-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
catholic (adj.)
mid-14c., "of the doctrines of the ancient Church," literally "universally accepted," from French catholique, from Church Latin catholicus "universal, general," from Greek katholikos, from phrase kath' holou "on the whole, in general," from kata "about" + genitive of holos "whole"
I believe the 'body of Christ' not to be all redeemed.. but is representative of one of God's churches or figurative for all of God's churches. Eg. .. body at Ephesus.. body at Philllipi.. body at Corinth.. body at Thesselonica.. etc.. being representative of one church in particular..
Or 'the body of Christ is the source of all teaching and truth' being representative of all of God's churches.. 'the unit' It's still of a local New Testament christian assembly, but is generic for all. It applies to all of them.
Now.... I'm not talking about brick and mortar.. buildings.. I'm talking about an organism with real parts. The group of baptised christian members of a body of Christ.
I could call it a 'local' body.. but that makes no sense
A body is local without needing to be designated that way.Eg.. 'here is my local wife'.... no one would say that!
So I will not recite the line in the apostles creed that has a belief in a universal, all redeemed church.
I do believe every believer is an entity-- part of the Family and Kingdom of God. But I don't believe they are 'the church'..
The church is either of one New Testament christian assembly of baptised believers, or is a generic references to not one in particular but represents all of them.. for eg.. 'the church is the pillar and ground of the truth'
Scripture proof-- references to assemblies in Revelation.. Corinthians.. numerous references to particular churches such as at Phillipi.. at Colosse.. Jesus talking of 'building His church' 'on this rock I will build my church'
Pretty much every single reference to church is of a NT christian assembly at a place. Some of these assemblies did move.. like the disciples.. but they remained visible.. localised entities. And the few scriptures where it is not as clear.. it is in the generic sense where it is talking about all churches.
This teaching is very rare, I know. 98 percent or more of believers accept a generalised, universal entity of the church of all redeemed.
I believe though this doesn't fit with scripture.
The hard part about this discussion is that wherever the Lord Jesus Christ is, there is the Kingdom of God.
The Lord descended into what would have been hell, had He not gone there...
So I suppose you can build a 'theology' on believing He went or didn't go. I would say technically both are true anyway.
The Lord descended into what would have been hell, had He not gone there...
So I suppose you can build a 'theology' on believing He went or didn't go. I would say technically both are true anyway.
Yes, He was not yet raised to God in His body. In His soul and spirit He had gone to be with God when He died.
Show me that in Scripture. You can't, its a myth, WE are in heavenly Places NOW.
But only one being. They are part of the whole, but intermingled. You cannot separate them. Man is also body, soul, mind and strength.
Show me that in Scripture. You can't, its a myth, WE are in heavenly Places NOW.
But only one being. They are part of the whole, but intermingled. You cannot separate them. Man is also body, soul, mind and strength.
F
I'm confused about what you're preaching. Are you saying on being can't be in multiple places? What do you think of the Trinity? They are one being, God, yet the Father remained in Heaven, the Son came to earth, and the Spirit came to us.
Knowing that we can never understand all of God's ways, how can you say it's impossible for Jesus to be able to separate himself in such a fashion as the one John146 describes?
I claim no insight on such matters, I just would like clarity.
Knowing that we can never understand all of God's ways, how can you say it's impossible for Jesus to be able to separate himself in such a fashion as the one John146 describes?
I claim no insight on such matters, I just would like clarity.
C
In Him the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily.
Jesus was called Eternal Father in Isaiah 9:6
John 14
Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”
9*Jesus said to him,*“Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?*10*Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own*authority;*but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.*
And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever—*17*the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.*18*I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
Indwelling of the Father and the Son
19*“A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also.*20*At that day you will know that I*am*in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.*21*He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”
22*Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?”
23*Jesus answered and said to him,*“If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.*
Jesus was called Eternal Father in Isaiah 9:6
John 14
Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”
9*Jesus said to him,*“Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?*10*Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own*authority;*but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.*
And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever—*17*the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.*18*I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
Indwelling of the Father and the Son
19*“A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also.*20*At that day you will know that I*am*in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.*21*He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”
22*Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?”
23*Jesus answered and said to him,*“If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.*
D
Actually, I generally disagree with both of you, and haven't taken the time to read what either said, except this flashed by.
Really? You think Jesus was still bound by time and space after death? Are you picturing him completely, utterly -- body and spirit -- dead lying in that grave for three days?
If not, viola!
God made time and space, thus apparently he lives apart from it. Stop trying to shove the infinite into finite terms. God is in all places and all time all the time... errrr, apart from time.
Really? You think Jesus was still bound by time and space after death? Are you picturing him completely, utterly -- body and spirit -- dead lying in that grave for three days?
If not, viola!
God made time and space, thus apparently he lives apart from it. Stop trying to shove the infinite into finite terms. God is in all places and all time all the time... errrr, apart from time.
D
Funny story. (And sad at the same time.) In my denomination, (Presbyterian), there was a divide over whether God decided Jesus would come to earth to die on that cross before or after he created the universe. (Supralapsarianism vs. infralapsarianism. They even have words for this.) Honest! Two separate denominations now simply over that one really silly argument!
The stuff we argue over.
The stuff we argue over.