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All believers are to continue in His words to be His disciples.
John 8:[SUP]31 [/SUP]Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; [SUP]32 [/SUP]And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free......[SUP]36 [/SUP]If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
The leaders are to lead by example.
Luke 22:[SUP]25 [/SUP]And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors. [SUP]26 [/SUP]But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve. [SUP]27 [/SUP]For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.
1 Timothy 3:1This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. [SUP]2 [/SUP]A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; [SUP]3 [/SUP]Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; [SUP]4 [/SUP]One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; [SUP]5 [/SUP](For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) [SUP]6 [/SUP]Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
[SUP]
8 [/SUP]Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; [SUP]9 [/SUP]Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
John 8:[SUP]31 [/SUP]Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; [SUP]32 [/SUP]And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free......[SUP]36 [/SUP]If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
The leaders are to lead by example.
Luke 22:[SUP]25 [/SUP]And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors. [SUP]26 [/SUP]But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve. [SUP]27 [/SUP]For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.
1 Timothy 3:1This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. [SUP]2 [/SUP]A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; [SUP]3 [/SUP]Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; [SUP]4 [/SUP]One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; [SUP]5 [/SUP](For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) [SUP]6 [/SUP]Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
[SUP]
8 [/SUP]Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; [SUP]9 [/SUP]Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
A
I haven't had a chance to raed all the posts yet. But, tis issue is important to me ...personally. I am currently studying to be a lay minister and have been for over a year now. I will be finished up later this year...officially that is. I'm sure there will be additional training as I continue to grow.
I already have people asking if I plan on seeking a church of my own afterwards. When I was forst called to the ministry I gave God many chances to change His mind...I still do at times. When I first felt His call I said to myself (and maybe even to Him), "...uh, I think you have the wrong number..." But, He persisted.
Shortly after that I was praying and said to Him that I can't just sit in church week after week. I just wasn't content to sit there warming the pew. I wanted to be more involved with the church. Actually, I wanted to be closer and more involved with God Himself I guess. Anyway, I said to Him one night that I have nothing to offer Him in the way of talents. All I could offer Him was myself. I said that if He would have me and be with me than I was His to direct. When I said that I meant it with my whole heart.
Getting back to the topic at hand (kinda got lost there for a minute). Where was I? Oh, I was asked if I will be ready for a church afterwards. I replied that it wasn't up to me. Not really. Everyone likes to say, "Oh, I am just waiting on the Lord..." I will be graduating around December and I still do not know what His will is. I do know that I am not going to rush out and look for a church. It is too big of a responsibility to rush into. People who want to serve in any type of leadership position need to stand back beforehand and contemplate that not only are they responsible to a church, but even more responsible to God.
Leadership in any area of ministry important. But, no matter the position assumed we have to realize and remember that we're not holding a position. We also represent God and will be held accountable. I'm not beyond learning more and following before becoming a leader. I feel anyone aspiring to be a leader must also learn to be a good and obedient follower first.
Well...that's my .12 cents. It would have been .02 cents....I had to allow for inflation!
I already have people asking if I plan on seeking a church of my own afterwards. When I was forst called to the ministry I gave God many chances to change His mind...I still do at times. When I first felt His call I said to myself (and maybe even to Him), "...uh, I think you have the wrong number..." But, He persisted.
Shortly after that I was praying and said to Him that I can't just sit in church week after week. I just wasn't content to sit there warming the pew. I wanted to be more involved with the church. Actually, I wanted to be closer and more involved with God Himself I guess. Anyway, I said to Him one night that I have nothing to offer Him in the way of talents. All I could offer Him was myself. I said that if He would have me and be with me than I was His to direct. When I said that I meant it with my whole heart.
Getting back to the topic at hand (kinda got lost there for a minute). Where was I? Oh, I was asked if I will be ready for a church afterwards. I replied that it wasn't up to me. Not really. Everyone likes to say, "Oh, I am just waiting on the Lord..." I will be graduating around December and I still do not know what His will is. I do know that I am not going to rush out and look for a church. It is too big of a responsibility to rush into. People who want to serve in any type of leadership position need to stand back beforehand and contemplate that not only are they responsible to a church, but even more responsible to God.
Leadership in any area of ministry important. But, no matter the position assumed we have to realize and remember that we're not holding a position. We also represent God and will be held accountable. I'm not beyond learning more and following before becoming a leader. I feel anyone aspiring to be a leader must also learn to be a good and obedient follower first.
Well...that's my .12 cents. It would have been .02 cents....I had to allow for inflation!
A
I had to respond to this as it is a good comment you make. I can see a bit of this in our pastor, and it is really unattractive in any leader...especially a pastor. Please don't get me wrong. He is a good and Godly man and loves our church. But, there are times when the ugly head of pride rears it's ugly head. Sometimes he can not take or accept advice about certain things he could do better or differently. He does have the vertical relationship (him and God), but he could use some work on the horizontal relationship (him and the congregation). At one time is was in amongst the sheep and is now the shepherd.
Jesus said the first shall be last and the last first, church leadership is not the issue, its more who is teaching the truth, and calling lost sinners to repentance! Those who rightly divide the word are not interested in being a church leader, in fact if you go into most church systems today you wouldnt be allowed to preach the truth, as the message you bring them would be considered foolish, since they have sat under the false gospel for so long!
Who are the foolish?
1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish is foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
I used to think this daunting verse only applied to the lost world that has rejected God and His son Jesus Christ!
But the more I delve into the truth, and the more its revealed to me I can see how this verse is now expanding and also applying to those who profess to be a saved, born again follower of Jesus Christ.
It all goes downhill when the few remnant bring them the truth, and expose their strongholds of original sin, substitution, OSAS, Calvinism, etc. This has led to the saved in sin (rebellion and disobedience) and liberal teachings that make the gospel according to godliness a thing of the past!
The truth is foolish to them, and they will not hesitate to tell you straight up, that we who bring them the truth, are the false teachers and of the devil!
They are being foolish as they scoff at real repentance and faith proven by deeds, heart purity, and obedience to the truth, along with free will and ability to actually stop rebellion and disobedience towards God before He will grant them mercy.
We bring countless verses and proof to them, yet the refuse to read them, we give them ample time to dig deep and make their calling sure but they scoff at truth and obedience.
They boldly defend another way to the cross, another gospel, another truth, and another Jesus, who somehow magically took their place, became their righteousness, and feels sorry for their poor sin nature given to them by Adam!
So where is the power? Is God not able to save mankind out of their sins? Is He not powerful enough to forgive and then empower us to have victory over the works of temptation and the devil!
How foolish to say mankind cannot repent, stop sinning, then follow Jesus through an obedient faith on the narrow road, it’s simple:
Act 20:21 testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
This is the foolish gospel to the professing masses, along with a multitude of many more verses that teach the right way to the cross.
The Billy Graham sinners prayer is the standard in the professing Church today, no repentance, no heart purity, and no conversion, just admit, trust and accept, but to the few remnant this message is utter foolishness because it lacks any real power to save a soul form the corrupting influence of sin, that can only occur through a free will choice, to repent stop disobeying and rebelling against God, seek His mercy and stand firm to the end!
Act 28:27 For the heart of this people was fattened, and they have heard with their ears dully; and they closed their eyes; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Tommy
Who are the foolish?
1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish is foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
I used to think this daunting verse only applied to the lost world that has rejected God and His son Jesus Christ!
But the more I delve into the truth, and the more its revealed to me I can see how this verse is now expanding and also applying to those who profess to be a saved, born again follower of Jesus Christ.
It all goes downhill when the few remnant bring them the truth, and expose their strongholds of original sin, substitution, OSAS, Calvinism, etc. This has led to the saved in sin (rebellion and disobedience) and liberal teachings that make the gospel according to godliness a thing of the past!
The truth is foolish to them, and they will not hesitate to tell you straight up, that we who bring them the truth, are the false teachers and of the devil!
They are being foolish as they scoff at real repentance and faith proven by deeds, heart purity, and obedience to the truth, along with free will and ability to actually stop rebellion and disobedience towards God before He will grant them mercy.
We bring countless verses and proof to them, yet the refuse to read them, we give them ample time to dig deep and make their calling sure but they scoff at truth and obedience.
They boldly defend another way to the cross, another gospel, another truth, and another Jesus, who somehow magically took their place, became their righteousness, and feels sorry for their poor sin nature given to them by Adam!
So where is the power? Is God not able to save mankind out of their sins? Is He not powerful enough to forgive and then empower us to have victory over the works of temptation and the devil!
How foolish to say mankind cannot repent, stop sinning, then follow Jesus through an obedient faith on the narrow road, it’s simple:
Act 20:21 testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
This is the foolish gospel to the professing masses, along with a multitude of many more verses that teach the right way to the cross.
The Billy Graham sinners prayer is the standard in the professing Church today, no repentance, no heart purity, and no conversion, just admit, trust and accept, but to the few remnant this message is utter foolishness because it lacks any real power to save a soul form the corrupting influence of sin, that can only occur through a free will choice, to repent stop disobeying and rebelling against God, seek His mercy and stand firm to the end!
Act 28:27 For the heart of this people was fattened, and they have heard with their ears dully; and they closed their eyes; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Tommy
A
all the leaders I've ever spoken to spend hours in study and prayer every day.
they undergo months of training before becoming lay leaders or years in seminary school.
I'm not sure which churches you go to but not everyone is allowed to be a leader. everyone is allowed a voice and given an opportunity to share but the leadership of the church is given to the members shown to have maturity, dedication and love of both prayer and study in order to share God's Truth with others.
most of the people I know may have studied for twenty plus years, but would tell you they don't feel qualified to be a leader but would try their best to share what God has taught them.
The people in leadership positions I respect follow Jesus example of leadership: they walk ahead to confront dangers, knowing that others are follow behind them because of love and trust; they lead by example.
unlike some people who claim to be leaders that prod people to jump through hoops and sacrifice themselves for the benefit of the false shepherds or like the hireling that runs away when the wolves appear.
they undergo months of training before becoming lay leaders or years in seminary school.
I'm not sure which churches you go to but not everyone is allowed to be a leader. everyone is allowed a voice and given an opportunity to share but the leadership of the church is given to the members shown to have maturity, dedication and love of both prayer and study in order to share God's Truth with others.
most of the people I know may have studied for twenty plus years, but would tell you they don't feel qualified to be a leader but would try their best to share what God has taught them.
The people in leadership positions I respect follow Jesus example of leadership: they walk ahead to confront dangers, knowing that others are follow behind them because of love and trust; they lead by example.
unlike some people who claim to be leaders that prod people to jump through hoops and sacrifice themselves for the benefit of the false shepherds or like the hireling that runs away when the wolves appear.
Indeed. It seems like some who appoint leaders within the church are more fixated on the eloquence, popularity, and flattery of the person and are oblivious as to whether or not the person upholds the truth. Such could lead to blind leaders leading people to the ditch. It is of utmost importance that the leaders are well established in the word of God.
A
the Husbandman must first be partakers of the fruit.
Study is a must. I love Peters words
1Peter 5
So saying study is a must yes but theres so much more. Like fitting in both with elders above you for safety and younguns
your are and elder to for their safety and growth.
Study is a must. I love Peters words
1Peter 5
5
The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: 2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; 3 Neither as being lords over [1] God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock. 4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble. 6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: 7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: 9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you. 11 To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. AmenSo saying study is a must yes but theres so much more. Like fitting in both with elders above you for safety and younguns
your are and elder to for their safety and growth.