Liberaltopia II

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cavil51

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2012
147
3
18
#1
Have you ever really thought about what a Liberal Utopia would look like?
Let’s call it “Liberaltopia”.

Income taxes would be unheard of, as nobody would pay them, except the few productive members of society who would happily work and pay their “fair share” of the excessive taxes that would fund Liberaltopia for everyone else.

The fiscal policies would be totally reckless, resulting in tremendous annual deficits despite (or because of) the draconian tax rates, so it would be forced to borrow from more productive countries. (Sound familiar?)

401-K’s and Roth IRA’s wouldn’t exist. In fact, saving money would be taxed, since it would represent a selfish hording of wealth. Businesses and people with money would not be allowed to move to places with lower tax burdens or less regulations, or at least would not be allowed to take their assets with them if they do.

Everyone would be a vegetarian, so the threat of impending ecological doom due to bovine flatulence would be a distant memory. It goes without saying that hunting would be illegal, given that it would violate the “right to life” of animals.

Legal “late term” abortions would devolve into “post birth” abortions, giving the mother (and eventually the state) the “right” to decide whether or not the “fetus” can officially be deemed a child and granted constitutional rights. This period of “post-birth reflection” gradually grows, giving time to detect any undesirable or inconvenient traits. Kermit Gosnell was ahead of his time.

Infanticide would be mirrored on the other end of life by the euthanasia of the sick and the elderly, (aka the undesirables, unaffordables or just inconvenient). It would begin with doctor-assisted suicide, but quickly go down the slippery slope from there once the financial realities of single-payer government run health insurance kick in.

Advertising or using tobacco products would be illegal, but buying it and paying the high “sin taxes” to support government health “education” programs would be mandatory. Of course smoking marijuana would be fine.

There probably wouldn’t be any 7-11’s, because (in addition to cigarettes) Big Gulps and Twinkies would be illegal. In fact, being overweight would be punished via a “fat tax”, (affectionately nicknamed the “Bloomberg tax”). Everyone would be fit and trim, and thus healthy enough to enthusiastically engage in any form of hedonism they choose.

Traditional morality wouldn’t be taught, as that would violate someone's sensibilities and make them feel judged, which would be a crime. Enforcing political correctness however would be mandatory, (which really just means that expressing disapproval of liberalism would be illegal). The result is an amoral society that has to defend itself by mandating that everyone is unarmed, so only the government would have guns. Criminals of course wouldn’t comply, so crime rates would skyrocket.

Since marriage would be legally defined as anything two or more people want it to be, Churches, Christian florists and bakers would be sued for “civil rights” violations for not providing services for homosexual “weddings”. In fact, actually practicing Christianity in your daily life would be an infraction of numerous laws and regulations; which means churches are forced to pay for “health” benefits like abortion coverage and hire employees who don’t practice their faith.

Meanwhile, there would be more gay characters in movies and television, (even if that doesn’t seem possible).

Men would get regular testing for unapproved high levels of testosterone, and take mandatory estrogen therapy as needed, (having their voter registration revoked until the problem is brought under control).

There would be no such thing as “illegal immigrants”, as anyone who claims to be a citizen would be entitled to all government benefits, a voter registration card and a union membership. Any suggestion of a need for border security would be a hate crime.

Old “mainstream” media would again be the only news source available and would be simulcast across all cable, radio and Internet outlets by government mandate. Any conservative views that actually were presented would be bracketed by disclaimers explaining how stupid and bigoted conservatives are.

Anyone seeking to criticize the government would first have to file for permission to do so, explaining their beliefs, the contents of their prayers before they go to bed at night and why they don’t like the government. Donors to conservative causes or candidates would be investigated by the IRS and any other government agency that might make them think twice about getting involved in politics. (Oh, wait, we already have that…)

All of this would be managed by a constantly growing group of faceless bureaucrats, ensuring that no one is ever actually responsible for anything.

Of course the silver lining to all of this is that it wouldn’t last. It would either implode from within or be overthrown from without, ending in either greater tyranny or liberty.
The question is why go there to begin with?



 
G

Grey

Guest
#2
Demonization wont get us anywhere.
 

santuzza

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2013
1,609
38
48
#3
We're almost there...
 
G

GreenNnice

Guest
#4
IS this a bible discussion forum topic ?

But, OK, you want the great liberal and conservative bible minds to help you out, I get it :D
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,312
1,039
113
#5
​I agree with some of these points,but not all.
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
#6
God blessed Israel when they adhered to His direction. Does that mean that all Israelites went to heaven? No! What it does mean is that Israel is our example for prosperity and peace with God in our on country. When Christian believers founded this country, because of their faith in Christ, they took these writings of the Old Testament to heart, and established our law in relation to the laws of Moses, exemplified by the prophets. Would we today, as believers in Christ Jesus, know as our forefathers knew, that this example of Israel was imperative for survival? The way we Christians deny the law given to Moses because of the grace of Jesus Christ, how long will we last? When we adamantly deny any part of the Bible from beginning to the end relevant for today, we invite apostasy into the ranks of the church and ultimately into society, spilling over into the government, leading to a judgment that none of us will like at all. Why do we think that the Mosaic Law threatens grace? We all know that there is no justification in the works of the law. After all, it truly is the Word of God, from God. If the law is such a big threat to grace, then there is obviously another reason for this rejection. Why would Christians think that one part of the Word of God is a threat to another part of the Word of God? That just doesn’t make sense to me. Could it be that the law and the prophets convict the soul so much as to make us see that we are making up our own rules for love and acceptance, and it is just too uncomfortable to think about it.
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
#7
Cavil
What you have posted is uncanny. The scenarios described are truer than one would think, in my estimation. We can see in the book of Revelation, in chapter 13 verses 17 and 18, that 666 is actually the number of man, not the number of a man, and without that number, it is impossible to be in business or even buy groceries. There are many who believe that the end of the Gentile rule is nearing an end, such as I do.
Luke 21:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
1 Peter 4:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:
Paul wrote about the time sequence in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
The “falling away” as described in this verse might be seen as the entire world falling away from what is right in the sight of God, but throughout history, the world in general has never been within the will of God. Therefore the “falling away” has to do with those who proclaim to be within the will of God, but in reality are not. One need not think a whole lot about what group of people Paul is talking about. I leave this verse to those who really care about being in the will of God through Christ Jesus.
2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
 

Nautilus

Senior Member
Jun 29, 2012
6,488
53
48
#9
Have you ever really thought about what a Liberal Utopia would look like?
Let’s call it “Liberaltopia”.

Income taxes would be unheard of, as nobody would pay them, except the few productive members of society who would happily work and pay their “fair share” of the excessive taxes that would fund Liberaltopia for everyone else.

The fiscal policies would be totally reckless, resulting in tremendous annual deficits despite (or because of) the draconian tax rates, so it would be forced to borrow from more productive countries. (Sound familiar?)

401-K’s and Roth IRA’s wouldn’t exist. In fact, saving money would be taxed, since it would represent a selfish hording of wealth. Businesses and people with money would not be allowed to move to places with lower tax burdens or less regulations, or at least would not be allowed to take their assets with them if they do.

Everyone would be a vegetarian, so the threat of impending ecological doom due to bovine flatulence would be a distant memory. It goes without saying that hunting would be illegal, given that it would violate the “right to life” of animals.

Legal “late term” abortions would devolve into “post birth” abortions, giving the mother (and eventually the state) the “right” to decide whether or not the “fetus” can officially be deemed a child and granted constitutional rights. This period of “post-birth reflection” gradually grows, giving time to detect any undesirable or inconvenient traits. Kermit Gosnell was ahead of his time.

Infanticide would be mirrored on the other end of life by the euthanasia of the sick and the elderly, (aka the undesirables, unaffordables or just inconvenient). It would begin with doctor-assisted suicide, but quickly go down the slippery slope from there once the financial realities of single-payer government run health insurance kick in.

Advertising or using tobacco products would be illegal, but buying it and paying the high “sin taxes” to support government health “education” programs would be mandatory. Of course smoking marijuana would be fine.

There probably wouldn’t be any 7-11’s, because (in addition to cigarettes) Big Gulps and Twinkies would be illegal. In fact, being overweight would be punished via a “fat tax”, (affectionately nicknamed the “Bloomberg tax”). Everyone would be fit and trim, and thus healthy enough to enthusiastically engage in any form of hedonism they choose.

Traditional morality wouldn’t be taught, as that would violate someone's sensibilities and make them feel judged, which would be a crime. Enforcing political correctness however would be mandatory, (which really just means that expressing disapproval of liberalism would be illegal). The result is an amoral society that has to defend itself by mandating that everyone is unarmed, so only the government would have guns. Criminals of course wouldn’t comply, so crime rates would skyrocket.

Since marriage would be legally defined as anything two or more people want it to be, Churches, Christian florists and bakers would be sued for “civil rights” violations for not providing services for homosexual “weddings”. In fact, actually practicing Christianity in your daily life would be an infraction of numerous laws and regulations; which means churches are forced to pay for “health” benefits like abortion coverage and hire employees who don’t practice their faith.

Meanwhile, there would be more gay characters in movies and television, (even if that doesn’t seem possible).

Men would get regular testing for unapproved high levels of testosterone, and take mandatory estrogen therapy as needed, (having their voter registration revoked until the problem is brought under control).

There would be no such thing as “illegal immigrants”, as anyone who claims to be a citizen would be entitled to all government benefits, a voter registration card and a union membership. Any suggestion of a need for border security would be a hate crime.

Old “mainstream” media would again be the only news source available and would be simulcast across all cable, radio and Internet outlets by government mandate. Any conservative views that actually were presented would be bracketed by disclaimers explaining how stupid and bigoted conservatives are.

Anyone seeking to criticize the government would first have to file for permission to do so, explaining their beliefs, the contents of their prayers before they go to bed at night and why they don’t like the government. Donors to conservative causes or candidates would be investigated by the IRS and any other government agency that might make them think twice about getting involved in politics. (Oh, wait, we already have that…)

All of this would be managed by a constantly growing group of faceless bureaucrats, ensuring that no one is ever actually responsible for anything.

Of course the silver lining to all of this is that it wouldn’t last. It would either implode from within or be overthrown from without, ending in either greater tyranny or liberty.
The question is why go there to begin with?



what a waste of a post.

On a sidenote spartans frequently practiced post birth abortions and had one of the strongest armies of that time period. You neo-cons like strong armies right....
 
Jun 23, 2013
96
1
0
#10
Demonization wont get us anywhere.
Sadly, all efforts to stem the tide of madness in this country and beat it back when we had the chance has been labeled as "demonization". But you may be right now. It's too late for the "Culture War". It's time to get ready for strong times ahead. American may yet fail to be it's self within the next year, or the next two-three years. OR it might surprise me and come back swinging like it has in the past from seemingly horrifying problems.

I don't know what will happen, only God knows, but we have to wonder, why wouldn't God judge our nation when it has given over so much power to evil, both inside and outside it's borders? Abortion, and of course homosexuality, but not just that, that's baby stuff compared to what else we're doing. What about this "Health Care" Law, which no one understands but still passed? And the passing of Hate Speech laws? And in Arizona, a man was sentenced to two months in jail for having a Bible study in his own house, due to some very foolish loop hole in the law that allowed him to be persecuted just for being Christian.
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
#11
And the passing of Hate Speech laws? And in Arizona, a man was sentenced to two months in jail for having a Bible study in his own house, due to some very foolish loop hole in the law that allowed him to be persecuted just for being Christian.
Well said! And now the DOJ restricts funds from a non-profit organization until they submit a statement that they will no longer pray. Are we going to make excuses - or face reality? Why would it be, if this nation was founded on Biblical principles, that we would legislate anti-Christ philosophy? According to the first amendment of our constitution, the government should be restricted from making any laws concerning any religious institution. Evidently, being Christian is not religion in our country. We can be Baptist, Presbyterian, etc. but DOJ FORBID THAT WE SHOULD BE A CHRISTIAN WITH MORAL PRINCIPLES! Why did the Separatists and Pilgrims escape the Church of England? They desired the freedom to worship God in Spirit and in Truth and were willing to take up arms to accomplish that end.

So the first amendment was priority according to our forefathers. Everything else came second to religious freedom. Wake up Christians!!!!!!!!
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,955
8,669
113
#12
Sadly, all efforts to stem the tide of madness in this country and beat it back when we had the chance has been labeled as "demonization". But you may be right now. It's too late for the "Culture War". It's time to get ready for strong times ahead. American may yet fail to be it's self within the next year, or the next two-three years. OR it might surprise me and come back swinging like it has in the past from seemingly horrifying problems.
I don't know what will happen, only God knows, but we have to wonder, why wouldn't God judge our nation when it has given over so much power to evil, both inside and outside it's borders? Abortion, and of course homosexuality, but not just that, that's baby stuff compared to what else we're doing. What about this "Health Care" Law, which no one understands but still passed? And the passing of Hate Speech laws? And in Arizona, a man was sentenced to two months in jail for having a Bible study in his own house, due to some very foolish loop hole in the law that allowed him to be persecuted just for being Christian.


You are right. It is indeed TOO late to save our nation from the moral cesspool we are now in. My family and Church still pray for a great revival, but it becomes more apparent by the hour that we are in like "the days of Noah". We continue to live our lives and go to work, enjoy our families, and preach the Gospel, but REAL persecution is close at hand. The type our brothers and sisters are experiencing NOW in Africa, the middle east, and Asia. Imprisonment, torture, and death will be our lot, just as most true Christians have suffered for the past 2000 years.
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
#13
You are right. It is indeed TOO late to save our nation from the moral cesspool we are now in. My family and Church still pray for a great revival, but it becomes more apparent by the hour that we are in like "the days of Noah". We continue to live our lives and go to work, enjoy our families, and preach the Gospel, but REAL persecution is close at hand. The type our brothers and sisters are experiencing NOW in Africa, the middle east, and Asia. Imprisonment, torture, and death will be our lot, just as most true Christians have suffered for the past 2000 years.
That brings to mind the theory of a pre-trib rapture. I wonder if this is the beginning of separating the wheat from the tares? How much are we going to have to endure before we contend for the faith unto death? Does “the last trump” mean the seventh trumpet judgment?
1 Corinthians 15:51-57 (KJV)
[SUP]51 [/SUP]Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[SUP]52 [/SUP]In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Revelation 11:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.