Is this being Naive?

[Blain]

So I hear people talk about how the heart of man is truly evil and how if we do not have faith in God we are not his children. But I simply cannot believe this, as I have stated before if the heart of man was truly evil then what would there be to save or spill the blood of christ for? If Jesus died for all people he must have loved all of us right? Good and evil?

I have always believed that even in the darkest of people there is still a small flame of good even if it is barely light, as I posted in another thread Paul was a great example. He was cruel and loved to slaughter anyone who followed christ or claimed to be christian yet look how he turned out.

Then there is the one that bugs me the most, how many say anyone who does not have faith in God is not his children.
I simply cannot believe this because every time I think of all the people in the world and try to see through his eyes I only see myself caring loving them regardless if they are saved or not. I would die for just one of them because if God loves and cares for them like that so will I.
If this indeed were to actually happen and say they are not his children then who am i dying for? Personally i see more christians being unloving than actual unbelievers, saying they are not his children seems cruel to me. Am I just being naive or do we need to take a different look at things?

 

[jonathanbchristian]

Theres plenty of chances to go out and die for those sinners. Hop to it.

 

[phil36]

Hi Blain,

Although we have a sin nature and basically are ways are evil, it does not mean that we are all as bad as we could be..it's God's common grace that insures this. People can love other people whether saved or not..but, they do not love God.

It is the very fact that mans heart is evil and man cannot save himself that Jesus died on the cross and rose again. Simply put, all humanity is deserving death and this because of their sin and rebellion against God. It is sheer mercy that God saves.

The condition of man is not actually a nice picture (read Romans 1-3), they may be polite and nice but underneath tkey are like us all, God haters, Liers, thieves, adulteres and the list goes on. However, that can be wiped clean and only by the blood of Jesus.

 

[VanIsland]

In my view, humankind is neither good nor evil; rather, we are capable of both. We can choose to invest in ‘good’ actions (often for the benefit of something greater than yourself, be it society, family, environment, etc) or your can choose to invest in ‘bad’ actions (generally for selfish gain, the inability to deal with anger, etc.)

While I am not a member of your faith, if we are to take the bible at face value, then the bible is filled with stories where Christ and Yahweh saw the potential for good in humankind. It take patience, but you can help others to understand good from evil and invest in actions beneficial for the greater good.

The issue you’re touching on is that of original sin. Some of the 41,000 denominations of christianity still propose that this is in place, people are born into sin and no one is innocent, where others suggest that christ’s sacrifice annuls original sin, creating a new covenant. So what type of christianity do you want to see? One that is litigious in nature; calling people out for ’sins’ and keeping a record of right and wrong? or one that focuses on loving your fellow man, looking for the good in them?

 

[BeanieD]

I believe we are all His creation, created in love, but unless we accept who He is and what was done for us, then we can't be considered children of God.

 

[Blain]

I think I agree with the quoted statement, for someone who isn't a christian you clearly have a great understanding of it. Personally I am the kind of person who likes to see the good in everyone. I want to be the kind of person who would love all people regardless of faith race or how they act,And I like to see the glass half full.
In my view, humankind is neither good nor evil; rather, we are capable of both.

We can choose to invest in ‘good’ actions (often for the benefit of something greater than yourself, be it society, family, environment, etc) or your can choose to invest in ‘bad’ actions (generally for selfish gain, the inability to deal with anger, etc.)

While I am not a member of your faith, if we are to take the bible at face value, then the bible is filled with stories where Christ and Yahweh saw the potential for good in humankind. It take patience, but you can help others to understand good from evil and invest in actions beneficial for the greater good.

The issue you’re touching on is that of original sin. Some of the 41,000 denominations of christianity still propose that this is in place, people are born into sin and no one is innocent, where others suggest that christ’s sacrifice annuls original sin, creating a new covenant. So what type of christianity do you want to see? One that is litigious in nature; calling people out for ’sins’ and keeping a record of right and wrong? or one that focuses on loving your fellow man, looking for the good in them?[/QUOTE

 

[crossnote]

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes. Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
(Rom 3:10-19)


Call it what you want, it still issues from a heart worthy of damnation apart from the grace of God found in Christ and His redemptive work for us.

 

[directline2iam]

So I hear people talk about how the heart of man is truly evil and how if we do not have faith in God we are not his children. But I simply cannot believe this, as I have stated before if the heart of man was truly evil then what would there be to save or spill the blood of christ for? If Jesus died for all people he must have loved all of us right? Good and evil?

I have always believed that even in the darkest of people there is still a small flame of good even if it is barely light, as I posted in another thread Paul was a great example. He was cruel and loved to slaughter anyone who followed christ or claimed to be christian yet look how he turned out.

Then there is the one that bugs me the most, how many say anyone who does not have faith in God is not his children.
I simply cannot believe this because every time I think of all the people in the world and try to see through his eyes I only see myself caring loving them regardless if they are saved or not. I would die for just one of them because if God loves and cares for them like that so will I.
If this indeed were to actually happen and say they are not his children then who am i dying for? Personally i see more christians being unloving than actual unbelievers, saying they are not his children seems cruel to me. Am I just being naive or do we need to take a different look at things?

So I hear people talk about how the heart of man is truly evil and how if we do not have faith in God we are not his children. But I simply cannot believe this, as I have stated before if the heart of man was truly evil then what would there be to save or spill the blood of christ for? If Jesus died for all people he must have loved all of us right? Good and evil?/QUOTE


Let me see if I understand what you are saying: The evil man proudly thinks he is good cause if he was only evil what would be left to save? Flesh + spirit = soul. If all flesh dies and that is a proven fact, what is left?

 

[4enlightment]

So I hear people talk about how the heart of man is truly evil and how if we do not have faith in God we are not his children. But I simply cannot believe this, as I have stated before if the heart of man was truly evil then what would there be to save or spill the blood of christ for? If Jesus died for all people he must have loved all of us right? Good and evil?

I have always believed that even in the darkest of people there is still a small flame of good even if it is barely light, as I posted in another thread Paul was a great example. He was cruel and loved to slaughter anyone who followed christ or claimed to be christian yet look how he turned out.

Then there is the one that bugs me the most, how many say anyone who does not have faith in God is not his children.
I simply cannot believe this because every time I think of all the people in the world and try to see through his eyes I only see myself caring loving them regardless if they are saved or not. I would die for just one of them because if God loves and cares for them like that so will I.
If this indeed were to actually happen and say they are not his children then who am i dying for? Personally i see more christians being unloving than actual unbelievers, saying they are not his children seems cruel to me. Am I just being naive or do we need to take a different look at things?

Paul was loyal to God (He devoted his life for God), but he didn't believed that God has came down in the flesh. He had heard of the things that Jesus had done while on earth, but he didn't believed the stories and thought that Jesus was a blasphemer and all the ones that had followed after Him. Jesus knew Paul's heart was devoted to God, but paul was blinded from knowing the truth and which the other pharisees has known that Jesus was the anointed one and they tried to keep it hidden from others and even Paul. But once Jesus had unveiled Himself to Paul, Paul went out to uncovered the truth.

Matt 27 4 “I have sinned,” he said, “for I have betrayed innocent blood.”“What is that to us?” they replied. “That’s your responsibility.”
5 So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself.
6 The chief priests picked up the coins and said, “It is against the law to put this into the treasury, since it is blood money.”

Matt 28 11 While the women were on their way, some of the guards went into the city and reported to the chief priests everything that had happened. 12 When the chief priests had met with the elders and devised a plan, they gave the soldiers a large sum of money, 13 telling them, “You are to say, ‘His disciples came during the night and stole him away while we were asleep.’ 14 If this report gets to the governor, we will satisfy him and keep you out of trouble.”

Acts 9:15
But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel.

 

[RickyZ]

We are all God's children, saved and unsaved; and God does love all of us, saved and unsaved. We are born pure into an impure world, that is the original sin, not that we are born rebelliant to God but in an environment which exists solely to make us rebell against God. God opens the door to everyone, everyone, but it is up to them to walk thru it. And it grieves Him for each and every one who doesn't.

 

[Abiding]

I know im a heretic....but when i read the bible it says that even "after" God gives us the truth...people
reject it for self....and will have no excuse....so how we are born in sin is mute.

 

[Nick01]

So I hear people talk about how the heart of man is truly evil and how if we do not have faith in God we are not his children. But I simply cannot believe this, as I have stated before if the heart of man was truly evil then what would there be to save or spill the blood of christ for? If Jesus died for all people he must have loved all of us right? Good and evil?

Jesus died for us because it is in his nature to be compassionate and merciful. There is nothing good that we have to offer God that he should love us (Job 7:17, Psalm 8:4) - indeed, if God was obligated to love us, there would be no need for Christ to die in our place, who did so not because he was obligated to us, but because it was the will of his Father who sent him.

People are not totally evil. Total depravity does not entail that people cannot do things that are good. Indeed, Paul even talks in Romans about Gentiles who, without the law, do things the law demands. But all our actions, in some way are tainted - either we do not follow God's direction, or we do good things without regard for the God from whom all things flow. We are conflicted in our own thoughts, and cannot always follow God even when we want to. (Romans 7:14-25) Man cannot save himself, because he is depraved - he is not in and of himself holy, which is what God's righteous law demands.

But surely YES! God does love all people! But not because we do good things, but in spite of both our sin and our self-righteousness. So YES we must love all people, in the dear hope that they will acknowledge God and become one of his true children in Christ. All people are God's children in the sense that he knowingly made them, but not all are co-heirs with Christ, his holy and precious Child. Our love must go beyond simply caring for others, although it must do that. It must also love so deeply that we call people repentance and seek to present them, along with ourselves, pure and blameless before the throne of God (Phillipians 1:9-11). That is what must lie at the heart of the Christian, because it is the heart of Christ.

 

[allaboutlove]

Humans as a whole arent evil... there are many people i would consider evil an lots of people may do evil things... but there have been many times through out the years in times of disaster or troubles where people stand togather to help one another times like this where you can still see the good in the world.