IF ANY MAN WILL COME AFTER ME........

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p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#1
Matthew 16:24) Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

I've been giving a lot of thought to this Scripture, and it presents many questions, and possibly many problems for us if we are to obey His words.

First thought is: I have read some Historians who say that Jesus probably only carried the "cross beam" of His cross........because the Roman Soldiers left the "I" beam in the ground all the time, and lowered it to put someone on the cross, or take them off. So, do we take up "only" the "cross beam," or do we take up the entire cross?

[FYI: Just so we are all on one page here........the "cross beam" is the horizontal beam and the "I" beam is the vertical beam of the cross..........]

Second thought is: Some Historians believe the Cross was constructed from the Dogwood tree, and that the Dogwood was "cursed" after His crucifixion, and can no longer be used to construct a Cross. If true (or even if not), what kind of tree do we use to construct our Cross that we are to take up?

This all being done, are we to take up our Cross daily? Where ever we go, are we to take it with us? Seriously, think about all the problems that will cause. How do we get it into the car? Imagine all the comments at work, and where do we keep it when at work? Or imagine going to the Grocery Store or Wal-Mart with it........I would think the problems would be overwhelming would they not?

Third thought is: Do we affix ourselves to the Cross, or just carry it over our shoulder? I would think just carry it, because it would take some assistance to affix ourselves, and un-affix ourselves every time we had to during the day.......it would surely present some logistical problems in my opinion. Can you see how being obedient to this Commandment from Jesus would present many problems for us who strive to walk Christ-like?

Has anyone managed to figure out a way to accomplish this? If so, please share with me, so I will have some insight into how to "take up my cross, and follow Him."

 
Aug 18, 2013
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#2
Dear brother p_rehbein , don't know this can help you or not, i need help too actually, Lord Jesus, Galations 2:20 says no long i live but Christ who live in me, may we forget about do good or bad, just be happy and rejoice with Who Living In us, cares about Him with believe in to Him, Hebrews 11:6 says we have to be believe that He is when come to the Him. Read and not despise His Words, Pray for His move on earth, Thanks and Praise His Name, Share to others about Who He Is. Praise The Lord.
 
S

Saved_Forever

Guest
#3
It's figurative. It doesn't mean you MUST carry a cross as Jesus did or even a part of it. It is referring to putting your trust in him. This is a VERY SIMPLE explanation of it.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#4
It's figurative. It doesn't mean you MUST carry a cross as Jesus did or even a part of it. It is referring to putting your trust in him. This is a VERY SIMPLE explanation of it.
Ok, so what you are saying is that parts of Scripture require interpretation because they are not meant to be taken "literally."

Is this right?
 
Mar 3, 2013
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#5
Jesus is speaking of taking up our cross spiritually, rather than physically. He knew when He said it that we would be unable to physically pick up a cross and carry it around with us all say. In the same way that physical, animal sacrifices are no longer what we do, God tells us in his Word that spiritually speaking, we are to offer ourselves:

Romans 12:1 (CJB) I exhort you, therefore, brothers, in view of God's mercies, to offer yourselves as a sacrifice, living and set apart for God. This will please him; it is the logical "Temple worship" for you.
 
Feb 17, 2010
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#6
Ok, so what you are saying is that parts of Scripture require interpretation because they are not meant to be taken "literally."

Is this right?
Oh you are close, BUT, it should NEVER be PRIVATE interpretation.... When GOD REVEALS to an individual, or a group, there is NO INTERPRETAION PRIVATE... we have thousands of doctrines, because of prrivate interpretations... but only ONE DOCTRINE in GOD'S REVELATION, and HIS INTERPRETATION.... No prophecy of the Scripture is of ANY PRIVATE interpretation. 2 Peter 1:20... Just as God gave the prohecies, and Scripture so HE WILL REVEAL IT to whom HE WANTS...

There is not ONE Scripture that is not confirmed on one or more Scriptures... And it only teaches ONE INFELLIBLE DOCTRINE... ONE! WOW! we do have a SPECIAL GOD AND LORD AND WORD OF GOD... WOW!
 
Feb 17, 2010
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#7
P_rehbein, forget the cross part what about the first part... How many people do you know that deny themselves? Truly deny themselves?
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#8
To me it means one must give evrthing up and be ready to face anything for the cause of Yahshua, even death.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#9
Oh you are close, BUT, it should NEVER be PRIVATE interpretation.... When GOD REVEALS to an individual, or a group, there is NO INTERPRETAION PRIVATE... we have thousands of doctrines, because of prrivate interpretations... but only ONE DOCTRINE in GOD'S REVELATION, and HIS INTERPRETATION.... No prophecy of the Scripture is of ANY PRIVATE interpretation. 2 Peter 1:20... Just as God gave the prohecies, and Scripture so HE WILL REVEAL IT to whom HE WANTS...

There is not ONE Scripture that is not confirmed on one or more Scriptures... And it only teaches ONE INFELLIBLE DOCTRINE... ONE! WOW! we do have a SPECIAL GOD AND LORD AND WORD OF GOD... WOW!
I certainly agree that Scripture confirms the Truth of Scripture.........but your statement lends support to the idea that Scripture is to be taken "literally." Is this your belief? If not, then every person who reads Scripture has to come to a decision as to what that Scripture means do they not? And, is this not interpretation?
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,216
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#10
P_rehbein, forget the cross part what about the first part... How many people do you know that deny themselves? Truly deny themselves?
Yes, I do......... :) "know people who have done this........"
 
Feb 17, 2010
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#11
P_rehbein, Revelation is the answer.... SEEK GOD AND HIS KINGDOM AND ALL THINGS SHALL BE ADDED UNTO YOU...

Jesus said, No one knows the Father, save the Son, and no one knows the SON save the Father, and whom HE WANTS TO REVEAL IT TOO...

I believe Scripture is the Word of God, and the one I found most effective and making sence... is the KJV in English and in my AFRIKAANS home tongue, The old translation. Also these two Bibles are most ALIKE...


So I accept these two Bibles as the WORD of God.... now! God said in the beginning was the WORD. and the Word was with God and the Word was God, and the Word was made flesh.... Why would ANY person interpret Jesus? When you can SIMPLY GO TO HIM AND PART OF HIS JOB IS TO REVEAL HIMSLEF.


If God says.... HE WILL REVEAL TO WHOM HE WANTS.. do you think those people NEED ANY INTERPRETATION? If GOD REVEALS HIMSELF to a person what does that person have to INTERPRET? I mean HE HAS THE AUTHOR WITH HIM! He KNOWS the AUTHOR! HE SEES THE AITHOR not the book the AUTHOR HIMSELF...


I know God REVEALS ALL in Scripture to some. That is part of His Scripture... So thse are the ones that are APT TO TEACH.... They KNOW ALL THINGS IN SCRIPTURE... ALL! They need not interpret, they have it REVEALED!


God said that ehse people shall KNOW HIS TRUTH (WORD) and that TRUTH shall make them FREE! To know is not to interpret... Interpret can be GUESSING, but to KNOW IS TO KNOW! No guessing and NO ARGUMENT!
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#12
Cobus............I do agree that God "reveals" Himself to man........and I also enjoy the KJV, and the CJB as well...........and I believe they are the Word of God........well, ok, the "Written" Word........I believe Jesus is the "Living" Word........just saying :)

I think we are differing on what "interpretation" is/means.........maybe.......dunno for sure.

When God "reveals" to someone what a particular Scripture means, that is God interpreting Scripture to a man is it not? Much like when Jesus taught in parables, and then "interpreted" His teaching/meaning of the parable to His disciples.......yes?

The differing discussions arise when people believe that God has "revealed" His Word to them, and they have "differing" revelations of His Word, yes?

And I still wonder...........do you believe His Word is to be taken literally? Each and every word of His Word?
 
Feb 17, 2010
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#13
P-rehbein, The written Word of God becomes ALIVE when God reveals it to us... God says HIS WORD MULTIPLIED... LEt me share one Scripture God revealed to me and that written Word became ALIVE for us VERY ALIVE...

We have a lady friend, and she started to read her Bible, wanting to UNDERSTAND. Like the Enoch on the carrage... So she had a private bible study the night before about Acts 4 and Philip going to Samaria... The next morning she came to our office and said... I understand NOTHING... Then I said to her, sit down and let me read it to you... I started reading and she listened... As the words went into her ear, I could SEE how God revealed His Scripture (Word, Truth) to her... It was as if a light came on.


I could see how the Scripture of the salvation of the people in Samaria became her DOCTRINE of salvation... She literally recieved a revelation as how GOD does things... EXACTLY as she read the night before, but when the WORD was heard, it was as if GOD REVEALED Samaria to her... She NEVER doubted again how God saves and FINISHES with His Spirit in people.


Oh I read Scripture and I said... LORD I DO NOT UNDERSTAND, how can I continue in YOUR WORD, if YOU DO NOT GIVE ME UNDERSTANDING.... So I got stuck on one verse for THREE WEEKS.... Then this happened....
THere was a fella cheating me left and right, lying deceiving and really not a nice person, yet I felt I should give and give... GOd will stop the giving when HE WANTS TOO... and then one day this man came in the loading bay door and said something out loud, IMMEDIATELY the VERSE made PERFECT SENCE!!!!

MY friend the WHOLE WORD of God is being played off RIGHT IN FRONT OF US... God's Word is being done and all we have to do is LOOK AND RECOGNISE.... IF we are WISE every action made by EVERY person we see will perform some Bible verse...


So we do not have to do much interpretaion, just OBSERVATION and the WORD will play out right in front of our eyes...
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#14
Cobus, I still agree with the principal part of your comments...........so let me ask this way.........

Say you and I have a different "revelation" of a certain Scripture, does that mean one of us is not receiving that "revelation" from the Holy Spirit?

Oh, wait, I suppose I should ask, do you believe it is the Holy Spirit who imparts understanding of Scripture to us?

Ok, now back to the other question.......
 
Feb 17, 2010
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#15
God only has ONE TRUTH and ONE ANSWER TO THE SAME QUESTION... God says the member s are FITLY joined together...

My friend I have ALWAY said.. if two people differ on the Word of God BOTH ARE WRONG, or ONE is WRONG, but NEVER that both is right....

That is why God says it should not be PRIVATE interpretation... but HIS INTERPRETATION... God revelation to John about the book REVELATION, shoulf be EXACTLY the same when God reveals it to me.

God only HAS ONE TRUTH, ONE SPIRIT ans ONE BODY... and they are all OF ONE GOD!

I went to a lecture on BIBLESTUDY, by one of the HIGH PROFESSORS of THEOLOGY in SOUTH AFRICA... He said, that at univercity they are nine professors in a Bible study, and sometimes they wlak out the room with nine different opinions (interpretations)... I said... Then the Holy Spirit was not there, or at least not for eight of the nine, but I would estimate not for all nine.... We paid this man to come share this crap with us... The whole group of my fellow "Action Group" was not very pleased with me.... But hat is just as I am, I do not like wearing masks.... If you want to know what I think I will vERBELIZE my thoughts...

And if I pay you to give me BIBLICAL knowlege about Bible study I did not hire you to share how INEFFECTIVE Bible Study is...

Let me ask you this... what is the LONGEST Bible study you EVER heard of? One that started with five, and are still the SAME FIVE.. or something in that manner...

Here is my STRAIGHT OUT FLAT ANSWER... God says we should worship Him in Truth and in Spirit... and we are MADE UNTY OF THE FAITH... let me assure you these people are SO MADE ONE... they ARE OF ON SOUL, ONE SPIRIT, and ONE BODY...
PERFECTLY ONE... One as God and Jesus are ONE...

Will Jesus give you a different answer as God if you ask Him.... Lord AM I BORN OF GOD? Do you think they will have the same amswer? That is how people in the Body of CHRIST is, they are PERFECTLY ONE, AS GOD IS WITH JESUS!
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,216
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#16
Ok, so you are saying that the new believer (on milk) have the exact same understanding of Scripture as those feasting on the "meat" of His Word?

That the new believer is AS wise in Scripture as the Elder?

Just wondering............ :)

So why did Paul teach thus?


1 Corinthians
3



1 .) And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 .) I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Apparently Paul believed that some were not yet mature enough in their walk with Christ to be fed with meat, rather they needed to be cared for with milk like a new born until they were sufficiently mature enough to begin to dine on the "meat" of His Word yes?