Paul's Thorn Was NOT A Sickness

[lesjude]

Please do not confuse a messenger of Satan sent to buffet Paul with Galatians 6:14-15. Thorn in the flesh is never used in scripture to speak of a sickness in OT or NT. See Numbers 33:55, Joshua 23:13, and Judges 2:3.
See 2 Corinthians 12:7. The word in the Greek for messenger, aggelos, never refers to a sickness or disease, but a person or personality. Paul also tells why the person/personality was sent. Most do not qualify for the thorn.
2 Corinthians 12:7

New King James Version (NKJV)

The Thorn in the Flesh

7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure.
The result of this messenger from Satan was all the violent persecutiom against Paul. This is in keeping with what the meaning is in both OT and NT.
2 Corinthians 12:9

New King James Version (NKJV)

9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.


Paul refers to his weakness meaning his own abilities to withstand the violent persecution i.e. beatings and being stoned do cause physical issues that could take time to heal (part of the thorn), travel, and preaching/teaching the gospel with signs following without the Holy Spirit. Note he contrasts weakness and strength not sickness and health. Here is where he boasted. Note sickness is not included. 2 Corinthians 11:22-32.
If fact in verse 30 infirmities is translated accurately as weaknesses.


Galatians 4:14-15

New King James Version (NKJV)

14 And my trial which was in my flesh you did not despise or reject, but you received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. 15 What[a] then was the blessing you enjoyed? For I bear you witness that, if possible, you would have plucked out your own eyes and given them to me.

These verses cannot be referring to the thorn in the flesh because it is the Greek aorist tense which makes it clear that the issue in question has ceased to exist. The "thorn" was not taken away. Notice the use of "was", past tense, meaning Paul was healed of what ever it was. The Bible does not say a believer will not get sick, but that if they do Jesus will heal them.
The phrase pluck out your eyes is a figure of speech like give you the shirt off my back. Even if it does refer to a disease Paul refers to it as cured/healed. Galatians 6:11 the word comes from the Greek pelikos which is used in the Septuagint in Zechariah 2:2 meaning length/width. In Galatians 6:11 it is not the size of the letters but its length.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

Gal 4:13 Ye know how through infirmity
G769
of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.
Gal 4:14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.
Gal 4:15 Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.
Gal 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

Joh 11:3 Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick.
Joh 11:4 When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness
G769
is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.

G769
ἀσθένεια
astheneia
as-then'-i-ah
From G772; feebleness (of body or mind); by implication malady; moral frailty: - disease, infirmity, sickness, weakness.

According to the previous verse, this was feebleness of body, otherwise why would the verse speak of poking out of eyes?

 

[Jon4TheCross]

Luk_13:11 And,G2532 behold,G2400 there wasG2258 a womanG1135 which hadG2192 a spiritG4151 of infirmityG769 eighteenG1176 G2532 G3638 years,G2094 andG2532 wasG2258 bowed together,G4794 andG2532 couldG1410 in no wiseG3361 G1519 G3838 lift upG352 herself.
Luk_13:12 AndG1161 when JesusG2424 sawG1492 her,G846 he calledG4377 her to him, andG2532 saidG2036 unto her,G846 Woman,G1135 thou art loosedG630 from thineG4675 infirmity.G769
Joh_5:5 AndG1161 a certainG5100 manG444 wasG2258 there,G1563 which hadG2192 an(G1722) infirmityG769 thirty and eightG5144 G3638 years.G2094
Rom_6:19 I speakG3004 after the manner of menG442 becauseG1223 of theG3588 infirmityG769 of yourG5216 flesh:G4561 forG1063 asG5618 ye have yieldedG3936 yourG5216 membersG3196 servantsG1400 to uncleannessG167 andG2532 to iniquityG458 untoG1519 iniquity;G458 even soG3779 nowG3568 yieldG3936 yourG5216 membersG3196 servantsG1400 to righteousnessG1343 untoG1519 holiness.G38
Gal_4:13 Ye(G1161) knowG1492 howG3754 throughG1223 infirmityG769 of theG3588 fleshG4561 I preached the gospelG2097 unto youG5213 at the first.G4386
Heb_5:2 Who canG1410 have compassionG3356 on theG3588 ignorant,G50 andG2532 on them that are out of the way;G4105 for thatG1893 heG846 himself alsoG2532 is compassed withG4029 infirmity.G769
Heb_7:28 ForG1063 theG3588 lawG3551 makethG2525 menG444 high priestsG749 which haveG2192 infirmity;G769 butG1161 theG3588 wordG3056 of theG3588 oath,G3728 whichG3588 was sinceG3326 theG3588 law,G3551 maketh the Son,G5207 who is consecratedG5048 for evermore.G1519 G165

These are the other scriptures with infirmity, so you can decide the word definition for yourself by the way they are used.

 

[Indubitably]

I appreciate your in depth study of this point but I am Greek and understand the flow of the text.

If we look at the context of Paul's thorn in the flesh, we find that infirmity does not mean sickness in 2 Corinthians 12:9 and 10. In 2 Corinthians 11:30, Paul uses the exact terminology of "glorying in infirmities" that is used just a few verses later in speaking about this thorn. In the eleventh chapter he had just finished listing what those infirmities were. In verses 23-29, he lists such things as imprisonment, stripes, shipwrecks, and stonings; none of these speak of sickness. Verse 27 mentions weakness and painfulness, which some have tried to make mean sickness, but it is just as possible he could have been weary and suffered painfulness from such things as being stoned and left for dead (Acts 14:19). All these things listed in 2 Corinthians 11 refer to persecutions as infirmities. So, in context, Paul's thorn was a demonic angel or messenger sent by Satan which continually stirred up persecution against him. This is also verified by three Old Testament references (Num. 33:55; Josh. 23:13 and Judg. 2:3), where people are spoken of as being "thorns in your sides" and "thorns in your eyes."

Paul asked the Lord to remove persecution from him, not sickness, and the Lord told him His grace was sufficient. We are not redeemed from persecution, and Paul later stated that when he said in 2 Timothy 3:12, "All that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution." Most gladly, therefore, he gloried in persecutions, reproaches, necessities, and distresses that the power of Christ might rest upon him (2 Cor. 12:9). The word "glory" is an old English word which means to have dominion over or command. It is used in Exodus 8:9 where Moses told Pharaoh to glory over him, or command him, when to destroy the frogs. So when Paul spoke of glorying in these infirmities or persecutions, he was speaking of victory even in the midst of continual harassment.

In Acts 14:19, Paul was stoned and left for dead, but God raised him up, and the next day he walked at least twenty miles into the next town and started preaching again. The Lord did not stop the persecution, but God's strength was certainly made perfect in Paul's weakness (verse 9). Can you imagine what those that stoned him must have thought? They could see Paul's humanity in the cuts and bruises, but they could also see the supernatural strength of God flowing through him. "For when I am weak, then am I strong" (verse 10).

 

[Jon4TheCross]

Why the mention of the plucking out of the eyes then?

 

[WolfInOxHide]

I believe Paul's thorn in the flesh came from a certain idea that he wasn't careful with at some point. And that it is stuck under his skin still causing him grief.

I believe this idea was the thought that he had actually been given "perfection", as though he was (possibly the first) man to successfully and completely sell out and follow Christ as commissioned, without actually having been personally chosen until after the resurrection.

I think he was too humble to admit it to himself, yet too wise and observant to dismiss it, yes, even through the revelations as he put it, meaning it had been shown to him.
If he's aware of the balance, then really, he's probably right where he needs to be and got his revelation right there.

But he keeps grieving over it and won't accept the greatest grace possible, to hear and believe "You totally aced it my humble child."

I believe the messenger from satan is exactly what a messenger from satan always is. An accusation.
A voice suggesting to him both "you are not worthy" and "take pride" at the same time. A snake that goes side to side.

Humbly trying to resist proven sanctification. It really would be a tough struggle if you think about it.
You know how it is when you really don't want to accept a gift, but you know you must...
Imagine the only one that could endanger you of exalting yourself beyond measure?

How could we ever hear "well done my good and faithful servant" and have the audacity to agree?
Yet it is sometimes said and proven.

And that's Paul's thorn I think.
Digression to Grace.

 

[Cobus]

Try this one for PAUL'S thorn in the flesh...
2Ti_4:13 The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring with thee, and the books, but especially the parchments.
This cloke Paul left in Carpus, people ised to lay this cloke on the sick, and they would get healed. But hen Paul had to accept this good friend's illness....

2Ti_4:20 Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.
We know Paul healed many people, even unbelievers, and raised some from the dead... but this fello Christian he left sick, that was not easy for Paul to accept, but HE HAD too, because GOD is still the one that has to keep PAUL in humble obedience. God did this with the thought.... "I left Erastus sick in Miletum".... Every time Paul thought of Miletum or Erastus, he was humbled, that GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL OVER PAUL. That is hy Paul says this about the thorn....
2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations,

Paul not only performed MANY miricles, but He also saw MANY REVELATIONS... Had many conversations with the Lord, and SAW GOD'S WORD REALIZE right in from of his eyes. To keep Paul humble through ALL this GODLY HAPPENINGS, God kept Paul in check, HUMBLE!

The PLUCK OUT YOUR EYES were Paul showing them how they ONCE greatly regarded PAUL. They had a great regard for Paul and what he preached... but Paul only ailment at old age was his eyes were not as sharp as MOSES's. Paul wrote many letters from the jails he was in, and i do not think they all had good lighting, so some letters were written in bad light, that is why Paul sometimes used other people to write what he dictated... but this is the verse that showed some-times he had to write it himself, to have MORE effect and he had to write in large letters... Gal 6:11 Ye see how large a letter I have written unto you with mine own hand.
Just a thought, not important at all for our salvation though, it is a possiblity.... What I do know about Paul, is that he did suffer a lot as Jesus said he would..... And that I praise the Lord, that HE CAN MAKE PAUL SO OBEDIENT AND STRONG. AMEN!

Lord thank you for Your Truth, please UNITE us to YOUR BODY, AMEN!

 

[crossnote]

So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
(2Co 12:7-9)

I simply believe it is as the text says...'a messenger of satan'.

 

[lesjude]

Try this one for PAUL'S thorn in the flesh...
2Ti_4:13 The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring with thee, and the books, but especially the parchments.
This cloke Paul left in Carpus, people ised to lay this cloke on the sick, and they would get healed. But hen Paul had to accept this good friend's illness....

What Bible do you read. What you have quoted says nothing about anyone being sick or Paul using his cloak for anything but to keep warm.

2Ti_4:20 Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.
We know Paul healed many people, even unbelievers, and raised some from the dead... but this fello Christian he left sick, that was not easy for Paul to accept, but HE HAD too, because GOD is still the one that has to keep PAUL in humble obedience. God did this with the thought.... "I left Erastus sick in Miletum".... Every time Paul thought of Miletum or Erastus, he was humbled, that GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL OVER PAUL. That is hy Paul says this about the thorn....

It was Trophimus he left sick. Christians are not promised they will not have trails with sickness but that they will be healed. Paul prayed, believed it done on the basis of Hebrews 11:1 and Mark 11:24 and left on Kingdom business. Healings unlike miracles take time. The man may have had heart issues that were delaying healing and needed to seek God until he got right. Or God was training him to have faith for himself for healing and be not dependent on Paul or anyone but God.

2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations,

Paul not only performed MANY miricles, but He also saw MANY REVELATIONS... Had many conversations with the Lord, and SAW GOD'S WORD REALIZE right in from of his eyes. To keep Paul humble through ALL this GODLY HAPPENINGS, God kept Paul in check, HUMBLE!

The PLUCK OUT YOUR EYES were Paul showing them how they ONCE greatly regarded PAUL. They had a great regard for Paul and what he preached... but Paul only ailment at old age was his eyes were not as sharp as MOSES's. Paul wrote many letters from the jails he was in, and i do not think they all had good lighting, so some letters were written in bad light, that is why Paul sometimes used other people to write what he dictated... but this is the verse that showed some-times he had to write it himself, to have MORE effect and he had to write in large letters... Gal 6:11 Ye see how large a letter I have written unto you with mine own hand.
Just a thought, not important at all for our salvation though, it is a possiblity.... What I do know about Paul, is that he did suffer a lot as Jesus said he would..... And that I praise the Lord, that HE CAN MAKE PAUL SO OBEDIENT AND STRONG. AMEN!

Lord thank you for Your Truth, please UNITE us to YOUR BODY, AMEN!

Please read the OP again because all these issues about the "thorn" and eye disease are addressed by scripture.

 

[lesjude]

So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
(2Co 12:7-9)

I simply believe it is as the text says...'a messenger of satan'.

Which refers to a spiritual personality not a sickness.

 

[lesjude]

Why the mention of the plucking out of the eyes then?

The phrase pluck out your eyes is a figure of speech like give you the shirt off my back. Even if it does refer to a disease Paul refers to it as cured/healed. Galatians 6:11 the word comes from the Greek pelikos which is used in the Septuagint in Zechariah 2:2 meaning length/width. In Galatians 6:11 it is not the size of the letters but its length.

 

[lesjude]

I appreciate your in depth study of this point but I am Greek and understand the flow of the text.

If we look at the context of Paul's thorn in the flesh, we find that infirmity does not mean sickness in 2 Corinthians 12:9 and 10. In 2 Corinthians 11:30, Paul uses the exact terminology of "glorying in infirmities" that is used just a few verses later in speaking about this thorn. In the eleventh chapter he had just finished listing what those infirmities were. In verses 23-29, he lists such things as imprisonment, stripes, shipwrecks, and stonings; none of these speak of sickness. Verse 27 mentions weakness and painfulness, which some have tried to make mean sickness, but it is just as possible he could have been weary and suffered painfulness from such things as being stoned and left for dead (Acts 14:19). All these things listed in 2 Corinthians 11 refer to persecutions as infirmities. So, in context, Paul's thorn was a demonic angel or messenger sent by Satan which continually stirred up persecution against him. This is also verified by three Old Testament references (Num. 33:55; Josh. 23:13 and Judg. 2:3), where people are spoken of as being "thorns in your sides" and "thorns in your eyes."

Paul asked the Lord to remove persecution from him, not sickness, and the Lord told him His grace was sufficient. We are not redeemed from persecution, and Paul later stated that when he said in 2 Timothy 3:12, "All that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution." Most gladly, therefore, he gloried in persecutions, reproaches, necessities, and distresses that the power of Christ might rest upon him (2 Cor. 12:9). The word "glory" is an old English word which means to have dominion over or command. It is used in Exodus 8:9 where Moses told Pharaoh to glory over him, or command him, when to destroy the frogs. So when Paul spoke of glorying in these infirmities or persecutions, he was speaking of victory even in the midst of continual harassment.

In Acts 14:19, Paul was stoned and left for dead, but God raised him up, and the next day he walked at least twenty miles into the next town and started preaching again. The Lord did not stop the persecution, but God's strength was certainly made perfect in Paul's weakness (verse 9). Can you imagine what those that stoned him must have thought? They could see Paul's humanity in the cuts and bruises, but they could also see the supernatural strength of God flowing through him. "For when I am weak, then am I strong" (verse 10).

May I please use this explanation?

 

[Jon4TheCross]

I believe Paul's thorn in the flesh came from a certain idea that he wasn't careful with at some point. And that it is stuck under his skin still causing him grief.

I believe this idea was the thought that he had actually been given "perfection", as though he was (possibly the first) man to successfully and completely sell out and follow Christ as commissioned, without actually having been personally chosen until after the resurrection.

I think he was too humble to admit it to himself, yet too wise and observant to dismiss it, yes, even through the revelations as he put it, meaning it had been shown to him.
If he's aware of the balance, then really, he's probably right where he needs to be and got his revelation right there.

But he keeps grieving over it and won't accept the greatest grace possible, to hear and believe "You totally aced it my humble child."

I believe the messenger from satan is exactly what a messenger from satan always is. An accusation.
A voice suggesting to him both "you are not worthy" and "take pride" at the same time. A snake that goes side to side.

Humbly trying to resist proven sanctification. It really would be a tough struggle if you think about it.
You know how it is when you really don't want to accept a gift, but you know you must...
Imagine the only one that could endanger you of exalting yourself beyond measure?

How could we ever hear "well done my good and faithful servant" and have the audacity to agree?
Yet it is sometimes said and proven.

And that's Paul's thorn I think.
Digression to Grace.

You didn't answer the question. Why the mention of the plucking out of the eyes?

To clarify, why does plucking out of the eyes have to do with infirmity? You really did not answer the qustion with the shirt off the back idea, cause the mention of the plucking out of the eyes is in no way simply asking for something that goes on the outside of the flesh, plucking out of the eyes indicates infirmity of the eyes.