Sabbathkeepers and their false view of history

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sparkman

Guest
#1
#1
Here's a link to a PDF document that disproves the distorted version of history that many Sabbathkeepers convey when trying to convince people that the Sabbath still applies:

http://lifeassuranceministries.com/pdf files/LYING FOR GOD.pdf

It's basically a conspiracy theory mentality that proposes the Roman Catholic church abolished the Sabbath and enforced Sunday observance instead...however it's absurd because the Roman Catholic church didn't even exist when the church abandoned Sabbath observance.

I am particularly addressing the claims of Armstrongites (United Church of God, Philadelphia Church of God, Living Church of God, and Restored Church of God) and the Seventh Day Adventist church, and not every single Sabbathkeeper. There are Sabbath keepers who do not hold the views represented in this document. If someone observes the Sabbath out of preference or personal conviction without claiming others are unconverted, in sin or inferior, I have no issue with them.

The typical view of the cultic Sabbath keepers is that the Great Prostitute of Revelation 17 is the Roman Catholic Church and the "daughters" of the Great Prostitute are the Sunday observing Protestants associated with her. They relate Sunday observance with worship of the Sun and consider Sabbath Breaking or Sunday observance to be the Mark of the Beast.

Some of the organizations try to hide the fact that they have this view, but ask the person who claims this if he himself holds this view, and watch the backpedalling. He probably won't answer your question directly, but will attempt to evade it.

I was part of an Armstrongite group for over 10 years so I know their tactics.

By the way, the reasons I mention this occasionally are 1) I want those individuals who hold these beliefs to be exposed so that they have to justify their own position (I am hoping it will lead them to repentance) and 2) I want seekers to know what they teach so that they don't get involved in their nonsense. I wish someone had forced me to "own" my heresies so that I would have been forced to defend them. Maybe I would have left the group long before I did.

I consider those who hold this view of Revelation 17 to be heretics and potential unbelievers. And, if they don't like these remarks, just consider that you yourself are making similar claims about Sunday observers. :)
 
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sparkman

Guest
#2
#2
Since Ellen G. White had a vision that the Roman Catholic church changed the Sabbath to Sunday, by implication she is a false prophetess. Since the claim of the SDAs is that they are the remnant church (the true Church) is based on 1) keeping the Ten Commandments (specifically the Sabbath) and 2) the spirit of prophecy (which relates directly to Ellen G. White), it destroys their credibility if the Roman Catholic Church didn't cause the change of Christian observance.

As the document indicates, their own SDA scholar Samuele Bacchiocchi agrees that the day of Christian observance was not changed by the Roman Catholic church (as it didn't even exist then), but was changed prior to AD150.

See the list of early church fathers who made remarks in regards to Sunday observance before AD325, when many SDAs believe Constantine changed the day of observance at the Council of Nicea.

By the way, Constantine did mandate a Sunday rest day in AD324 (not AD325 at the Council of Nicea) but he did not disallow anyone from observing the Sabbath. Besides that, the vast majority of Christians weren't observing the Sabbath anyways.

Early Christians obviously understood Colossians 2:16-17 in regards to the Sabbath and festivals being shadows, and the fact that the Old Covenant was done away with (Acts 15, II Corinthians 3, Galatians 3 and 4, Hebrews 8 and 9, Romans 7:1-6, Ephesians 2:13-15).
 
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tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#3
Mar 13, 2014
41,330
16,310
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Tennessee
#3
Jesus said that where 2 or 3 are gathered in His name that He would be in the midst of them. That is the true church.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#4
#4
It's such silliness. All these cults, with their extra-Biblical prophets, have been proven false prophets. I forget all the details, but the Millerites, Russell and White had apocalypse dates or the like, proven false. Their doctrines contradict Bible teachings. What's silly is how people still flock to these discredited, false prophets, and I'd not exclude Popes.

In the case of these "latter day prophets," I can't really figure the mentality that God waited until the 19th or 20th century to get His gospel straight, left all the generations, before these so-called prophets, high and dry of the whole truth? Duh! I think not. I believe the Lord Jesus and the first century apostles were capable of getting the whole job done in scripture. Revelation states that's "all she wrote,' as the saying goes.

Only thing I've ever been able to figure is that the narcissistic notion you're one of the special, chosen group, better than everybody else, is more appealing than truth. And ego usually is, to the downfall of even Satan. This is a why a sola scriptura faith, based only on God's word, is so important. I, flatout, reject all so-called extra-Biblical prophets, period, and if the Bible doesn't confirm anybody's teaching, to a 99% level, at least, I'm done listening. Even some mainstream denominations can be cultic, in that they have the doctrines of some man that separates them. It is just like Paul pointing out the error back then,

1 Corinthians 1:10-13 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

As the Bible also states, there's really nothing new under the sun. Teachings like this even go in one ear, and out the other with these cult people,

Romans 14:1-6 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

I also have to wonder about people who love legalistic doctrines of demons more than truth. Is the Holy Spirit failing them? I'd say of course not. Then what spirit is in control?
 
R

RobbyEarl

Guest
#5
#5
Jesus is the Sabbath we rest Him.
 
G

gotime

Senior Member
#6
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
48
#6
sparkman said:
Since Ellen G. White had a vision that the Roman Catholic church changed the Sabbath to Sunday, by implication she is a false prophetess. Since the claim of the SDAs is that they are the remnant church (the true Church) is based on 1) keeping the Ten Commandments (specifically the Sabbath) and 2) the spirit of prophecy (which relates directly to Ellen G. White), it destroys their credibility if the Roman Catholic Church didn't cause the change of Christian observance.

As the document indicates, their own SDA scholar Samuele Bacchiocchi agrees that the day of Christian observance was not changed by the Roman Catholic church (as it didn't even exist then), but was changed prior to AD150.

See the list of early church fathers who made remarks in regards to Sunday observance before AD325, when many SDAs believe Constantine changed the day of observance at the Council of Nicea.

By the way, Constantine did mandate a Sunday rest day in AD324 (not AD325 at the Council of Nicea) but he did not disallow anyone from observing the Sabbath. Besides that, the vast majority of Christians weren't observing the Sabbath anyways.

Early Christians obviously understood Colossians 2:16-17 in regards to the Sabbath and festivals being shadows, and the fact that the Old Covenant was done away with (Acts 15, II Corinthians 3, Galatians 3 and 4, Hebrews 8 and 9, Romans 7:1-6, Ephesians 2:13-15).
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Brother just a helpful hint. You would be wise to be more thorough in your study of the Adventist view. being that we know full well that sunday as a day of worship came about long before the Catholic church played their part. We are well aware of the many historical accounts of sunday worship within the church starting quite early after the apostles.

Also the many historical accounts of Sabbath keeping from the early church to this day. The reason we talk about the Catholic churches involvement in later history is because it is related directly to prophecy. It is not the reason we keep the Sabbath itself. The reasons for keeping it are centered in Christ and His word. The Historical account is based on Prophecy and thus we do not speak much on the occurrence of Sunday keeping before then because it is not mentioned in prophecy. Prophecy only picks up on the movements of the Catholic involvement thus we focus n the Prophetically relevant material associated with the sunday movement.
 
tanakh

tanakh

Senior Member
#8
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
1,040
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#8
People who belong to these groups are not wicked Apostates. For the most part they are unsaved or have a very loose attachment to any recognized church. Groups such as the SDA thrive because new recruits are largely ignorant of what the Bible teaches and are flattered that they are receiving so much friendly attention. The Mormons amaze me, because their teachings are so preposterous it is hard to believe anyone could be taken in by them and yet they have managed to hood wink thousands for well over a hundred years! It is interesting that although they originated in the USA, their early successes took place in Britain!
 
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coby

Guest
#9
#9
Don't judge anyone on keeping feasts or sabbaths. One believes there is a special day, others don't.
If a Jew accepts Yeshua I don't tell him to eat pork now and go to church on sunday. It doesn't matter as long as people don't forget to enter His rest and I feel for everyone who does things because you have to. The love of Christ draws me said Paul.
Some Messianics see it as a delight. You can spend time with Him. Great.
I heard teachings on how we are to give our tithes of time to God. That's 2.4 hours a day you had to spend in prayer and such. Lol someone said: that's why there is a sabbath. Same idea: you have to, you have to. I did it for a while. Looked at the watch. Finally. I can do something for myself. Our whole life is from Him, not 1 day or a tenth.
Everyone keeps sabbath. Well here almost noone works 7 days a week, there's a weekend. It's not healthy. It's also not healthy to burn out because you don't rest in Him.
The whole thing is just that you're still not resting from your own works.
 
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sparkman

Guest
#11
#11
gotime said:
Brother just a helpful hint. You would be wise to be more thorough in your study of the Adventist view. being that we know full well that sunday as a day of worship came about long before the Catholic church played their part. We are well aware of the many historical accounts of sunday worship within the church starting quite early after the apostles.

Also the many historical accounts of Sabbath keeping from the early church to this day. The reason we talk about the Catholic churches involvement in later history is because it is related directly to prophecy. It is not the reason we keep the Sabbath itself. The reasons for keeping it are centered in Christ and His word. The Historical account is based on Prophecy and thus we do not speak much on the occurrence of Sunday keeping before then because it is not mentioned in prophecy. Prophecy only picks up on the movements of the Catholic involvement thus we focus n the Prophetically relevant material associated with the sunday movement.
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At what point did the SDA church become aware of this; after Samuele Bacchiocchi's book?

Ellen White's vision apparently was false, as she said the pope changed the day of observance from Saturday to Sunday:

I saw that the Sabbath commandment was not nailed to the cross. If it was, the other nine commandments were; and we are at liberty to break them all, as well as to break the fourth. I saw that God had not changed the Sabbath, for He never changes. But the pope had changed it from the seventh to the first day of the week; for he was to change times and laws [Daniel 7:25]. -- Ellen White, A word to the Little Flock, page 18, paragraph 3, and Early Writings, page 32, paragraph 3.

This remark indicates that might have been the juncture: In 1977 Bacchiocchi published From Sabbath to Sunday, documenting the historical transition from the Saturday Sabbath to Sunday in the early Christian church due to social, pagan and political factors, and also the decline of standards for the day.[SUP][7][/SUP] The book made an impact on the wider academic community outside of Adventism, as well as within Adventism. Prior to his work, Seventh-day Adventists had focused on the role played by either the Pope, or by Roman Emperor Constantine I in the transition from Sabbath to Sunday, with Constantine's law declaring Sunday as a day of rest for those not involved in farming work. Subsequent to Bacchiocchi's work, Adventists have emphasized that the shift from Sabbath to Sunday was a more gradual process.

However, at least one SDA I know still believes that Constantine had a role at Nicea in this, although the only mention that I see concerning him being involved with anything regarding rest days happened the year before Nicea and did not prohibit working on the Sabbath; it mandated Sunday observance and it was more of a humanitarian gesture toward those who were not being allowed to rest whatsoever.

By the way, by Ellen G. White's logic, if God never changes the way he deals with people, physical circumcision and animal sacrifices would still be applicable.
 
S

sparkman

Guest
#12
#12
coby said:
Don't judge anyone on keeping feasts or sabbaths. One believes there is a special day, others don't.
If a Jew accepts Yeshua I don't tell him to eat pork now and go to church on sunday. It doesn't matter as long as people don't forget to enter His rest and I feel for everyone who does things because you have to. The love of Christ draws me said Paul.
Some Messianics see it as a delight. You can spend time with Him. Great.
I heard teachings on how we are to give our tithes of time to God. That's 2.4 hours a day you had to spend in prayer and such. Lol someone said: that's why there is a sabbath. Same idea: you have to, you have to. I did it for a while. Looked at the watch. Finally. I can do something for myself. Our whole life is from Him, not 1 day or a tenth.
Everyone keeps sabbath. Well here almost noone works 7 days a week, there's a weekend. It's not healthy. It's also not healthy to burn out because you don't rest in Him.
The whole thing is just that you're still not resting from your own works.
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I agree. I have issues with those who claim the rest of Christianity is part of the Great Prostitute of Revelation 17. My understanding is that the SDAs still teach this, whether they acknowledge it officially or not. I know the Armstrongites teach that others are under the Great Prostitute of Revelation 17.

If someone wants to observe the Sabbath, festivals and clean/unclean laws without claiming others are part of Babylon I don't care....for their own benefit, they need to make sure they understand justification by faith alone and that they don't think observances earn, merit or continue their own salvation.
 
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