Need husbands' opinions -- what would you want?

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Depleted

Guest
#1
John, my husband, had a small heart attack and then a massive heart attack the week before Thanksgiving. He's been in the cardiac ICU ever since, and when he stabilizes, (he's had pneumonia, got rid of that, but still has a persistent fever, and one day had a bad case of A-Fib), he's going in for open-heart surgery. They have him drugged up, so he's either asleep or his eyes are open but he doesn't respond to me. Add to that he's on a ventilator.

I knew it was highly unlikely he'd survive the first night, but later on his doctor told me the truth. Then he had a 10%-15% chance of surviving. The week later when the doctor told me that, he said he had a 50/50 to survive now. I don't think that has changed.

So, needless to say, I was freaking that first week. (Can't say I'm all that much better now, but I am somewhat better.) I wanted God to hear me loud and clear. (As if God is hard of hearing?) I remembered the Bible said if someone is sick, get the elders to pray for him and anoint him with oil. Well, we don't belong to a church, because we can't go, but there is a church we would belong to, if we could go, so I thought of them. Back then hubby was aware enough that he could nod or shake his head if I asked him questions. I asked him if he wanted elders to pray over him. He shook his head.

He also told me he didn't have that first heart attack, because he checked the Internet and he was sure it was a weird form of heartburn. (And then it got worse and worse, until he couldn't breath. He was in the middle of the massive heart attack when he let me drive him to the ER. The first thing the ER doctor told him was, "You are dying, unless I put you on a ventilator for an hour or two." I heard his response. Half of it was "Holy."The other half wasn't prim and proper for a Christian, but I smile thinking of it, because it was his full reaction. Also the last two words I've heard him speak.) So, that's just one case where he is sure it's never a big deal, it's only him, he's fine, and I shouldn't worry.

I really am a submissive wife in the good sense of that word. The immediate crisis is over, but now he can't get rid of a fever even though he has no infection. The fever has lingered for at least two weeks. I would ask him again, but when I asks him if he knows it's me, (his eyes are opened), he neither shakes his head nor nods. As long as that fever stays, he doesn't get the surgery. Nos surgery and he stays like this. He's also a good husband. He makes most of the big decisions, but only after we talk it out and the vast majority of time we agree on what that decision is. He loves me like Christ loves the church.

So, knowing all that, what would you want your wife to do here? Call the elders of a church you know? (And we have relative history from back in the 90's with that church -- I worked with one of the elders in a committee, as a member of a planted church from that church, and we were going to classes to join, but that's where we learned about the church planting in our neighborhood, so went to that one instead.) Assume first decision remains? He did say no, but at that time he didn't know he'd be stuck in limbo for weeks on end with a fever unaware of much going on.

I've had to sign for all his decisions without asking him. I never thought I'd have to face the moment when I make his decisions, but he did make that decision once. I'm just not sure if it counts two weeks later. He was shocked when he was told it was two weeks. I haven't really seen the real hubby since, Just a very sick man fighting forever.

I know you can't decide for him, but what would you want done for something like this?
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#2
This is not on topic, I realize. But I just wanted to compliment you on your writing. It is getting more and more uncommon to actually see a well-written post on this forum.

Thank you.
 
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Ugly

Guest
#3
Your husband may be a good man, but he also sounds quite stubborn when it comes to himself. Stubbornness is a form of pride. Pride comes before the fall. Seems to me there is a time when you have to act for his own good, when he is too stubborn to do it for himself. He's already proven to be unwilling to make right decisions about his health, and this may be the time to step in.

I don't know that that is the right answer, but that's the thought that occurred to me. We are to be obedient to laws, to husbands, etc... but we are also called to use wisdom.
Though God is fully capable of bringing your husband through this, i don't know that calling the elders in is a promise that healing will occur. There is no guarantee that if we do 'X' then God will act and heal. God has a will bigger and better than ours. Ultimately He chooses. We can only hope that His will and ours are in sync.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
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#4
My friend, I don't see the harm in having elders come and pray over John or even anointing him before the surgery. All you are really doing is what the Bible instructed and that is asking God for special help/healing for your husband there can't be anything wrong with that and I am sure John wouldn't mind you asking God for special attention for John in his time of need.

It is just admitting we need God and we want Him there....that is never wrong.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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#5
Your husband is no longer competent. (Because he is tied to a ventilator and cannot speak!) So you are now the leader. Make the decisions you need to make. If that means calling for the elders to anoint him with oil, then the sooner the better. You don't want to end up regretting you didn't do it earlier.

My MIL was a completely submissive person. Apparently my FIL ruled the roost, and it was an arrangement that worked well. Until the very stubborn husband went heli-skiing with my husband, (a young teenager) and my FIL decided he didn't need for the guide to check the snow for spring avalanche hazard. To make a long story short, he died, my husband survived, and my MIL cried for months.

Now, of course she was missing her husband. But she did not drive, she did not know how to write a check, pay bills or anything else to do with maintaining a household. I think she basically did laundry and washed dishes. So although the situation before her husband died worked, she had no independence and her world crashed, just as yours did. She needed someone to tell her what to do, and she also lost that.

Well, my MIL not only survived, but learned how to do ALL the household tasks. She even learned to paint the house and fix things if they broke. In fact, she became the stubborn one!

Which is to tell you, that rigid roles are fine if both partners are happy. But you do have to be flexible enough to change. And that might mean making the big decisions. If your husband is on life support, does he have a living will? If not, you will have to make those big decisions, too.

I'm praying your husband will make it, and that he will be on the right side of 50/50. I am also going to pray that you realize the gifts God has given you, and that included the ability to run the family, the home, care for your husband and make the big decisions when necessary.
 

tjogs

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2009
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#6
God is a foundation of marriage and our lives. The relations in the family (husband, wife, God) is drawn as a triangle, so even if it's said that wife submits her husband she must as much have personal contact to God.
(seek first the kingdom of God and everything else shall be given to you)
Also as it was said on my own wedding day, wife is suppose to stay on her husbands side and aid him, to complete and support him in areas where he is not so good, or even unable to do by himself as the case is in your situation.

As said above, There's nothing wrong for asking God to help.
 
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Depleted

Guest
#7
Your husband is no longer competent. (Because he is tied to a ventilator and cannot speak!) So you are now the leader. Make the decisions you need to make. If that means calling for the elders to anoint him with oil, then the sooner the better. You don't want to end up regretting you didn't do it earlier.

My MIL was a completely submissive person. Apparently my FIL ruled the roost, and it was an arrangement that worked well. Until the very stubborn husband went heli-skiing with my husband, (a young teenager) and my FIL decided he didn't need for the guide to check the snow for spring avalanche hazard. To make a long story short, he died, my husband survived, and my MIL cried for months.

Now, of course she was missing her husband. But she did not drive, she did not know how to write a check, pay bills or anything else to do with maintaining a household. I think she basically did laundry and washed dishes. So although the situation before her husband died worked, she had no independence and her world crashed, just as yours did. She needed someone to tell her what to do, and she also lost that.

Well, my MIL not only survived, but learned how to do ALL the household tasks. She even learned to paint the house and fix things if they broke. In fact, she became the stubborn one!

Which is to tell you, that rigid roles are fine if both partners are happy. But you do have to be flexible enough to change. And that might mean making the big decisions. If your husband is on life support, does he have a living will? If not, you will have to make those big decisions, too.

I'm praying your husband will make it, and that he will be on the right side of 50/50. I am also going to pray that you realize the gifts God has given you, and that included the ability to run the family, the home, care for your husband and make the big decisions when necessary.
I'm the right kind of submissive. I've been the bill payer, the one who decides we have enough money to fix, (oddly enough I made that decision for our front steps to be done three weeks before this happened, and the night I came home without him, the work was done), and am his Living Will. I've been maintaining the house while he's gone, learned how to get there and back again by taking taxis at first, (also because I could burst out crying at any moment, which isn't good while driving), and have even continued to make desserts while he's gone -- I get one-fourth, I freeze one-fourth for when he can eat them, and then give the rest to the staff taking care of him. Desserts. What I do when stressed. lol)

That first night, I instructed doctors to do to him only what they would do for themselves. If it was beyond what they'd do for themselves in that situation, let God decide if he lived or died. Even told the hospital if he did die, he'd want his body donated to that hospital. (They knew this was never going to heart transplant stage, nor was he going to be living on machines for the rest of his life, just because I couldn't let him go.) I'm his living will because we've talked about this stuff enough that I can be.

I'm definitely not afraid to make decisions for him. I've just never gone against something he decided before. Then again, any time he's ever decided something before, we were always free to change our minds later.


Also, I'm not coming at the anointing with oil from that old Catholic upbringing. It's not last rites and it's not "maybe God can't do miracles without it." I've never quite got what the purpose of the oil is in NT, but God says it, so it seems like the right thing to do. When John makes such decisions he tells me why. This is the first time he can't.
 
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#8
Your husband may be a good man, but he also sounds quite stubborn when it comes to himself. Stubbornness is a form of pride. Pride comes before the fall. Seems to me there is a time when you have to act for his own good, when he is too stubborn to do it for himself. He's already proven to be unwilling to make right decisions about his health, and this may be the time to step in.

I don't know that that is the right answer, but that's the thought that occurred to me. We are to be obedient to laws, to husbands, etc... but we are also called to use wisdom.
Though God is fully capable of bringing your husband through this, i don't know that calling the elders in is a promise that healing will occur. There is no guarantee that if we do 'X' then God will act and heal. God has a will bigger and better than ours. Ultimately He chooses. We can only hope that His will and ours are in sync.
How are you doing, Ug? You've spent some time in the hospital during the last few weeks. Have you gotten home yet? (Yes, I was praying for you.)
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,869
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#9
Lynn, God works on his timetable, not ours. My dad has had 2 heart attacks, and he's 84 and still kicking..lol.. I want you to read my pain testimony and read the lessons I learned while incapacitated for a long while. I know you're an impatient person, and so am I.. but I learned many lessons about having patience in difficult times. I agree with Ugly's response. Hubby can't communicate his wishes, YOU need to make the decisions right now. And even if people do come and anoint him with oil, that's no guarantee he'll heal any faster. His body needs time to heal on it's own. It's gonna take awhile. My dad spent two weeks in hospital with his 2nd heart attack last year, and had stents put in his heart.
 
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Guest
#10
Lynn, God works on his timetable, not ours. My dad has had 2 heart attacks, and he's 84 and still kicking..lol.. I want you to read my pain testimony and read the lessons I learned while incapacitated for a long while. I know you're an impatient person, and so am I.. but I learned many lessons about having patience in difficult times. I agree with Ugly's response. Hubby can't communicate his wishes, YOU need to make the decisions right now. And even if people do come and anoint him with oil, that's no guarantee he'll heal any faster. His body needs time to heal on it's own. It's gonna take awhile. My dad spent two weeks in hospital with his 2nd heart attack last year, and had stents put in his heart.
I'm not impatient. I just want him home NOW!


John had three stents put in that first night. It's 25 days later. He is no longer on the EKMO, the machine that gave his heart a little more efficiency, and the dialysis machine, (they took out the line for the dialysis yesterday, so they don't think he's going back on it), but he's been floundering with this fever for over two weeks and no one, but God, knows why. He's atrophying like crazy. I read every day an older person can't move, they lose 10% of muscle tone. Add to that, he has CFS, so anything strenuous will make him feel the aches and pains of a flu. Taking a shower does that to him. What will rehab do to him?

I have always been straddling the line for nuts. I think I'm looking backwards at that line.

99% of me knows that having elders pray for him isn't likely to change anything. It's that 1% I'm questioning. And then it's my duty as a wife, too.
 
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oldthennew

Guest
#11
Lynn,

please don't forget to take the best care of yourself during this most trying time....

we know that you have found out that our Father gives us what we need in our times of trials -
just because you are by your husband's side, giving him that special love and intimacy that you
both share, it will make all of the difference in his ability to feel at peace....
incredible love does incredible things and has incredible results, whether in life or in death...

being faithful in trying times will always bear the fruit of Spiritual Strength through a clean conscience...
through God's Law of Marriage, the both are one, and when one is weak, the other is strong and wiil
do what needs to be done for the unity and the covenant of marriage, and the unity of the
Will of God...

our prayers are with you both, and we thank our Heavenly Father for those who have supported and helped
you along the way....
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,551
2,172
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#12
James 5:14 Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; 15and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him.…

Lynn, I don't believe that the anointing with oil for most faiths are a last rite sort of thing. I always took it as asking God for His help in the healing process.
 
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Guest
#13
I've gone with not doing it. I've decided that because:
a. John shook his head.
b. I fear I might be wanting to for the same reason I bring out John's coffee mug with Eagle's logos before the Eagles game -- as a superstition rather than as trusting God or being obedient to him. I'm not sure that's why I'm doing it, but it might be.

Besides, God is able, no matter what I do or don't do, and i have been leaning on him and lots of prayers for John, so I'm already doing what I can. Seems enough. Not like I can twist God's arm, nor do I want to (most of the time.)