passover and the change to a new covenant

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
royalscot

royalscot

Banned
#1
Jan 27, 2013
4,769
18
0
#1
is this proof to change

Institution of the Passover
43 And the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, "This is the statute of the Passover: no foreigner shall eat of it,44 but every slave that is bought for money may eat of it after you have circumcised him.45 No foreigner or hired servant may eat of it.46 It shall be eaten in one house; you shall not take any of the flesh outside the house, and you shall not break any of its bones.47 All the congregation of Israel shall keep it.48 If a stranger shall sojourn with you and would keep the Passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised. Then he may come near and keep it; he shall be as a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person shall eat of it.49 There shall be one law for the native and for the stranger who sojourns among you."
50 All the people of Israel did just as the LORD commanded Moses and Aaron.51 And on that very day the LORD brought the people of Israel out of the land of Egypt by their hosts.Exodus 12

45 No foreigner or hired servant may eat of it.

48 If a stranger shall sojourn with you and would keep the Passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised.



The Passover with the Disciples
17 Now on the first day of Unleavened Bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying, "Where will you have us prepare for you to eat the Passover?"18 He said, "Go into the city to a certain man and say to him, 'The Teacher says, My time is at hand. I will keep the Passover at your house with my disciples.'"19 And the disciples did as Jesus had directed them, and they prepared the Passover.
20 When it was evening, he reclined at table with the twelve.21 And as they were eating, he said, "Truly, I say to you, one of you will betray me."22 And they were very sorrowful and began to say to him one after another, "Is it I, Lord?"23 He answered, "He who has dipped his hand in the dish with me will betray me.24 The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born."25 Judas, who would betray him, answered, "Is it I, Rabbi?" He said to him, "You have said so."Matthew 26


if you need to be jewish to eat of the passover. then jesus would still be talking to a jewish people.(at the last supper)



15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenantHebrews 9

Acts 2: The Coming of the Holy Spirit

acts 10 , gentile being given the holy spirit.

Galatians 5: Christ Has Set Us Free
1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.
2 Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you.3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from graceGalatians 5: Christ Has Set Us Free

paul telling the jewish converts not to return to law.


any thought to why this change was made
 
Locutus

Locutus

Senior Member
#2
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
#2
Not sure what you are getting at really.

The Mosaic covenant was temporary.
 
royalscot

royalscot

Banned
#3
Jan 27, 2013
4,769
18
0
#3
Locutus said:
Not sure what you are getting at really.

The Mosaic covenant was temporary.
Click to expand...
but your sure that the mosaic was temporary.
what about jesus life , if he is under the mosaic covenant,at this point then his words would be to a people, that are under the old covenant. so what value is jesus words to a gentile. apart from that his life and death, and death being conquered. etc (lead to the gentile being saved. )
 
Last edited:
Locutus

Locutus

Senior Member
#4
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
#4
For the most part his words were for the nation of Israel under the Mosaic covenant:

Mat 15:24 (Young's) and he answering said, 'I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.'

Even though Paul's ministry included the Gentiles he also affirmed the scope of Jesus' ministry:

Rom 15:8 And I say Jesus Christ to have become a ministrant of circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises to the fathers.

I still not sure what your point is though.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#5
Jul 31, 2013
36,770
13,162
113
#5
the Lord told His people that He would bring them back again, from the ends of the earth, and circumcise their hearts. (Deuteronomy 30:1-10) after He commanded them to circumcise their own hearts (Deuteronomy 10:12-16). He said that the blessing and the curse would come upon them, and that He would restore them.

He later said that He would shame His people for their guilt by gathering them again through the mouths of strangers (Isaiah 28:11), that He would be found by peoples who did not look for Him, and known by peoples who did not know Him (Isaiah 65:1). so that mercy is shown to all - through Christ, to the Jew who received Him, to all the world, and then through all the world to the Jew who rejected Him (Romans 11:25-32), through the people the Jew rejected, as He was also rejected - so that they would look upon Him, the Father, the Son whom they pierced, and weep (Zechariah 12:10), and He gather them again (Luke 13:34).

all who take up the cup of the Lamb must be circumcised still (1 Corinthians 11:29) - but of the heart, no longer by the insufficiency of human hands (Colossians 2:11), which was a shadow that marked separation (Colossians 2:17). by the hand of God, who redeems and makes us holy to Himself (Hebrews 10:14).
 
Last edited:
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#6
Jul 24, 2016
7,481
3,518
113
#6
royalscot said:
is this proof to change

Institution of the Passover
43 And the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, "This is the statute of the Passover: no foreigner shall eat of it,44 but every slave that is bought for money may eat of it after you have circumcised him.45 No foreigner or hired servant may eat of it.46 It shall be eaten in one house; you shall not take any of the flesh outside the house, and you shall not break any of its bones.47 All the congregation of Israel shall keep it.48 If a stranger shall sojourn with you and would keep the Passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised. Then he may come near and keep it; he shall be as a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person shall eat of it.49 There shall be one law for the native and for the stranger who sojourns among you."
50 All the people of Israel did just as the LORD commanded Moses and Aaron.51 And on that very day the LORD brought the people of Israel out of the land of Egypt by their hosts.Exodus 12

45 No foreigner or hired servant may eat of it.

48 If a stranger shall sojourn with you and would keep the Passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised.



The Passover with the Disciples
17 Now on the first day of Unleavened Bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying, "Where will you have us prepare for you to eat the Passover?"18 He said, "Go into the city to a certain man and say to him, 'The Teacher says, My time is at hand. I will keep the Passover at your house with my disciples.'"19 And the disciples did as Jesus had directed them, and they prepared the Passover.
20 When it was evening, he reclined at table with the twelve.21 And as they were eating, he said, "Truly, I say to you, one of you will betray me."22 And they were very sorrowful and began to say to him one after another, "Is it I, Lord?"23 He answered, "He who has dipped his hand in the dish with me will betray me.24 The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born."25 Judas, who would betray him, answered, "Is it I, Rabbi?" He said to him, "You have said so."Matthew 26


if you need to be jewish to eat of the passover. then jesus would still be talking to a jewish people.(at the last supper)



15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenantHebrews 9

Acts 2: The Coming of the Holy Spirit

acts 10 , gentile being given the holy spirit.

Galatians 5: Christ Has Set Us Free
1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.
2 Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you.3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from graceGalatians 5: Christ Has Set Us Free

paul telling the jewish converts not to return to law.


any thought to why this change was made
Click to expand...
The critical verses are the following::

Galatians 5:KJV
2 "Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. {3} For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. {4} Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."

To me it is not about what people choose to observe, the critical matter is if they believe that their observing justifes them.. If people believe that they are justified by doing the Law then the Atonement of Jesus does not save them.. When a preacher says we Must keep the Law they are adding Law observance to what justifies the believer and in doing so they make the Atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ of no use to themselves and all who follow their teachings.. They are all doomed to eternal condemnation..
 
royalscot

royalscot

Banned
#7
Jan 27, 2013
4,769
18
0
#7
Locutus said:
For the most part his words were for the nation of Israel under the Mosaic covenant:

Mat 15:24 (Young's) and he answering said, 'I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.'

Even though Paul's ministry included the Gentiles he also affirmed the scope of Jesus' ministry:

Rom 15:8 And I say Jesus Christ to have become a ministrant of circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises to the fathers.

I still not sure what your point is though.
Click to expand...
ware is he make a straight path to


the key word,here is change, how was it made, how was put in place ( be fore 70ad)

for example

Matthew 3: John the Baptist Prepares the Way
1 In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Judea,2 "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."3 For this is he who was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah when he said,
"The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
'Prepare the way of the Lord;
make his paths straight.'

repent (with voice)was new to the jewish religion , take animal to the temple for forgiveness. this was why the pharisee hated him ,

your quote
Mat 15:24 (Young's) and he answering said, 'I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.'

i would be correct with my jesus was only sent to the jewish people. and was rejected by this peoples religion or law of the land.
 
royalscot

royalscot

Banned
#8
Jan 27, 2013
4,769
18
0
#8
posthuman said:
the Lord told His people that He would bring them back again, from the ends of the earth, and circumcise their hearts. (Deuteronomy 30:1-10) after He commanded them to circumcise their own hearts (Deuteronomy 10:12-16). He said that the blessing and the curse would come upon them, and that He would restore them.

He later said that He would shame His people for their guilt by gathering them again through the mouths of strangers (Isaiah 28:11), that He would be found by peoples who did not look for Him, and known by peoples who did not know Him (Isaiah 65:1). so that mercy is shown to all - through Christ, to the Jew who received Him, to all the world, and then through all the world to the Jew who rejected Him (Romans 11:25-32), through the people the Jew rejected, as He was also rejected - so that they would look upon Him, the Father, the Son whom they pierced, and weep (Zechariah 12:10), and He gather them again (Luke 13:34).

all who take up the cup of the Lamb must be circumcised still (1 Corinthians 11:29) - but of the heart, no longer by the insufficiency of human hands (Colossians 2:11), which was a shadow that marked separation (Colossians 2:17). by the hand of God, who redeems and makes us holy to Himself (Hebrews 10:14).
Click to expand...
if the world is his, then all people are hisie (god s)
after foundational teachings etc
my salvation is directed to the whole world, yet in the bible the whole world, was not discovered fully , given there must be a time for the world to be discovered for salvation to reach the whole world.

change is key, but ware dose it lead to,, have you considered ,

the hibernated bible,(the lost generation, that would not fight, etc in the same way, the hibernated bible can lead to modern jews to jesus christ.

6 he says:
"It is too light a thing that you should be my servant
to raise up the tribes of Jacob
and to bring back the preserved of Israel;
I will make you as a light for the nations,
that my salvation may reach to the end of the earth.Isaiah 49: The Servant of the LORD


all nation , and since history would give a jewish nation it country or nation back around 1948.

the history would not end with, what is wrote in the bible, given time to the wings of history to reveal or lead to the bigger picture of change.


the ministry of the holy spirit. is another key point missed ,
 
royalscot

royalscot

Banned
#9
Jan 27, 2013
4,769
18
0
#9
Adstar said:
The critical verses are the following::

Galatians 5:KJV
2 "Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. {3} For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. {4} Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."

To me it is not about what people choose to observe, the critical matter is if they believe that their observing justifes them.. If people believe that they are justified by doing the Law then the Atonement of Jesus does not save them.. When a preacher says we Must keep the Law they are adding Law observance to what justifies the believer and in doing so they make the Atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ of no use to themselves and all who follow their teachings.. They are all doomed to eternal condemnation..
Click to expand...
doomed is not in our hands lol
given salvation is from a higher power.
you make a point , even if you cannot see it your self, the ministry of the holy spirit, is not restricted by the logos word.
yet because of wrong foundations, they are stuck in the same puddle growing webbed feet. or never growing , or choked by the weeds etc
( whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.")
 
Locutus

Locutus

Senior Member
#10
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
#10
I'm still not sure what point is being made in the opening post.
 
royalscot

royalscot

Banned
#11
Jan 27, 2013
4,769
18
0
#11
Locutus said:
I'm still not sure what point is being made in the opening post.
Click to expand...
if your not sure , then why did you post in the first place. at 64 year of age, i take it you can read. and if you cannot follow the scripture, quoted, then i would recommend going to bible class.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.