-The Bride-

[Bookreader]

The Bride is to be without spot or wrinkle. Jesus wishes it would be the whole church. Eph. 5:27. It is clear from Rev. 21:9 followed by 21:24, and Zech 14:16 that some people will not live there but will walk in and out (thus they are guests). From 21:27, some people will not be allowed in. We have thus established at least 3 groups. Those who live there (actually are) the city, another group that goes in and out, and a third not allowed to attend. The issue is, who is who?

We have a couple of options. Option 1. Jesus is eventually successful in his desires from Eph 5:27, and all the church is the bride. That's what I would like to see, too. Then, the other two groups would be the people with good hearts, who are unsaved, and then the evil people. OR Option 2. The Bride is some small subgroup of the Church, perhaps the remnant. Then the other groups are the remainder of the church and the unsaved.

Revelation gives us a delineation of 4 groups who respond to the New Song of ch. 5. The elders and living creatures of ch. 5, The sealed of ch. 14, the victorious of ch. 15, and the rest of ch. 19. Each group is farther away from the throne, and has a less complete response to the song. It's a matter of opinion from this point on. A person can believe the bride is groups 1&2 only, 1&2&3 or all four groups. Scripture does not tell us.

My estimates are based on experience. I certainly do not act like Jesus 100%. I know Christians who act like Jesus 99% and 10%, and pretty much anywhere in-between. I think "spot" and "wrinkles" refers to the missing 1% to 90%. I have studied a lot of Christian history, and served in a lot of churches in a lot of denominations. If you set the bar at acting like Jesus 95% and trying, the number is around 2% in my experience. If you have different experience, please share. Part of my experience is that the other 98% simply are not trying, and if confronted, will make every excuse possible, and misquote Scripture (or more likely church tradition) to prove they don't have to. That's why I set the bar there. When a person refuses to change, then the spot and wrinkle problem is way greater. Bleach and irons only work on cooperative clothing.

Case 1. All the church is the Bride. I conclude it will take a long time, given the state of affairs I see. This is not to say that God can't change it in a day. I imagine that's part of what the tribulation is for (if you're mid- or post- trib). Case 2. Only a small percent, maybe the same 2% I see, or whatever number is really correct that I don't see, is the bride, and everyone else is in groups 3 or 4 or the 4 groups in Revelation.

I was going to go through all the posts before I commented but had to comment upon this comment.
I don't know what new-age ecumenical Christianity has your mind but I think you're either WAY off, or not as correct as you think.

The Bible lays down rules and, depending upon them, most of not all modern churches fail to do what the Bible says. How many insist women where head coverings? The Bible says they should but 90% of the 'church' do not say this is important - though Paul states it is.
So we are to take some Biblical statements in light of attitudes of the time - that is the usual response.
I personally agree - though it puts me at odds with the 'church' I fellowship with.

It does illustrate though how much the modern church is NOT the Bride unless the Bride is allowed to ignore all the 'rules' stated in the NT.

Does the bride allow worship and prayers to those that are not God? I would say no - but prayers to those dead are the basis of the Catholic saint system.


Far from being 'all inclusive' the definition of the bride suggests that the church/bride includes those that are in it, at those that are not are, by the judgement of Christ, not.

This might be individuals but could just as easily be whole sects (sections) of those that call themselves Christian.
Most of Christendom is fast to condemn, for example JW, as non-Christian. But they accept those that speak-in-tongues. They deny Mormons but accept the more modern belief of the rapture (invented by a Scottish girl in the 18th or 19th century).
The NARROW gate is not necessarily ALL those who say they believe in Christ - perhaps it is those whole believe in what Christ truly is?
That could be a very few compared to the size of modern Christianity.

I put forward another thought based upon scripture where Christ says "unless you have done these things I will say I don't know you" (I paraphrase).
If a Christian does all the church stuff and such and is a bit of a nasty person most of the time (I've met them and might be considered one perhaps) then Christ will turn his back.
This is related to the fact we are told - judgement will be when Christ returns. Christ has been given the job (by God) to judge mankind.
So all who are judged will be judged through (dia is the greek) Christ.

The bible says none shall get to the kingdom of God, except through Christ (dia).
This means that any who Christ says YES to - will get their through Him.

 

[Shilo]

The Lord has said it is a remnant that will be saved and that the ones who love him do what he was said. Let us have a discussion in love and mutual respect.

 

[Elin]

Hi everyone!

Me and my husband we know of a Messianic Jew that whenever we meet with him we always have a lot of interesting talks, especially about the bible. And he told us something I find as interesting to thinking about it. As he meant that "the bride" is meant being Israel, basically this means "the jews" who beleive in Christ Jesus.

And he also mentioned that Jesus also talked about that during the Lord's wedding, a lot of His guests didn't come, and then He chose to go and look for other guests that wanted to join in His wedding.

Our friend said that the other guests are everyone else that chose for Christ's salvation later. Not the jews, but all others that came to faith in Christ Jesus as well.


What do you think?

Jesus revelation (Heb 1:2) given by the apostles in the NT is that the Bride is the Church, the body of Christ, that the two are one flesh.
And the Church and body of Christ are all those, Gentile and Jew, who savingly believe in Jesus Christ.

Eph 5:29-32-: "No one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it just as Christ does the church--for we are members of his body.
'For this reason, a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.' (Ge 2:24)
This is a profound mystery (mystery= never before revealed)--but I am talking about Christ and the church."

Jesus has revealed (Heb 1:2) that the Bride is the Church, it is not Israel.

 

[Elin]

Hi everyone!

Me and my husband we know of a Messianic Jew that whenever we meet with him we always have a lot of interesting talks, especially about the bible. And he told us something I find as interesting to thinking about it. As he meant that "the bride" is meant being Israel, basically this means "the jews" who beleive in Christ Jesus.

And he also mentioned that Jesus also talked about that during the Lord's wedding, a lot of His guests didn't come, and then He chose to go and look for other guests that wanted to join in His wedding.

Our friend said that the other guests are everyone else that chose for Christ's salvation later. Not the jews, but all others that came to faith in Christ Jesus as well.


What do you think?

Jesus came to the house of Israel first.
Those are the ones invited to the wedding.

Some refused their Messiah.
Therefore, the gospel was takn to the Gentiles.
The Gentiles are the one who were not invited at first.

 

[Precious_Sunflower]

Jesus came to the house of Israel first.
Those are the ones invited to the wedding.

Some refused their Messiah.
Therefore, the gospel was takn to the Gentiles.
The Gentiles are the one who were not invited at first.

Then you are indicating that the Gentiles who later became saved are the guests and not the bride?

 

[Elin]

Then you are indicating that the Gentiles who later became saved are the guests and not the bride?

Mt 22:2-14 is the third of three parables on the rejection/judgment of Israel because of unbelief.

The first parable (Mt 21:28-32) is about the son who is a rebel and repents (Gentile), and the other son who pretends obedience, but is really a rebel (Jew).

The second parable (Mt 21:33-44) is about the tenants of the vineyard who on two separate occasions killed the servants (prophets) sent by the vineyard's owner (God)
to collect his fruit, and on a third occasion then killed the Owner's Son.

Jesus concluded the second parable with the two declarations:
1) that the kingdom of God would be taken from the Jews and given to a people who will prdouce its fruit (Mt 21:43, and
2) that those who fall (stumble) on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls (judgment) will be crushed.

The chief priests and Pharisees knew that Jesus was talking about them in the parable of the tenants (Mt 21:45).

Which brings us to the third parable, the wedding banquet where the King prepared a wedding banquet for his Son.

The parable is not about a bride.
The parable is about those invitated to a banquet, and their responses to the invitation.
In the parable, the unmentioned bride would be an individual, not a group.

Those invited to the banquet fall into three groups:
1) those who received invitations, refused to come (Jews), killed the kings' servants (prophets), therefore, did not deserve to come, and
whom the king destroyed and whose city he burned (Jerusalem, 70 A.D.);
2) those who were publicly invited (Gentiles), came and accepted/received the wedding garment (righteousness of saving faith) provided by the king;
3) those who were publicly invited, came and did not accept/receive the wedding garment provided by the king (being of counterfeit faith, as in Mt 7:21-23).

All three parables are about rejection of Israel because of unbelief.
The third parable of the wedding banquet is not about a bride.

 

[popeye]

Rachel ( Jews) and Leah ( gentile church )
Rachel the promised wife of Jacob ( the people of natural Israel ) She was the first promised but the last to be given.
Leah ( Gentile church ) a hidden mystery because Jacob got her under the cover of darkness.
Rachel first promised last to marry Yeshua / Jesus. This is one of the picture of the first shell be last and the last first.

Rachel (the people of natural of Israel ) were the first called to be the bride but Leah came first.
So natural Israel is the first and the last called but we all are part of Spirit Israel.

hmmm......interesting concept. I will look at this dimension. Thanks
(i realize this thread is old,but the bride/groom thing is fascinating)

 

[popeye]

Mt 22:2-14 is the third of three parables on the rejection/judgment of Israel because of unbelief.

The first parable (Mt 21:28-32) is about the son who is a rebel and repents (Gentile), and the other son who pretends obedience, but is really a rebel (Jew).

The second parable (Mt 21:33-44) is about the tenants of the vineyard who on two separate occasions killed the servants (prophets) sent by the vineyard's owner (God)
to collect his fruit, and on a third occasion then killed the Owner's Son.

Jesus concluded the second parable with the two declarations:
1) that the kingdom of God would be taken from the Jews and given to a people who will prdouce its fruit (Mt 21:43, and
2) that those who fall (stumble) on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls (judgment) will be crushed.

The chief priests and Pharisees knew that Jesus was talking about them in the parable of the tenants (Mt 21:45).

Which brings us to the third parable, the wedding banquet where the King prepared a wedding banquet for his Son.

The parable is not about a bride.
The parable is about those invitated to a banquet, and their responses to the invitation.
In the parable, the unmentioned bride would be an individual, not a group.

Those invited to the banquet fall into three groups:
1) those who received invitations, refused to come (Jews), killed the kings' servants (prophets), therefore, did not deserve to come, and
whom the king destroyed and whose city he burned (Jerusalem, 70 A.D.);
2) those who were publicly invited (Gentiles), came and accepted/received the wedding garment (righteousness of saving faith) provided by the king;
3) those who were publicly invited, came and did not accept/receive the wedding garment provided by the king (being of counterfeit faith, as in Mt 7:21-23).

All three parables are about rejection of Israel because of unbelief.
The third parable of the wedding banquet is not about a bride.

All three parables are about rejection of Israel because of unbelief.
The third parable of the wedding banquet is not about a bride.

Yes and no.
"it" is about several things.

Those bidden rejected the MARRIAGE 1st. Vs 1&2
THEN he sent forth AGAIN and requested they attend the SUPPER

NOTE WE ALREADY HAVE SEVERAL DIMENSIONS.


Consider these verses;
9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

Near the end of the GT we see jesus with a "ripe fruit" harvest,and angel/s with a "over ripe" fruit harvest,coincidentally the marriage supper is happening in heaven.

Food for thought
(no pun intended)