Thought Crimes

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
C

CDavid

Guest
#1
#1
Jesus said that, if we look at a woman with lust in our heart, we are guilty of adultery.
Is this true for other sins. If our desire for things that belong to others is strong enough, are we guilty of theft?
If our anger and dislike for a person is so great, we desire that person to die, are we guilty of murder?
If our mental state is such that we have the desire to violate any of Gods commands, are we guilty of breaking that command? Are we guilty of breaking all the commands, simply by our thought crimes?
Are there degrees to sin? I mean does God judge us for our thought crimes, even though we fight and overcome the temptation, with the same harshness as He does the person, who takes the next step, and actually commits adultery or murder.

I believe God is a just God. I do not think God will punish our thought crimes, to the same degree as He will the actual commission of the crime. I believe God hates it when we think to do wrong, but He rejoices when we exercise self control.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#2
#2
the mind is the manufacturing plant of both
good and evil thoughts and actions.

prov 4:23

Above all else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows from it.New Living Translation

Guard your heart above all else, for it determines the course of your life.English Standard Version

Keep your heart with all vigilance, for from it flow the springs of life.New American Standard Bible

Watch over your heart with all diligence, For from it flow the springs of life.King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)

Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.Holman Christian Standard Bible

Guard your heart above all else, for it is the source of life.International Standard Version

Above everything else guard your heart, because from it flow the springs of life.

2 cor 10:5
New International Version
We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it
obedient to Christ.

New Living Translation
We destroy every proud obstacle that keeps people from knowing God. We capture their rebellious thoughts and teach them to obey Christ.

English Standard Version
We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,

New American Standard Bible
We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Holman Christian Standard Bible
and every high-minded thing that is raised up against the knowledge of God, taking every thought captive to obey Christ.


James 1:13-15 This can only happen in our thoughts.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.



 
G

GreenNnice

Guest
#3
#3
Yes, we all have them , but 'His mercies are new every morning.' :)
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#4
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
#4
Our sin has already been judged at Calvary.
 
JGPS

JGPS

Banned
#5
Jan 11, 2013
629
0
0
#5
CDavid said:
Jesus said that, if we look at a woman with lust in our heart, we are guilty of adultery.
Is this true for other sins. If our desire for things that belong to others is strong enough, are we guilty of theft?
If our anger and dislike for a person is so great, we desire that person to die, are we guilty of murder?
If our mental state is such that we have the desire to violate any of Gods commands, are we guilty of breaking that command? Are we guilty of breaking all the commands, simply by our thought crimes?
Are there degrees to sin? I mean does God judge us for our thought crimes, even though we fight and overcome the temptation, with the same harshness as He does the person, who takes the next step, and actually commits adultery or murder.

I believe God is a just God. I do not think God will punish our thought crimes, to the same degree as He will the actual commission of the crime. I believe God hates it when we think to do wrong, but He rejoices when we exercise self control.
Click to expand...
Exo 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his man-servant, nor his maid-servant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is thy neighbor's.
Click to expand...
Deu 5:21 Neither shalt thou covet thy neighbor's wife;
Click to expand...
Covetous always was a 'thought crime'. If your desire for things of others was strong enough you'd be guilty of coveting it. It always was like that, long before Jesus.

Just like looking at ones neighbours wife and wanting her always was adultery in ones heart, Christ was just expounding on it. Lust and covetous have almost the same meaning even...

From your thoughts comes your actions. It's important to guard your thoughts.
 
M

mark54

Banned
#6
Jan 11, 2013
2,256
17
0
#6
JGPS said:
Covetous always was a 'thought crime'. If your desire for things of others was strong enough you'd be guilty of coveting it. It always was like that, long before Jesus.

Just like looking at ones neighbours wife and wanting her always was adultery in ones heart, Christ was just expounding on it. Lust and covetous have almost the same meaning even...

From your thoughts comes your actions. It's important to guard your thoughts.
Click to expand...
I am sure Paul would have agreed with you(Rom7:7-11)
 
C

CDavid

Guest
#7
#7
Abiding said:
the mind is the manufacturing plant of both
good and evil thoughts and actions.

prov 4:23

Above all else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows from it.New Living Translation

Guard your heart above all else, for it determines the course of your life.English Standard Version

Keep your heart with all vigilance, for from it flow the springs of life.New American Standard Bible

Watch over your heart with all diligence, For from it flow the springs of life.King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)

Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.Holman Christian Standard Bible

Guard your heart above all else, for it is the source of life.International Standard Version

Above everything else guard your heart, because from it flow the springs of life.

2 cor 10:5
New International Version
We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it
obedient to Christ.

New Living Translation
We destroy every proud obstacle that keeps people from knowing God. We capture their rebellious thoughts and teach them to obey Christ.

English Standard Version
We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,

New American Standard Bible
We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Holman Christian Standard Bible
and every high-minded thing that is raised up against the knowledge of God, taking every thought captive to obey Christ.


James 1:13-15 This can only happen in our thoughts.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Click to expand...
All good stuff. No disagreement here. Still, I think that no just judge in any court room, would impose the same penalty for thinking wrong, as he would for doing wrong. Combine the fact that "His mercy endureth forever", and God is just, I have no doubt, that different sins are accorded different punishment. This would jibe with being rewarded according to our deeds, and "as ye sow, so shall ye reap". It is not a sin to be tempted, and to contemplate with desire is wrong, but to act on these wrong thoughts by carrying out the crime, is more serious. "If anyone says he has no sin, he is a liar", but there is "sin that leads to death". Therefore there are levels or degrees to the seriousness of different sins.
 
C

CDavid

Guest
#8
#8
JGPS said:
Covetous always was a 'thought crime'. If your desire for things of others was strong enough you'd be guilty of coveting it. It always was like that, long before Jesus.

Just like looking at ones neighbours wife and wanting her always was adultery in ones heart, Christ was just expounding on it. Lust and covetous have almost the same meaning even...

From your thoughts comes your actions. It's important to guard your thoughts.
Click to expand...
Let's not get hung up on lust, coveting, and sexual sin. Lets apply this idea to all sin.
For example, if we contemplate working, fishing, or playing golf on the Sabbath, we are guilty of violating that Law. And, if we are guilty of violating that law, we are guilty of breaking them all. I know the Sabbath is the easiest of all the laws to keep. I just use it as an example.

James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
 
Last edited:
N

Nancyer

Guest
#9
#9
CDavid said:
Let's not get hung up on lust, coveting, and sexual sin. Lets apply this idea to all sin.
For example, if we contemplate working, fishing, or playing golf on the Sabbath, we are guilty of violating that Law. And, if we are guilty of violating that law, we are guilty of breaking them all. I know the Sabbath is the easiest of all the laws to keep. I just use it as an example.

James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
Click to expand...
This sounds like sin-consciousness. Aren't we supposed to be in grace-consciousness? Understanding that we are all fallible and imperfect and therefore will all sin. But the blood of Jesus took care of ALL our sins, once and for all, for ever and all of time. This doesn't mean we are free to sin, commit wrong acts, as we choose, but that we are no longer condemned.

Romans 8:1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, who live and walk not in the flesh but in the Spirit.
 
peacefulbeliever

peacefulbeliever

Senior Member
#10
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
63
#10
GreenNnice said:
Yes, we all have them , but 'His mercies are new every morning.' :)
Click to expand...
Yes. . .I love this. .

Becasue of the LORD's great love we are not consumed, for his compassions never fail. They are new every morning; great is your faithfulness. Lamentations 3:22,23

Live each day at a time. . .that's all we can handle! Matthew 6:34b Each day has enough trouble of its own.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#11
#11
CDavid said:
Jesus said that, if we look at a woman with lust in our heart, we are guilty of adultery.
Is this true for other sins. If our desire for things that belong to others is strong enough, are we guilty of theft?
If our anger and dislike for a person is so great, we desire that person to die, are we guilty of murder?
If our mental state is such that we have the desire to violate any of Gods commands, are we guilty of breaking that command? Are we guilty of breaking all the commands, simply by our thought crimes?
Are there degrees to sin? I mean does God judge us for our thought crimes, even though we fight and overcome the temptation, with the same harshness as He does the person, who takes the next step, and actually commits adultery or murder.

I believe God is a just God. I do not think God will punish our thought crimes, to the same degree as He will the actual commission of the crime. I believe God hates it when we think to do wrong, but He rejoices when we exercise self control.
Click to expand...
depends on what you mean by punish.

if you mean it makes us unworthy of eternal life or condemn us, I think they do, they are just as bad as actually doing them.

if you mean by temporal punishment. I think that is up in the air..lol God is eternally merciful. will just leave it at that
 
N

nonicknametouse

Guest
#12
#12
I believe that sin is sin and there is no sin that is acceptable to God. Even our thougths.

I once heard this story from a Chritian station. Teens came to their Dad and asked if they can go see a movie that was rated PG13. He said no because it had prophanity in it and felt it was not a good movie to see. So of course the kids tried to convince their Dad to let them see the movie, but the answer was still no and the kids could not understand what the big deal was. Well , One night after dinner, the Dad took out special brownies as a treat. But he also told the kids that he put a very little bit of dog poop in the brownies. You can imagine the kid's response. What , ill we are not eating that with poop in it. The Dad said to them but there is only a little in there. Of course they would not eat the brownies. Finally the Dad asked the kids , why would you not eat these brownies with just a little poop in them, but you are so willing to go to movie with just a little prophanity in it.

There is no such thing as a little sin. Many think that bad thoughts are not sin because you don't actually act upon them. Sin begins with a thought. if you are in a weak state you may act upon it. That is why we need to take out thoughts captive in obedience to God.

Hebrews 4:12-13 Psalms 94:11


To make it simple thought crimes are a sin.
 
JGPS

JGPS

Banned
#13
Jan 11, 2013
629
0
0
#13
CDavid said:
Let's not get hung up on lust, coveting, and sexual sin. Lets apply this idea to all sin.
For example, if we contemplate working, fishing, or playing golf on the Sabbath, we are guilty of violating that Law. And, if we are guilty of violating that law, we are guilty of breaking them all. I know the Sabbath is the easiest of all the laws to keep. I just use it as an example.

James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
Click to expand...
Oh no, heaven forbid we get hung up on what scripture says about the topic. Lets just apply it however we want and as broadly as we want.


Jesus said what he said there because he was expounding on a specific sin, covetousness, and impressing on people how serious it was. He wasn't declaring open season to call any objectionable thought a sin. For the most part sin is in the doing rather than the thinking. Covetous is and always was a sin of thought.
 
C

CDavid

Guest
#14
#14
Well, it seems there is quite a bit of you who just want to argue, and demonstrate your inability to really have an intelligent dialog.

Will pray for you
 
JGPS

JGPS

Banned
#15
Jan 11, 2013
629
0
0
#15
I have no patience for people writing their own scripture.

I also have no patience for people that can't brook any disagreement.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.