Markus of the Beasty

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Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
#1
I'm reading a book by Jonathan Welton - "The Art of Revelation" - after identifying the beast as 1st century Rome he goes on to discuss the mark:

Here, I would like to offer clarity about the mark of the beast, now that we have identified the beast as the Roman Empire. In ancient Rome, the public market was the primary place for buying and selling of goods and services. If people wanted to enter the market, they had to pass through the main gate, where they had to pay homage to the idol of the Emperor. After they did this, ashes were rubbed on their hand or forehead to indicate that they were free to enter the market and conduct business.

This was called “taking the mark.” This simple explanation demystifies the mark of the beast and gives it a logical historical context.

Along these lines, N.T. Wright points out the significance of the mark of the beast for early believers:

What’s more, worshipping or not worshipping was quickly becoming the dividing line between people who were acceptable in the community and people who weren’t. Not long after this time, some local officials introduced a formal requirement that unless you had offered the required sacrifices you weren’t allowed in the market.

There were various kinds of marks and visible signs, which were used to set people apart either as ‘able to trade’ or as ‘not able to trade’. From quite early on the Christians were faced with a stark alternative: stay true to the lamb and risk losing your livelihood, the ability to sell or buy; capitulate to the monster, sacrifice to Caesar at the behest of the local officials, and then everything will be all right— except your integrity as one of the lamb’s followers.

Richard Anthony confirms this dilemma that faced the early believers, who wanted to stay true to Jesus, but also needed to conduct business in the Roman world:

The Christians of the first century were under the military authority of Rome, a nation which openly proclaimed its rulers, the Caesars, to be divine. All those under the jurisdiction of Rome were required by law to publicly proclaim their allegiance to Caesar by burning a pinch of incense and declaring, “Caesar is Lord.”

Upon compliance with this law, the people were given a papyrus document called a “libellus,” which they were required to present when either stopped by the Roman police or attempting to engage in commerce in the Roman marketplace, increasing the difficulty of “buying or selling” without this mark. This is the essence of Scripture’s warnings to the early Christians against taking upon themselves the “mark of the beast.”


Welton, Jonathan . The Art of Revelation (Kindle Locations 1451-1458). BookBaby. Kindle Edition.
 
Jul 23, 2017
879
31
0
#2
oh no another preterism thread!
make it stop
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#3
I'm reading a book by Jonathan Welton - "The Art of Revelation" - after identifying the beast as 1st century Rome he goes on to discuss the mark:

Here, I would like to offer clarity about the mark of the beast, now that we have identified the beast as the Roman Empire. In ancient Rome, the public market was the primary place for buying and selling of goods and services. If people wanted to enter the market, they had to pass through the main gate, where they had to pay homage to the idol of the Emperor. After they did this, ashes were rubbed on their hand or forehead to indicate that they were free to enter the market and conduct business.

This was called “taking the mark.” This simple explanation demystifies the mark of the beast and gives it a logical historical context.

Along these lines, N.T. Wright points out the significance of the mark of the beast for early believers:

What’s more, worshipping or not worshipping was quickly becoming the dividing line between people who were acceptable in the community and people who weren’t. Not long after this time, some local officials introduced a formal requirement that unless you had offered the required sacrifices you weren’t allowed in the market.

There were various kinds of marks and visible signs, which were used to set people apart either as ‘able to trade’ or as ‘not able to trade’. From quite early on the Christians were faced with a stark alternative: stay true to the lamb and risk losing your livelihood, the ability to sell or buy; capitulate to the monster, sacrifice to Caesar at the behest of the local officials, and then everything will be all right— except your integrity as one of the lamb’s followers.

Richard Anthony confirms this dilemma that faced the early believers, who wanted to stay true to Jesus, but also needed to conduct business in the Roman world:

The Christians of the first century were under the military authority of Rome, a nation which openly proclaimed its rulers, the Caesars, to be divine. All those under the jurisdiction of Rome were required by law to publicly proclaim their allegiance to Caesar by burning a pinch of incense and declaring, “Caesar is Lord.”

Upon compliance with this law, the people were given a papyrus document called a “libellus,” which they were required to present when either stopped by the Roman police or attempting to engage in commerce in the Roman marketplace, increasing the difficulty of “buying or selling” without this mark. This is the essence of Scripture’s warnings to the early Christians against taking upon themselves the “mark of the beast.”


Welton, Jonathan . The Art of Revelation (Kindle Locations 1451-1458). BookBaby. Kindle Edition.
Living in the ancient Rome had to be really terrible.

Truly a choice "Christ and torturing/death vs normal life".

What a difference now, when Christianity is a "cultural heritance", a way to be healthy, rich and powerful and blah blah.
 
Apr 15, 2017
2,867
653
113
#4
But how do people escape this.

Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

This is the last kingdom before God puts them down,and they shall devour the whole earth,tread it down,and break it in pieces.

Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The beast shall have power over all nations,kindreds,and tongues,and all that do not love God on earth will worship the beast.

The 4th beast,the beast kingdom,shall have power over all the earth.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

The new age movement that will come out in the latter times,which the latter times was not back then in the first century,and there was no new age movement back then.

They have an interpretation of the Bible,and all religions,based on spiritual evolution through nature,and Jesus is not Lord and Savior,but a good teacher in spiritual enlightenment,and an ascended master,and avatar,which they are waiting for the New Age Christ,which the Bible calls the man of sin.

Dan 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
Dan 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power(gets his power from Satan): and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand(witchcraft); and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Dan 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
Dan 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
Dan 11:38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The transgressors did not come to the full in the first century,which this is when the world are at its most rebellious before the beast claims to be God,going by the new age movement,and not wanting to hear the Bible according to the truth,which is the falling away first before the man of sin claims to be God.

The man of sin will support the new age movement,and claim to have harnessed the power of nature,and obtained power,evolved,and will share this power with all people who follow him.

This never happened in the first century.

This happens at the time God is ready to put the world down,and put an end to this sin business on earth.

God will not give up on the world until the world gives up on Him,so He will allow all people that do not love Him to follow the beast kingdom,and when they take the mark of the beast,that has to do with technology,then He can put them down.

If Revelation happened in the first century then the wicked would of already been put down,but the wicked is still continuing on now,so it is to come.

Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Dan 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

We will know when it is the end time,and for these things to happen,because of advanced technology,and advanced travel,which makes it possible for the world to come together,which God said He is going to gather all Gentile nations together,and when they come together saying,Peace and safety,it is a hint that Jesus is close to getting His saints off the earth.

chi xi stigma
khee xee stig'-ma
The 22nd, 14th and an obsolete letter (G4742 as a cross) of the Greek alphabet (intermediate between the 5th and 6th), used as numbers; denoting respectively 600, 60 and 6; 666 as a numeral: - six hundred threescore and six.

stigma
stig'-mah
From a primary word στίζω stizō (to “stick”, that is, prick); a mark incised or punched (for recognition of ownership), that is, (figuratively) scar of service: - mark.

Also 666,and the mark,does not describe ashes being put on the person,but it is to stick,that is prick,that is put in their hand or forehead.

Ashes,that is funny,and at least you could of said a stamp.

Ashes,that cracks me up.

When did anybody go to a concert,or a club,or anything today,and they put ashes on them to indicate entrance,and that they paid.

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Wow,it looks like God is really mad that they had ashes put on them,and they went and bought,and sold things,that they have to be tormented night and day for their very severe naughtiness.

Shame on them for letting them put ashes on them,and buying,and selling things,now they are damned for eternity.

That is silly.Why would they pay that kind of price for the simple buying,and selling of things,back in the first century,Roman Empire.

This is a spiritual matter with the mark of the beast,that the ones who take it are damned for eternity.

And this is why.The mark of the beast is the one world economic system,and has to do with technology.

The beast's agenda is there is no personal God to help mankind,for he acknowledges no personal God,but the God of forces,the power of nature as his higher power,and that mankind can solve their problems,and achieve peace,by their own technology,and devices,so when the world takes the mark of the beast it becomes a spiritual matter.

When the world takes the mark of the beast then it is over,for they are saying it is all about people with no higher authority above them,and repentance,and salvation is no longer available to them,and God can put them down.

These people will have the worse punishment out of all people in the history of mankind,for they rebelled like no other group of people ever did.

All prophesy did not come to pass in the first century.