did not sin.

Here is where Christ actually beat the Devil adn qualified to replace him as world ruler.

Second Part - The penalty for sin is death...

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

Jesus Christ bled out on the stake for our sins, He was sinless and as Creator, His life was worth more than all that He created. He shed His blood on our behalf.

God's Law is just and it requires that the books be balanced. He does not compromise in the slightest. Sin beings death and must be paid for. Grace is the truth that Christ willingly paid that price in our stead so that we do nto have to die.
 
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