The Great Rift

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resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#1
Dec 19, 2009
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#1
It would seem to me that there is a great rift among those who call themselves Christians. First, there is the group that is trying to do the Lord’s will by obeying his commandments. Then there is the group who are trying to please each other. The second group doesn’t give a lot of thought to the Lord’s commandments. Jesus talks about it here:

[39] You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me;
[40] yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.
[41] I do not receive glory from men.
[42] But I know that you have not the love of God within you.
[43] I have come in my Father's name, and you do not receive me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive.
[44] How can you believe, who receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God? John 5:39-44 RSV


Another way I would put it is this: One group wants to do the Lord’s will. The other group wants to climb the social ladder.

So which group will discover heaven? Or don’t you believe heaven can be discovered? Well, what was Jesus saying when he said this:

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

I’m sure people have a lot of different interpretations about what this means. I believe that heaven is what our lives change into when we repent of our sin. The only way to prove me wrong is to repent of one’s sin, right?
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#2
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
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#2
Then there's the group that sets up strawmen arguments and by that think they've proven their case.
 
breno785au

breno785au

Senior Member
#3
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
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Australia
#3
You know, those scriptures, you know who Jesus was talking to right?
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#4
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#4
resurrection33 said:
It would seem to me that there is a great rift among those who call themselves Christians. First, there is the group that is trying to do the Lord’s will by obeying his commandments. Then there is the group who are trying to please each other. The second group doesn’t give a lot of thought to the Lord’s commandments. Jesus talks about it here:

[39] You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me;
[40] yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.
[41] I do not receive glory from men.
[42] But I know that you have not the love of God within you.
[43] I have come in my Father's name, and you do not receive me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive.
[44] How can you believe, who receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God? John 5:39-44 RSV


Another way I would put it is this: One group wants to do the Lord’s will. The other group wants to climb the social ladder.

So which group will discover heaven? Or don’t you believe heaven can be discovered? Well, what was Jesus saying when he said this:

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

I’m sure people have a lot of different interpretations about what this means. I believe that heaven is what our lives change into when we repent of our sin. The only way to prove me wrong is to repent of one’s sin, right?
Click to expand...
It means repent.... then get born again. Then and only then can you enter the Kingdom of heaven while still on earth.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#6
Dec 19, 2009
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71
#6
breno785au said:
You know, those scriptures, you know who Jesus was talking to right?
Click to expand...
Yes. Read the Scripture:

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

He was talking to everyone.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#7
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
128
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71
#7
KJV1611 said:
It means repent.... then get born again. Then and only then can you enter the Kingdom of heaven while still on earth.
Click to expand...
Yes, you seem to have hit the nail on the head. When you repent, you will be born again, and you will enter the Kingdom of heaven while still on earth.
 
breno785au

breno785au

Senior Member
#8
Jul 23, 2013
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#8
resurrection33 said:
Yes. Read the Scripture:

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

He was talking to everyone.
Click to expand...
No, I'm talking about John 5 scriptures you posted. Your first comments, somehow, for some reason made it about Christians but Jesus was addressing Jewish leaders in those scriptures, those who thought eternal life was searching the scriptures, where in fact it is in Him..
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#9
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
128
0
71
#9
breno785au said:
No, I'm talking about John 5 scriptures you posted. Your first comments, somehow, for some reason made it about Christians but Jesus was addressing Jewish leaders in those scriptures, those who thought eternal life was searching the scriptures, where in fact it is in Him..
Click to expand...
Jesus is complaining about all people who ignore God and just try to please each other.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#10
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
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#10
It's probably too late now, but I did re-read my original post, and I should have inserted the word "just," so that the statement would have read: "Then there is the group who are just trying to please each other."
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#11
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
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#11
resurrection33 said:
What's a strawmen argument?
Click to expand...
[h=4]Description of Straw Man[/h]The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:

  1. Person A has position X.
  2. Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
  3. Person B attacks position Y.
  4. Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself. One might as well expect an attack on a poor drawing of a person to hurt the person.

Fallacy: Straw Man

 
S

Siberian_Khatru

Guest
#12
#12
resurrection33 said:
It would seem to me that there is a great rift among those who call themselves Christians.
Click to expand...
I see it more like a grassy plain, met by morning dew and all foggy, while the doctrine everyone beats everyone else with are like pool noodles. Because of the dew and the fog, people are slipping, sliding, and their vision is limited by the low set fog, and they're just thwomping away - except pool noodles are harmless, so maybe they're swinging something else, like skillets or wooden back scratchers, or something.
 
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