The Triune of Bafflement

[Rhizka]

Of all the topics of Christianity I would say the most confusing is the idea of the triune God. Which of course is that God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. But also, each one of those is God completely, but each piece is not the other?

I've seen diagrams such as this:

but I just don't understand how it is. Is this to be taken more metaphorically than literally? If God is those three things than how can each piece be God completely?

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

It's not confusing at all to me. Some people become confused; however, and fall into heresy regarding the doctrine of the Trinity like oneness pentecostals.

 

[Rhizka]

If it's not confusing to you could you try explaining to me how God can be three separate things which are each completely God and are not each other? Is that understanding of it incorrect? Are they each other? Is each piece not God complete? Is the premise of my understanding false? Can you direct me to some source that gives a clear understanding of it? It seems intrinsically paradoxical.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

We worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the Persons nor dividing the Substance. God's substance, as eternal Spirit, cannot be divided, and His Persons cannot be confused or confounded.

For further information: The Athanasian Creed - Quicumque

Note that the usage of the word "Catholic" in early Christianity meant "universal", as in the universal body of worldwide believers, and not specifically the Roman Catholic Church that it is so often used in conjunction with today.

 

[loveme1]

I believe we do not fully understand the Spirit.

We know Yahvah God is a spirit:

Exodus 34

1And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest. 2And be ready in the morning, and come up in the morning unto mount Sinai, and present thyself there to me in the top of the mount. 3And no man shall come up with thee, neither let any man be seen throughout all the mount; neither let the flocks nor herds feed before that mount. 4And he hewed two tables of stone like unto the first; and Moses rose up early in the morning, and went up unto mount Sinai, as the LORD had commanded him, and took in his hand the two tables of stone. 5And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD. 6And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, 7Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation. 8And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped. 9And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O Lord, let my Lord, I pray thee, go among us; for it is a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance.

John 4

22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. 25The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. 26Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

Isaiah 11

And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;

3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:

4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

13 The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.

14 But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines toward the west; they shall spoil them of the east together: they shall lay their hand upon Edom and Moab; and the children of Ammon shall obey them.

15 And the Lord shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod.

16 And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.

1 Timothy 2

1This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) 6Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; 9Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. 10And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. 11Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. 12Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. 13For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

14These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly: 15But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

16And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

 

[Cobus]

Rhizka, trinity is not even mentioned in the Bible, I understand it like this. God is the Holy Spirit. That is ALL! God is Spirit and it is the ONLY Holy Spirit. But that Spirit can be holy in Himself, also can He be holy in flesh (Jesus) and because He is in the flesh here on earth (in Jesus), and He can be in Spirit in heaven (Father) at the same time, HE IS STILL ONE HOLY SPIRIT!

Now here is a bigger concept for you.... Jesus asks the Father to make ALL the people that Father gave to Jesus ALSO ONE WITH THEM AS HE IS ONE WITH FATHER.... And Father does it how? TO PLACE THAT HOLY SPIRIT IN ME (my spirit becomes also Holy Spirit), AND ME (my cleansed spirit) IN THE HOLY SPIRIT! ALSO ONE WITH GOD like JESUS and the Father are ONE... John10:30 ..I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE!

I hope this helps, it made me sure how it works! And I have no doubt, all HOLY PEOPLE ARE ONE WITH GOD! John 17. 2 Peter 1:21.

 

[pitts288]

If you don't mind reading my page...go to my thread called I AM THAT I AM, and I explain it very simpley.

PEACE.

 

[1still_waters]

John 16 gives a great display of this all in work. It shows the distinctness yet oneness of it.

John 16
12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”

Notice how the Spirit only speaks what He hears.
There is oneness in speaking and in purpose.

Notice how the Holy Spirit glorifies Jesus.
This shows mutual purpose and oneness again.

Notice the Spirit receives from Jesus what is made known.
Again unity in purpose.

Notice Jesus says ALL that belongs to the Father is mine.
Again unity in thoughts, knowledge, purpose and such.

All working together in thought, purpose, will and unity.
One God.

 

[RickShafer]

Also, The Father said Jesus "always does My will."
See how Jesus testified of the Father.
And the Father testified of the Son,(Jesus).
And the Holy Spirit testifies of Jesus.
See how none of them testify of themselves?
Three in one is the correct answer.
And God shows His completely unselfish nature through these three.

 

[nc19dude]

Hi, this a somewhat in depth explanation by James White if you have the time.

The Forgotten Trinity (Dr. James White) - YouTube

 

[Ugly]

Best way i heard it explained was imagine you have a pie cut into three pieces. But the inside is this big gooey mess inside. On the outside you see three pieces, but on the inside its just one big filling. I've always found that concept helpful.

 

[willfollowsGod]

Ugly, that concept about the pie, makes me want to have some piece that I do not have at home. The way that helps me to understand the Trinity is

this example, water tends to come in three forms, which are the chemical symbol H20. These forms are liquid water, ice, and water vapor or steam.

These forms are all composed of H20 and have the same nature but are used for different things. That to me is a good example of this Trinity concept,

that while the term does not show up in the Bible it is alluded to in many verses in the Bible. One case is the creation story in Genesis, the Great

Commission in Matthew, and there are many others. God bless.

 

[Ugly]

Ugly, that concept about the pie, makes me want to have some piece that I do not have at home. The way that helps me to understand the Trinity is

this example, water tends to come in three forms, which are the chemical symbol H20. These forms are liquid water, ice, and water vapor or steam.

These forms are all composed of H20 and have the same nature but are used for different things. That to me is a good example of this Trinity concept,

that while the term does not show up in the Bible it is alluded to in many verses in the Bible. One case is the creation story in Genesis, the Great

Commission in Matthew, and there are many others. God bless.

Yeah, i've heard that one as well. Its also a good one.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

Ugly, that concept about the pie, makes me want to have some piece that I do not have at home. The way that helps me to understand the Trinity is

this example, water tends to come in three forms, which are the chemical symbol H20. These forms are liquid water, ice, and water vapor or steam.

These forms are all composed of H20 and have the same nature but are used for different things. That to me is a good example of this Trinity concept,

that while the term does not show up in the Bible it is alluded to in many verses in the Bible. One case is the creation story in Genesis, the Great

Commission in Matthew, and there are many others. God bless.

Amen.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Light is also something that comes from combined parts that make one.

I bet we can all find the Father, Word, and Holy Spirit in this illustration.

If anyone has any input on the illustration (like if it's not clear in some way?), I would be happy to hear it, as I have not gotten much feedback, but maybe that should be another thread I guess.

http://christianchat.com/picture.php?albumid=8567&pictureid=55061

I would also like to add that it's very clear in scripture that Jesus is the example of a motivated spirit, a motivating spirit, and motivated body.

 

[MidniteWelder]

the Father is God and the Son is God, for he who is born of God is God
the Spirit of which is both eternal and self-existent can be nothing less than.....
omnipresent
omnipotent
omniscient
Almighty......GOD