The problem with the Electoral College system (explained)

[zeroturbulence]

The problem with the Electoral College system explained very simply...

This is in case some of us are a little foggy on why this system is often criticized.
I'd like to illustrate its flaws with a simple little example I came up with...


Voting for SCHOOL President

Lets forget about politics for awhile and pretend there is a small school with only 4 classrooms and they want to elect a School President.

There are two candidates running, both are excellent students.
One is a boy named Bob and the other one a girl named Sally.

One classroom has 15 students, the other three have 10 students each.
An electoral vote is given for every 5 students in a class, so the one with 15 students gets 3 electoral votes, and the ones with only 10 students get 2 electoral votes each.
Sounds perfectly fair right?? Read on..



After the voting is finished, the votes are counted and here are the results:

Classroom One (15 voted total, 3 "electoral votes"): 7 - Bob, 8 - Sally

Classroom Two (10 votes total, 2 "electoral votes"): 6 - Bob, 4 - Sally

Classroom Three (10 votes total, 2 "electoral votes"): 6 - Bob, 4 - Sally

Classroom Four (10 votes total, 2 "electoral votes"): 4 - Bob, 6 - Sally



Total votes for Bob: 23
Total votes for Sally: 22

Total electoral votes for Bob: (classrooms Two and Three combined): 4
Total electoral votes for Sally: ( classrooms One and Four combined): 5

SALLY WINS, even though Bob got MORE votes!!

 

[jimmydiggs]

A very serious problem with this criticism is assuming that the United States is a Democracy. In reality the United States is supposed to be a Republic.

A Mrs. Powel of Philadelphia asked Benjamin Franklin, “Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?” With no hesitation whatsoever, Franklin responded, “A republic, if you can keep it.”

We certainly haven't kept it.

 

[Nautilus]

as jimmy said weve never been a pure democracy, so i dont view this as an issue. Pure deomcracies rarely work and quickly tend to devolve into aristocracies or worse.

 

[Chrissy77]

It is funny you should post this because I came online to learn more about that exact thing. I at first was going to say I agreed up until I read your post and thought about just that. Living in NY we get 29 electoral votes. The reason I believe this is a system that can work negative either way is for the fact that we had over 19,000,000 people living in NY as of 2011. People in an area tend to have different needs, desires, wants, and viewpoints based upon where they live so obviously we would for the most part vote for the candidate who met our states needs. Compare that to Colorado who only has 5,000,000 people and different viewpoints based upon their own lifestyle of living and we would basically take the vote. I can't say it is really the correct way either way because why wouldn't we want someone elected who was voted by the popular vote and what the majority wants. I just fear that the majority may be in states that cancel out the minority and they in turn would lose out.

 

[zeroturbulence]

Whoa! Wait a minute! Being a republic has absolutely nothing to do with the electoral college system.

Being a republic simply means that the people freely elect a government which has power to make decisions for them.
A true democracy is where the government has no decision-making power, everything must be decided by a vote.

None of that has anything to do with the electoral college system.

 

[zeroturbulence]

Oh and by the way, Obama won. -_-

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Iran will go nuclear, even more of the 67% of all new job growth in the U.S. currently going to immigrants (instead of U.S. citizens) will increase to over 70% of all new jobs going to immigrants instead of citizens, the sprawling welfare state will increase further, the deficit will increase another $4-$6 trillion over the next four years, trade will stay broken, morality will break down further, secret treaties under negotiation will be passed dramatically curbing your liberty, etc...

Good job Obama voters. All of this is your fault.

 

[RickyZ]

As opposed to electing a man who believes all workers should be slaves and only CEO's should be paid, have healthcare, retirements, etc.

Personally I voted for Roseanne Barr. Can't stand the woman but at least she won't lie to you.

 

[Pen014]

noticed the map on wikipedia and the territories in this election looked very much like the obama/mccain example.

maybe republicans and democrats are that predictable!

now that you explained the electoral college system yeah that is weird.

looking at a census texas which romney took is actually considered to be
on the lower end of the voter spectrum taken from an article written in june of this year


Census Data Finds Who Votes, and Who Doesn't - NYTimes.com

the rest is rasberries.

 

[Nautilus]

Whoa! Wait a minute! Being a republic has absolutely nothing to do with the electoral college system.

Being a republic simply means that the people freely elect a government which has power to make decisions for them.
A true democracy is where the government has no decision-making power, everything must be decided by a vote.

None of that has anything to do with the electoral college system.

actually it does in a true democracy everyones vote counts. so there would not be a need for the electoral college

 

[Stuey]

Hmmmm, yeah your system is a bit weird.

One thing about Obama is that he will keep military spending level or decrease it rather than increasing it... 4% of gdp is way above what most western countries (Israel excepted) spend.

 

[GRA]

The problem with the Electoral College system explained very simply...

This is in case some of us are a little foggy on why this system is often criticized.
I'd like to illustrate its flaws with a simple little example I came up with...


Voting for SCHOOL President

Lets forget about politics for awhile and pretend there is a small school with only 4 classrooms and they want to elect a School President.

There are two candidates running, both are excellent students.
One is a boy named Bob and the other one a girl named Sally.

One classroom has 15 students, the other three have 10 students each.
An electoral vote is given for every 5 students in a class, so the one with 15 students gets 3 electoral votes, and the ones with only 10 students get 2 electoral votes each.
Sounds perfectly fair right?? Read on..



After the voting is finished, the votes are counted and here are the results:

Classroom One (15 voted total, 3 "electoral votes"): 7 - Bob, 8 - Sally

Classroom Two (10 votes total, 2 "electoral votes"): 6 - Bob, 4 - Sally

Classroom Three (10 votes total, 2 "electoral votes"): 6 - Bob, 4 - Sally

Classroom Four (10 votes total, 2 "electoral votes"): 4 - Bob, 6 - Sally



Total votes for Bob: 23
Total votes for Sally: 22

Total electoral votes for Bob: (classrooms Two and Three combined): 4
Total electoral votes for Sally: ( classrooms One and Four combined): 5

SALLY WINS, even though Bob got MORE votes!!

"Oh, but did you forget the part about the fact that the Electoral Voter does not have to cast a vote that "follows" the vote of the people in his/her district?"

Let's re-visit...

After the voting is finished, the votes are counted and here are the results:

Classroom One (15 voted total, 3 "electoral votes"): 12 - Bob, 3 - Sally

Classroom Two (10 votes total, 2 "electoral votes"): 8 - Bob, 2 - Sally

Classroom Three (10 votes total, 2 "electoral votes"): 9 - Bob, 1 - Sally

Classroom Four (10 votes total, 2 "electoral votes"): 7 - Bob, 3 - Sally

Total votes for Bob: 36
Total votes for Sally: 9

Total electoral votes for Bob: 0
Total electoral votes for Sally: 9

Why?

Because:

~ Bob is a poor conservative.
~ Sally is a very rich liberal.
~ All 9 of the Electoral Voters "just happen to be" liberal, and believe - despite popular opinion/vote - that "Sally would really be a better school president than Bob" --- so, they all "vote their conscience" and...

While this example may [or may not] be a bit "extreme" or "absurd" -- it is, nonetheless, technically possible under the Electoral College system...



.

 

[eugenius]

Yea I kinda saw what you mean last night. The final election map was funny. The country was mostly red but blue won. And California especially. Whoever gets California is already way ahead of the other guy. The other guy has to catch up like crazy to make up for the fact that he got California. 55/270 = 20% ahead.

The only real way for conservatives to win is for most of them to either move to California or the northeast. Florida doesn't seem to help much either.

 

[eugenius]

Eh Correction, Florida does help. And its on the borderline between right and left so not that many more conservatives simply need to retire there. Anyone have a problem with that?

In fact if conservatives move to California, New York, Florida, Texas (already conservative), and Pennsylvania, the right would be 63% ahead.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Oh and much higher taxes too. Where I live they just passed a $6 billion dollar tax increase... that would be illegalafornia.

 

[RickyZ]

Yea I kinda saw what you mean last night. The final election map was funny. The country was mostly red but blue won. And California especially. Whoever gets California is already way ahead of the other guy. The other guy has to catch up like crazy to make up for the fact that he got California. 55/270 = 20% ahead.

The only real way for conservatives to win is for most of them to either move to California or the northeast. Florida doesn't seem to help much either.

It's based on population. California has more electors than, say, Montana, because we have a much larger population.

What I hate is the 'winner takes all' part. If California votes 49% conservative and 51% liberal, the liberal gets 100% of the electors.

 

[godsgrl6]

I agree. I researched this after it appeared that Obama won with electoral votes this past election. I am going to ask my WV Congressman to amend the Constitution by repealing the electoral college. Go people of God!

 

[Nautilus]

you realize that in both elections by the time the final ballots were counted obama won in both popular vote and electoral college vote right? or do you just try to be uninformed? because you clearly didn't do research like you claim to have.