Spirits In Prison

[RachelBibleStudent]

it may also be relevant to point out that this interpretation is almost entirely the work of one theologian...namely wayne grudem...and it is only about thirty years old...

this interpretation is a new innovation that is foreign to the historical christian church...if it was part of biblical christianity then God would have seen to it that someone thought of it earlier than just the 1980s...

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

noah preached righteousness to the people living before the flood...but nowhere does the bible say that christ spoke through noah...in fact nowhere does the bible ever describe the work of a prophet as the preincarnate christ preaching through them...

This is hardly worthy of being addressed... but I must since you mentioned it. Christ through his spirit is the only one who preached through Noah. Noah didn't speak of himself. I suppose you would also say that Christ didn't preach through Moses to the children of Israel.

For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them [the children of Israel in the wilderness]: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. Hebrews 4:2​

Even though Christ was definitely with them in spirit:

And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 1 Corinthians 10:2-4​

 

[WeStand]

What about in Job when satan replies to God that he is roaming around the earth, is that another time?


I think KAdamW will strongly disagree with you considering his OP has mentioned that interpretation is incorrect lol Personally I'm leaning more towards KAdamW's understanding of the scripture since the whole Jesus going down to hell and preaching to spirits idea never really settled with me (not that He can't do that, just never really believed that He did) so I just put it on the shelf with other things that I don't consider vital to my foundation.

Satan/Death still, and always has since the beginning of this flesh age; roamed up and down and to and fro in this earth spiritually, physically, that's another subject.

Get into and stay in The Word with prayer. Only a fool would lean towards any man's understanding, and that's anyone, male or female.

Personally, I put NO faith into what the English says, because the meanings and morals come across distorted.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

there are just so many glaring flaws in this interpretation that i can only conclude that people are supporting it for reasons other than its supposed 'sensibility'...as i mentioned before a lot of people are confused about the implications of christ's preaching in hell...and this interpretation just seems to be a misguided attempt at avoiding those issues entirely...

Then why don't you point them out... grammatically. I'm not interested in your interpretation because it makes about as much sense as the fairy tale of nephillim being fallen angels who impregnated women.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

This is hardly worthy of being addressed... but I must since you mentioned it. Christ through his spirit is the only one who preached through Noah. Noah didn't speak of himself. I suppose you would also say that Christ didn't preach through Moses to the children of Israel.

For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them [the children of Israel in the wilderness]: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. Hebrews 4:2​

Even though Christ was definitely with them in spirit:

And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 1 Corinthians 10:2-4​

2 peter 1:21 specifically addresses how prophecy works..."for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God."

the prophets spoke as they were moved by the holy spirit...nowhere does it say that christ was the one speaking through them...divine inspiration is solely the role of the spirit...

also see acts 28:25 which indicates again that the holy spirit speaks through prophets..."And when they did not agree with one another, they began leaving after Paul had spoken one parting word, “The Holy Spirit rightly spoke through Isaiah the prophet to your fathers,"

nowhere in scripture does it specify that christ spoke though any prophet...

and as i already said...hebrews 1:1-2 makes a distinction between the preaching of a prophet and the preaching of christ...and states that the speaking of the son was only in the last days...which rules out the days of noah...

regarding moses...the holy spirit spoke through moses...nowhere does it say christ spoke through moses...and in fact john 1:17 makes a distinction between what was given through moses and what was given through christ...if christ was speaking through moses all along then the distinction God makes would be invalid...

christ was with the people as the angel of the lord within the pillar of cloud and fire...anything beyond that is just your speculation...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Then why don't you point them out... grammatically. I'm not interested in your interpretation because it makes about as much sense as the fairy tale of nephillim being fallen angels who impregnated women.

i already did point out several flaws in this interpretation...both ways in which it contradicts scripture and ways in which it fails grammatically...

but since you asked...here is a closer grammatical analysis...

on the issue of the mode of the preaching...the greek word translated as 'went' is 'poreutheis'...that word means to traverse...travel...depart...make a journey...etc.

so when it says jesus -went- and preached to the spirits in prison...it means he actually traveled to where those spirits were located in person...he didn't just stay put and send his word through a prophet...

on the question of timing...the greek word translated as 'sometime' in the king james version is 'pote'...which means 'at some time'...and the greek phrase translated as 'when once' in the KJV is 'hote hapax'...which literally means 'at which one time'...

literally translating roughly the first half of verse twenty then produces something like this...'who disobeyed at some time, at which one time God waited patiently in the days of noah'...this correspondence between 'at some time' and 'at which one time' more clearly indicates that the 'when once' in the KJV is referring specifically to the time of the spirits' disobedience...and is not to be extended back to verse nineteen to provide the timing for when jesus preached to those spirits...

so the premise that christ had preached to them in the days of noah has no support from the passage...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

for reference here is my literal translation of 1 peter 3:18-20...i tried my best to preserve the original greek word order while still keeping it intelligible in english...

"Because also Christ at one time suffered for sins (the innocent for the sake of the unjust, in order that we might be brought near to God), killed in the flesh but made alive in the Spirit--in whom also he traveled and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed at some time, at which one time God waited patiently in the days of Noah till the completion of the ark in which a few (the which were eight) souls were saved through water."

 

[Josh321]

when jesus preached to the spirits in prison...it means he went to hell and preached to the spirits there...

people get confused because they ask 'how can jesus offer the gospel to people in hell?' and the theory presented in this thread is just a way of avoiding that issue...

but the thing to realize is that the gospel of salvation is not the only thing that can be preached...

jesus wasn't there to preach salvation...he was there to preach -judgment-

God's approach to justice is such that he never leaves the justness of his judgments in question...even those that are condemned have to accept that their condemnation is just...and what jesus was doing by preaching in hell was showing himself as the living proof that they were wrong to disbelieve and that their condemnation and punishment was just...

just as christ's resurrection is the main source of hope and assurance for the christian...it is also the ultimate source of reproach and condemnation for the unbeliever...

i agree with this but i'm not too sure what the gospel was that was preached unto them, speaking about this verse by the way [h=3]1 Peter 3:18-22[/h]King James Version (KJV)

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

 

[KAdamW]

it may also be relevant to point out that this interpretation is almost entirely the work of one theologian...namely wayne grudem...and it is only about thirty years old...

this interpretation is a new innovation that is foreign to the historical christian church...if it was part of biblical christianity then God would have seen to it that someone thought of it earlier than just the 1980s...

wow. that is incorrect.

i was an atheist until 1998. i had been in a church twice prior to that. once for a wedding in a church whose denomination i can't recall and once 26yrs ago in a evening catholic service with my girlfriend. i never read the Bible until my conversion in which i was alone. my knowledge of Christianity to that point was limited to stuff i saw in movies. and since most of that is catholic i really did not know there was a difference between them and protestants.

after becoming a believer i began to read, and ask questions to Christians i knew. everyone seemed to give me different answers to the same question. so i stopped asking and challenged myself to read and find my own answers from the Bible alone. after five years of intense daily study i began to fellowship with different denominations and test their teaching with what i found scripture to say. on many occasions i have walked out of church services when i heard the subject was to be something i had not studied or gained my own conviction on.

i have never heard of that guy, nor have i heard this subject preached, nor have i read anyone's literature. i was talking in a forum yrs ago and somebody used these areas of scripture it puzzled me. so i studied and eventually produced that OP.

out of curiosity i checked matthew henry's commentary. by the way he died 299 yrs ago. not this new 30yr old idea you claimed. and you know how popular his commentary is i am sure. so for at least 3 centuries these ideas have been widely published, studied, and used by all manner of Christians.

so your statement is horribly far from accurate.

 

[BananaPie]

...After... years of intense daily study, I began to fellowship with different denominations and test their teaching with what I found scripture to say. On many occasions, I have walked out of church services when i heard the subject was to be something i had not studied or gained my own conviction on.

"Lean not unto your own understanding," and "study to show thyself approved."

You're 100% accurate of where my shoes have been. Your living testimony is a blessing, and your Berean heart has found a great treasure in Christ. May the humility of Christ adorn you well into the favorable reign of our Lord Jesus Christ. The Lord is good.

 

[BananaPie]

so your statement is horribly far from accurate.

Can one in love with God find kinder thoughts for our dear sister Rachel?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

wow. that is incorrect....

i have never heard of that guy, nor have i heard this subject preached, nor have i read anyone's literature. i was talking in a forum yrs ago and somebody used these areas of scripture it puzzled me. so i studied and eventually produced that OP.

out of curiosity i checked matthew henry's commentary. by the way he died 299 yrs ago. not this new 30yr old idea you claimed. and you know how popular his commentary is i am sure. so for at least 3 centuries these ideas have been widely published, studied, and used by all manner of Christians.

so your statement is horribly far from accurate.

You're right. It goes back to at least Augustine. But I like you came to my conclusion by simply examining the Greek. I have learned that when I get that spidey sense about an interpretation that doesn't seem quite right, it's for a reason. The holy spirit is doing its work.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

2 peter 1:21 specifically addresses how prophecy works..."for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God."

the prophets spoke as they were moved by the holy spirit...nowhere does it say that christ was the one speaking through them...divine inspiration is solely the role of the spirit...

also see acts 28:25 which indicates again that the holy spirit speaks through prophets..."And when they did not agree with one another, they began leaving after Paul had spoken one parting word, “The Holy Spirit rightly spoke through Isaiah the prophet to your fathers,"

nowhere in scripture does it specify that christ spoke though any prophet...

and as i already said...hebrews 1:1-2 makes a distinction between the preaching of a prophet and the preaching of christ...and states that the speaking of the son was only in the last days...which rules out the days of noah...

regarding moses...the holy spirit spoke through moses...nowhere does it say christ spoke through moses...and in fact john 1:17 makes a distinction between what was given through moses and what was given through christ...if christ was speaking through moses all along then the distinction God makes would be invalid...

christ was with the people as the angel of the lord within the pillar of cloud and fire...anything beyond that is just your speculation...

This is madness. I really have a hard time with people who make such ridiculous statements as if they were truth.

Christ spoke through every prophet. When he came in person, he spoke in person. That is all those verses in Hebrews mean. To try to separate what Christ says from the what holy spirit says is IMO the work of a wicked spirit.

 

[KAdamW]

Can one in love with God find kinder thoughts for our dear sister Rachel?

one could i presume.

Rachel i wish upon you butterflies and roses and please search the best known commentary in the world by Matthew Henry from 3 centuries age and perchance take note that this has been taught for a very long time.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

i already did point out several flaws in this interpretation...both ways in which it contradicts scripture and ways in which it fails grammatically...

The problems with your interpretation that Christ went and preached to the dead are 1) it finds no support in scripture, and 2) it makes no sense.

On the other hand, the idea that Christ proclaimed his message of salvation through Noah is supported by scripture.

And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 2 Peter 2:5​

You mentioned in another place that Christ didn't preach salvation in prison, but judgment. Wow. Talk about something that makes no sense and finds no support in scripture. That is something completely made up on your part, or something someone else made up and you're just repeating. There is absolutely no support for that idea in scripture.

 

[Laodicea]

1 Peter 3:18-19 KJV
(18) For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
(19) By which(the Spirit) also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Genesis 6:3 KJV
(3) And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Who are the spirits in prison?
John 8:33-36 KJV(33) They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
(34) Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
(35) And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
(36) If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Spirits in prison are people under the bondage of sin.

 

[danschance]

The problems with your interpretation that Christ went and preached to the dead are 1) it finds no support in scripture, and 2) it makes no sense.

On the other hand, the idea that Christ proclaimed his message of salvation through Noah is supported by scripture.

And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 2 Peter 2:5​

You mentioned in another place that Christ didn't preach salvation in prison, but judgment. Wow. Talk about something that makes no sense and finds no support in scripture. That is something completely made up on your part, or something someone else made up and you're just repeating. There is absolutely no support for that idea in scripture.

I agree with rachelbiblestudent. The bible says Jesus did go to hades, the place of the dead.

8This is why it[SUP]a[/SUP] says:“When he ascended on high,
he took many captives
and gave gifts to his people.”[SUP]b[/SUP]

9(What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions[SUP]c[/SUP]? 10He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.) Eph. 4:8-10

18For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.19After being made alive,[SUP]d[/SUP] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 1Peter 3:18-19

The two verses above state Jesus did to the imprisoned spirits. The story of Lazarus the beggar and the rich man clearly describe going this region. It seems simple enough to me.

 

[danschance]

1 Peter 3:18-19 KJV
(18) For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
(19) By which(the Spirit) also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Genesis 6:3 KJV
(3) And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Who are the spirits in prison?
John 8:33-36 KJV(33) They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
(34) Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
(35) And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
(36) If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Spirits in prison are people under the bondage of sin.

So you claim there are people in the earth who are in bondage? Really? You are really going to twist this into humans imprisoned in the earth? I am shocked...

Why can't you simply read a passage and accept what it says?

How are the three scriptures you posted related to each other besides you simply posted them together?