Should we read scripture with logic or simply acceptance?

[RedTent]

When I tried to understand Genesis with my common sense, logical mind, I really got bewildered and lost. It says six days, plain, and my teacher at school said that wasn’t so. So, I asked God to tell me why and how. God never did, God only said He created the world, that was so and gave me all that means to me and how I live.

Often I would tell the Lord that if He said this then logic follows that something else is also true, and You, my Lord, are not making logical sense. For instance God says we aren’t under law but grace, and God says He watches our obedience. So what is it Lord? Took me years of prayerful listening to figure that one out.

As I studied, God didn’t do much ever for my logic and common sense. Ever. God told me how it is, and on top of that God told me He was like my Father telling me how it is, I was like a child He created. He said His mind was above my mind, so if I wanted to live like it really is, follow Him. He created me.

I think we are to follow scripture, not with logic and common sense, but with humility. On the other hand, God is order and He times things right down to the minute. That follows common sense and logic. Is that only a paradox?

 

[Blain]

You see that's what I love about God, To a scientific mind or a logical mind none of this makes sense or is even realistic. They see a miracle healing and think there has to be a logical explanation to this. The Bible of course can only be understood by not think according to the logical mind. It's a supernatural book for a reason and it's power does not make sense to the average mind.

Humility is one of most favorite traits of Jesus and my favorite one to practice, now whether that helps me with understanding the bible i don't know.

 

[jerusalem]

it is impossible to please God without faith yet He also said to come to Him and reason together......blind faith isnt faith at all. the famous serenity prayer shows where to draw the lines.....just following the blindly has disasterous effects like waco and jamestown it is up to us to use our minds but rightly so or we wouldnt need a renewing of the mind. the whole self is involved in true worship including the mind and logic. if not you can be easily led astray

 

[RedTent]

it is impossible to please God without faith yet He also said to come to Him and reason together......blind faith isnt faith at all. the famous serenity prayer shows where to draw the lines.....just following the blindly has disasterous effects like waco and jamestown it is up to us to use our minds but rightly so or we wouldnt need a renewing of the mind. the whole self is involved in true worship including the mind and logic. if not you can be easily led astray

t always amazes me how our Lord is a God of balance. It is true, I am sure, that we must accept His words as a child accepts those of a father. If we take that so far that we are simply vulnerable, especially to men's leading, and we don't engage our mind we are going too far the other way for God instructs us to renew our minds. It is balance. Thank you!

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

whenever you are reading scripture you are using logic or common sense to some degree...otherwise you would never figure anything out...

for example...interpreting the parables implies logic and analogy reasoning...

 

[livingepistle]

To the Thread OP:

“Logic is a mental tool used for reasoning and since more than one definition of reasoning exists, we concern ourselves with the subject of “valid” reasoning. Knowledge is the wellspring of valid reasoning. The wellspring is an accumulation of knowledge gained from environmental experiences over the lifespan of the individual.” If an individual’s experiences is limited to the physical environment that they live, any new external knowledge gained (by reading or story telling) warp with what has already been accepted as valid/real.

Westerners, “Me” included, tend to warp new knowledge gained with what we, over our lifespan have accepted as a natural way of life, the valid way of life, or the way things function; our culture. Moreover, we tend to see the entire world from our perspective.

Concerning logic and the Bible, we attempt to study or understand it by using the natural process of logic in the same manner. Simply stated, many of the examples the Bible use are references from very different cultures. This more often than not, causes confusion and misinterpretation because of mismatched cross-cultural references.

For example, the OT scribes makes use of ancient Hebrew culture to describe G-d with natural similarities that were familiar to them within the environment that they lived. In similar fashion, the NT use Greek culture, etc. etc.

Our Bible does not use Western culture similarities as a reference—it uses Greek and Hebrew. In many cases, to understand Biblical references it must be with the understanding of that culture as a foundation (wellspring) for knowledge. That is only half the battle.

The Apostle Paul struggled briefly with the same issues as we. As we use secular knowledge by habit to make “valid”, Paul used his PhD equivalent knowledge of law in an attempt to understand Jesus or Spiritual matters. Paul abandoned all he had learned and in essence went “back to school”; i.e., the “Jesus University of spiritual understanding”.

Philippians 3:7 "But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. 8] Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,"

1 Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

Our carnal knowledge cannot make “valid” spiritual knowledge without the wellspring of that knowledge, which is “The Spirit”. To make valid we must live within that spiritual environment. To live within that spiritual environment, an individual must live “within” Christ Jesus. How we live within him deserves you creating another thread to get answers.

Open to all comments

 

[notuptome]

The natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit they are foolishness to him. 1 Cor 2:14 1 Cor 2:9 is good. The Holy Spirit leads and guides those who are saved into the truth of Gods word. John 16:13

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[RedTent]

To the Thread OP:

“Logic is a mental tool used for reasoning and since more than one definition of reasoning exists, we concern ourselves with the subject of “valid” reasoning. Knowledge is the wellspring of valid reasoning. The wellspring is an accumulation of knowledge gained from environmental experiences over the lifespan of the individual.” If an individual’s experiences is limited to the physical environment that they live, any new external knowledge gained (by reading or story telling) warp with what has already been accepted as valid/real.

Westerners, “Me” included, tend to warp new knowledge gained with what we, over our lifespan have accepted as a natural way of life, the valid way of life, or the way things function; our culture. Moreover, we tend to see the entire world from our perspective.

Concerning logic and the Bible, we attempt to study or understand it by using the natural process of logic in the same manner. Simply stated, many of the examples the Bible use are references from very different cultures. This more often than not, causes confusion and misinterpretation because of mismatched cross-cultural references.

For example, the OT scribes makes use of ancient Hebrew culture to describe G-d with natural similarities that were familiar to them within the environment that they lived. In similar fashion, the NT use Greek culture, etc. etc.

Our Bible does not use Western culture similarities as a reference—it uses Greek and Hebrew. In many cases, to understand Biblical references it must be with the understanding of that culture as a foundation (wellspring) for knowledge. That is only half the battle.

The Apostle Paul struggled briefly with the same issues as we. As we use secular knowledge by habit to make “valid”, Paul used his PhD equivalent knowledge of law in an attempt to understand Jesus or Spiritual matters. Paul abandoned all he had learned and in essence went “back to school”; i.e., the “Jesus University of spiritual understanding”.

Philippians 3:7 "But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. 8] Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,"

1 Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

Our carnal knowledge cannot make “valid” spiritual knowledge without the wellspring of that knowledge, which is “The Spirit”. To make valid we must live within that spiritual environment. To live within that spiritual environment, an individual must live “within” Christ Jesus. How we live within him deserves you creating another thread to get answers.

Open to all comments

You took my thought and ran with it! There are many new threads in your post, a big expansion.

I am studying the OT with a man who spent eight years in the Holy Land studying ancient languages and that culture, and giving a verse by verse commentary with this background. It is as if he has opened curtains to our world. I took a class on how to read the NT letters by learning all about the people they were written to so we could better see the God principles they were talking about. Just for a start of your post!

You have said a lot! Thanks.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

here is a good example of how we use logic when we read the bible...look at john 1...

john begins by saying that 'the word' was God in john 1:1...and then in john 1:14 he says that the word became flesh and made his dwelling among us...this refers to jesus...

now we can use logical reasoning...
the word = God
jesus = the word
therefore...jesus = God

 

[maxwel]

Logic and faith are not opposites.
They are only opposites to an atheist.

God created both faith and reason.
Both are good; both are necessary.

God does not consider unbelief to be "reasonable."
Rather, God considers belief in Himself to be reasonable, and the atheist to be unreasonable.

Logic and faith are not opposites... but they are "different" than what the atheist supposes they are.

 

[Alysa825]

Acceptance! Trust in the Lord with all you heart, and LEAN NOT TO YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING. The word does not always make sense to the carnal mind, that's why we must follow him in spirit and in truth. You will find some logical examples of his word, but that's only after the holy spirit has taught you what it really means. The grace & obedience thing had me for a while too, but God finally broke it down for me about a month ago. In Galations it says that we are not to use God's grace as an opportunity for the flesh. In other words, don't think we can get by just living a sloppy sinful life. Living by grace means following God with our whole heart, but he won't hold it against us when we mess up every now and again because we are only human. That is why we need grace rather than the law. Living by the law is based on our actions and we are simply not perfect, but grace is about what's in your heart.

 

[RedTent]

here is a good example of how we use logic when we read the bible...look at john 1...

john begins by saying that 'the word' was God in john 1:1...and then in john 1:14 he says that the word became flesh and made his dwelling among us...this refers to jesus...

now we can use logical reasoning...
the word = God
jesus = the word
therefore...jesus = God

This is true, I don't disagree with you, but look at the story of creation. When you look carefully, it really doesn't say exactly how and when God created our world, only that we are to use the week division of time to celebrate it. Yet, by insisting that we have to have everything fit our logical minds, we have to know every detail, many have said that God told it wrong and therefore we can't trust God.

The Hebrews didn't use our logic and sequence thinking so they said oh, God is our creator and here is how God wants us to know about that. He would think all our questions were dumb.

When our Greek thinking arrived in the world about 2,500 years ago, it really shook things up in the world who knew God.

 

[Ariel82]

Scripture is logical if seen through spiritual eyes.

 

[Ariel82]

I ask God everything. He normally tells me He'll tell me later and to focus on what He wants me to do now.

reminds me of how kids will try and distract the teacher by asking a lot of questions off topic.

the point of Genesis is not to tell time but to tell of God's creation and His order given to humanity and the world.

some days I wonder if the world at one time did revolve around the sun in a circular instead of elipitical orbit but then because of sin the world was tilted and started orbiting the sun differently.

Science says the tilt changes very slightly and eventually the north pole will be pointing to the star Vegas instead of Polaris. It makes me wonder if God couldn't have had the world "perfect" but changed it. Its in the Bible but most people don't care enough about science and the Bible to even question the world's telling of history.

no proof though so its one of those things we put in the "ask God in Heaven" box and we instead if we approach those scriptures with a heart of a child, what would we learn?

my kids said it simply "God made the world, mom" with the tone of "duh"

lol.

 

[BananaPie]

Well, let's test the logic of the question.

The question is: Should we read Scripture with logic or simply acceptance?
The opposite would read: Should we read Scriptures with no logic or with difficulty reject it?

Do you see how the opposite doesn't make sense? Sometimes testing the validity of the premise in both positive & negative directions sheds light to the questions at hand. When God is sought for the sake of finding meaningful truths in life, then our thoughts are ordered "logically" by God Himself.

Let us never forget the wisdom set so very long ago... trust in the Lord with ALL your heart and lean not in your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct your path...

 

[crossnote]

There are three.
1. Man's reason and logic.
2. Traditions of man.
3. God's special revelation from His Word.

If one or two contradict #3 then #3 wins.
Otherwise #1 and #2 can be helpful in understanding #3.

Too much of #3 has been explained away by #1 and made of no effect by #2.

 

[vic1980]

What happend to fasting and prayer for understandning on his words

 

[jkalyna]

I ask God everything. He normally tells me He'll tell me later and to focus on what He wants me to do now.

reminds me of how kids will try and distract the teacher by asking a lot of questions off topic.

the point of Genesis is not to tell time but to tell of God's creation and His order given to humanity and the world.

some days I wonder if the world at one time did revolve around the sun in a circular instead of elipitical orbit but then because of sin the world was tilted and started orbiting the sun differently.

Science says the tilt changes very slightly and eventually the north pole will be pointing to the star Vegas instead of Polaris. It makes me wonder if God couldn't have had the world "perfect" but changed it. Its in the Bible but most people don't care enough about science and the Bible to even question the world's telling of history.

no proof though so its one of those things we put in the "ask God in Heaven" box and we instead if we approach those scriptures with a heart of a child, what would we learn?

my kids said it simply "God made the world, mom" with the tone of "duh"

lol.

yeah children is what Christ talked about that the kingdom of heaven is like the little child. Don't try to figure it out, accept the truth. Pilate asked what is truth? Can a person plan a bridge with another if the one does not know mathematics. He would not understand the language. huh? NO man knows the mind of God. God talks to us in ways we would be able to understand him, through the HOLy Spirit. Could you sit down and talk with the Creator, and understand how he makes the planets stay in place and space, how he created man? There is a differance in thinking God is directly talking to someone, it is not possible. I pray to God through Jesus but it is the HOly spirit that talks to us, as we have the HOly Spirit within as we accepted the LOrd. Yes they are one, but seperate beings. I don't believe that the world was made imperfect, and do not reason with science, or history, so I will not be a good candidate for your group. Those who try to figure the Creator out, either with science history, logic, or Christianity, will not succeed. It plainly says, " no man knows the mind of God. We are to have the mind of Christ, and the HOly Spirit is the direct communicator to us now since Christ ascended back to the Father. So this story ends, just as the child said, duh take it the way it is, and focus on the treasure's and cultivating holy fruit, and seeking after wisdom. Star gazers and how all this evolved is evolution theory's. I stick with the rel stuff, Jesus's hands were stronge enought to bear the weight of the sins of this world, and keep it here, on earth, for it's where God says, for God so loved the world, outer space, darkness, is just what it is, a big black hole.. What will you find in it, nothing, what will you find in a man's heart, everything, with Jesus is real, everything else is just a question mark. A picture of a child trying to figure out God, don't even go there........

 

[jkalyna]

This is true, I don't disagree with you, but look at the story of creation. When you look carefully, it really doesn't say exactly how and when God created our world, only that we are to use the week division of time to celebrate it. Yet, by insisting that we have to have everything fit our logical minds, we have to know every detail, many have said that God told it wrong and therefore we can't trust God.

The Hebrews didn't use our logic and sequence thinking so they said oh, God is our creator and here is how God wants us to know about that. He would think all our questions were dumb.

When our Greek thinking arrived in the world about 2,500 years ago, it really shook things up in the world who knew God.

this is deep knowledge
TY also Mark 8:12 Jesus said, an deeply sighed in his spirit I say unto you there shall no sign be given to the men of today. Either you belief it, reasoning is just doubt. Logic dosn't mix with faith, Jesus is our bread of life, OT and NT. Just as Eve was decieved so are many today of the realization of who God is and that he and him only is the Creator..

 

[kessy001]

I think we should read the bible simply..with expectation in our heart..with a yearning to hear from God...Trusting that by His spirit he would give us revelation. The letter kills but the spirit gives life..