QUESTIONS ABOUT INTELLIGENCE and WORDS

dcontroversal · Jul 15, 2014

I have a few questions......

How many people understand the words...

Fail
Cease
Vanish AWAY

and

NOW ABIDETH

Let us use these words in a context understood....

The Mayan civilization was a vibrant empire and then began to FAIL <--what does this mean?
The Mayan civilization was to cease after a time <-----what does this mean?
The Mayan civilization was to vanish away <---what does this mean?

NOW ABIDETH the UNITED STATES <----what does this mean?

It is amazing how these words are so easily understood and then completely DENIED, REJECTED, OVERLOOKED, EXPLAINED AWAY and ANY other word(s) that apply when it comes to 1st Corinthians 13 and SPIRITUAL GIFTS!

WISDOM is justified of her children for sure!

Timeline · Jul 16, 2014

If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. [SUP]2 [/SUP]If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.[SUP]4 [/SUP]Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, [SUP]5 [/SUP]does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, [SUP]6 [/SUP]does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; [SUP]7 [/SUP]bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For we know in part and we prophesy in part; [SUP]10 [/SUP]but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. [SUP]11 [/SUP]When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. [SUP]12 [/SUP]For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.

This is an often debated topic. I have never seen any of the "gifts" (as I understand them to have been in the NT) personally. I don't know that I have even seen anyone pretend to "speak in tongues" or "prophesy" except maybe on television.

But I am not sure exactly what it means by knowledge will done away. Do you know the meaning of the Greek word used here? Does it mean "understanding"? It appears to be the word that forms gnostic.

It appears as
gnOsis
but I am not sure how it would be most accurately translated into English.

p_rehbein · Jul 16, 2014

It seems to me the core issue here are verses listed:

1[SUP]st[/SUP] Corinthians 13:8) Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 .) For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 .) But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 .) When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 .) For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 .) And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Given that, the question should be “When will these gifts of the Spirit pass away?” “When will they vanish away?”
What is the precise time of their vanishing/passing?
Is that what is being asked/debated?
“But when that which is perfect is come…….”

oldthennew · Jul 16, 2014

Timeline said,

But I am not sure exactly what it means by knowledge will done away. Do you know the meaning of the Greek word used here? Does it mean "understanding"? It appears to be the word that forms gnostic.

Paul said,

Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

1JOHN 3:2.
Beloved, now we are the children of God; and it has not yet been revealed
what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him,
for we shall see Him as He is.

we know that we 'shall know Him, even as He knows us' and we shall see Him,
as He is.'
so, why can't Paul, one of the greatest men of God, know FULLY?

ROMANS 7:17-18. (most are very familiar with 'the struggle'.)
But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells;...

the 'knowledge' that is vanishing away = is the 'Spiritual Knowledge abiding
right-next-door to the 'sinful knowledge of man'.
no matter how 'righteous' a man is, he can never come to the knowledge of
The Spiritually Resurrected Man.

REVELATION 21:4.
And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death,
nor sorrow, nor crying, there shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.

damombomb · Jul 16, 2014

1Cor2:4…3I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling, 4and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.

dcontroversal · Jul 16, 2014

p_rehbein said:

That being perfect (complete) which is what the word means...

But when that which is complete is come...as in the WORD OF GOD and the completion of the bible as the gifts in question where there to SUBSTANTIATE the MESSAGE and the MESSENGER until that which is COMPLETE is come...THE COMPLETED WORD OF GOD<----John the LAST APOSTLE finished it in 95 A.D.........

p_rehbein · Jul 16, 2014

QUOTE:

That being perfect (complete) which is what the word means...

But when that which is complete is come...as in the WORD OF GOD and the completion of the bible as the gifts in question where there to SUBSTANTIATE the MESSAGE and the MESSENGER until that which is COMPLETE is come...THE COMPLETED WORD OF GOD<----John the LAST APOSTLE finished it in 95 A.D.........

END QUOTATION............

......uh, and you DO HAVE the exact Scripture that states this? Oh, no, wait, it's just your interpretation.......ok. never mind.......

So, IF we accept your idea.........then NOW that we HAVE the Bible...........EVERYONE can attest that this has been fulfilled right? ................ For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.13 .) And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

dcontroversal · Jul 16, 2014

p_rehbein said:

No, it is based upon grammar in context and going with what the work PEARFECT meant to a first century CHRISTIAN...

Paul's use of shall fail, shall cease and shall vanish away are tied to that which is complete that is COMING.....

and I could just as easily use the same argument that you use or anyone else uses to justify their stance.....

Oh, no, wait, it's just your interpretation.......ok. never mind....... HAH!

dcontroversal · Jul 16, 2014

I also guess that most who claim the ability to heal are lacking in their abilities as the men of the bible who could heal, could ALSO RAISE THE DEAD!......So why do they only get to do half healing and are lacking the ability to raise the dead?

p_rehbein · Jul 16, 2014

Verses 8 through 13 are one complete thought...........to extract verse 10 and give an interpretation of it alone isn't right is it?

and it remains your opinion/interpretation........unless you have a Scripture stating that what you say is exactly what Paul meant...........and, yes, the argument can go both ways..........but I haven't put forth an interpretation, just gave Scripture.

p_rehbein · Jul 16, 2014

I also guess that most who claim the ability to heal are lacking in their abilities as the men of the bible who could heal, could ALSO RAISE THE DEAD!......So why do they only get to do half healing and are lacking the ability to raise the dead?

===============================

Must have been for someone else............not me............so, I'll ignore it...........

kennethcadwell · Jul 16, 2014

Because the bible makes it clear that not everybody gets all the same gifts from the Holy Spirit.
Some get one, some might get two or three, some may get more. That is for the Holy Spirit to decide who gets what spiritual gifts.

dcontroversal said:

dcontroversal · Jul 16, 2014

kennethcadwell said:

Really...then point me to the ones who have the abilities to raise the dead.....!

kennethcadwell · Jul 16, 2014

dcontroversal said:

I did not say I knew of any that can raise the dead still. What I said was the Holy Spirit gives the gifts to each person as He decides needs to be done for the will of God.

If He does not give a person that ability to raise the dead, does not mean He does not give the other gifts either.

Plus just think, this would have to be a gift that is done in secret like our Lord said things should be done is.

If that would be done in this day and age in a open setting, it would become a major stumbling block for a lot of people.
A lot of Christians and non-Christians alike would be screaming satan, devil, witchcraft, and running for cover to get away from such a person.

This world is falling so quickly in a non-belief society.

dcontroversal · Jul 16, 2014

kennethcadwell said:

Your logic is flawed to some extent Kenneth...

Jesus, Paul, Peter etc. all raised the dead in the OPEN for all to see as it was there to SUBSTANTIATE the messenger and the message....

RedTent · Jul 16, 2014

Timeline said:

There will come a time that all prophecy will be fulfilled, but love will still endure. Tongues and knowledge will not be needed when Christ returns, but love will remain.

kennethcadwell · Jul 16, 2014

Yes, but the message is ever present now and does not need to be established in that manner.

And like I said to many would flee from the faith if this was done openly now. Look at how many Christians get scared and stumble when they hear about talking in tongues.

If they stumble that badly in just the speaking in tongues, how badly do you think they will stumble if some one actually got brought back to life. It would scare the heck out of a lot of people, and have them run from the faith instead of to the faith in Jesus Christ.

So if it would cause more to fall, then it would cause to come to the gospel then it would not be profitable/esteeming.

Example: The girl in Columbine who was shot to death for not refusing Jesus Christ. God allowed this to happen do to by her laying down her life for Christ, it brought thousands more to come to Christ.

Ones lose of life ( physical death ) to save thousands of others.

dcontroversal said:

jer2911 · Aug 6, 2014

dcontroversal said:

By what you commented, I'M DEAD! Now who wants to raise me? Time-out. Chill and not CHILLI.

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QUESTIONS ABOUT INTELLIGENCE and WORDS

dcontroversal

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Timeline

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p_rehbein

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oldthennew

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damombomb

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dcontroversal

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p_rehbein

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dcontroversal

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dcontroversal

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