Thoughts on "Jesus took our punishment"

[homwardbound]

Jesus sufferings began before the cross.His sufferings begin on thursday night in the garden of gethsemane and end on friday afternoon.The way you make it sound is that Jesus suffered a few hours on a cross and this paid for our sins.it was much more than that my friend and the pain was not only physical but mental,emotional,spiritual and psychological. The physical trauma of Christ begins in Gethsemane with one of the initial aspects of His suffering - the bloody sweat. It is interesting that the physician of the group, St. Luke, is the only one to mention this. He says, “And being in agony, He prayed the longer. And his sweat became as drops of blood, trickling down upon the ground.”
Though very rare, the phenomenon of hemathidrosis, or bloody sweat, is well documented. Under great emotional stress, tiny capillaries in the sweat glands can break, thus mixing blood with sweat. This process alone could have produced marked weakness and possible shock.
After the arrest in the middle of the night, Jesus was brought before the Sanhedrin and Caiaphas, the High Priest. A soldier struck Jesus across the face for remaining silent when questioned by Caiaphas. The palace guards then blindfolded Him and mockingly taunted Him to identify them as they each passed by; they spat on Him and struck Him in the face.
Condemned to Crucifixion

In the early morning, Jesus, battered and bruised, dehydrated, and exhausted from a sleepless night, was taken across Jerusalem to the Praetorium of the Fortress Antonia. It was there, in response to the cries of the mob, that Pilate ordered Bar-Abbas released and condemned Jesus to scourging and crucifixion.
Flogging first

Preparations for the scourging are carried out. The prisoner is stripped of His clothing and His hands tied to a post above His head. The Roman legionnaire steps forward with the flagrum in his hand. This is a short whip consisting of several heavy, leather thongs with two small balls of lead attached to the ends of each. The heavy whip is brought down with fill force again and again across Jesus’ shoulders, back and legs.
At first the heavy thongs cut through the skin only. Then, as the blows continue, they cut deeper into subcutaneous tissues, producing first an oozing of blood from the capillaries and veins of the skin, and finally spurting arterial bleeding from vessels in the underlying muscles. The small balls of lead first produce large, deep bruises which are broken open by subsequent blows.
Finally the skin of the back is hanging in long ribbons and the entire area is an unrecognizable mass of torn, bleeding tissue. When it is determined by the centurion in charge that the prisoner is near death, the beating is stopped.
The half-fainting Jesus is then untied and allowed to slump to the stone pavement, wet with His own blood. The Roman soldiers see a great joke in this provincial Jew claiming to be a king. They throw a robe across His shoulders and place a stick in His hand for a sceptre. A small bundle of flexible branches covered with long thorns is pressed into His scalp.
Again there is copious bleeding (the scalp being one of the most vascular areas in the body). After mocking Him and striking Him across the face, the soldiers take the stick from His hand and strike Him across the head, driving the thorns deeper into His scalp. Finally, they tire of their sadistic sport and the robe is torn from his back. This had already become adherent to the colts of blood and serum in the wounds, and its removal, just as in the careless removal of a surgical bandage, cause excruciating pain - almost as though He were again being whipped, and the wounds again begin to bleed.
The walk to crucifixion

The heavy beam of the cross is then tied across His shoulders, and the procession of the condemned Christ, two thieves and the execution detail, begins its slow journey, The weight of the heavy wooden beam, together with the shock produced by copious blood loss, is too much. He stumbles and falls. The rough wood of the beam gouges into the lacerated skin and muscles of the shoulders. He tries to rise, but human muscles have been pushed beyond their endurance.
The nails of crucifixion

At Golgotha, the beam is placed on the ground and Jesus is quickly thrown backward with His shoulders against the wood. The legionnaire feels for the depression at the front of the wrist. He drives a heavy, square, wrought-iron nail through the wrist and deep inot the wood. Quickly, he moves to the other side and repeats the action, being careful not to pull the arms too tightly, but to allow some flexion and movement. The beam is then lifted in place at the top of the posts and the titulus reading “Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews” is nailed in place.
The pain of crucifixion

The left foot is pressed backward against the right foot, and with both feet extended, toes down, a nail is driven through the arch of each. As he pushes Himself upward to avoid the stretching torment, He places His full weight on the nail through His feet. Again there is the searing agony of the nail through His feet. Again there is the searing agony of the nail tearing through the nerves between the metatarsal bones through the feet.
Crucifixion - the medical effects

As the arms fatigue, great waves of cramps sweep over the muscles, knotting them in deep, relentless, throbbing pain. With these cramps comes the inability to push Himself upward. Hanging by His arms, the pectoral muscles are unable to act. Air can be drawn into the lungs, but cannot be exhaled. Jesus fights to raise Himself in order to get even one short breath. Finally, carbon dioxide builds up in the lungs and in the blood stream and the cramps partially subside. Spasmodically, He is able to push Himself upward to exhale and bring in the life-giving oxygen.
Hours of this limitless pain, cycles of twisting, joint-rending cramps, intermittent partial asphyxiation, searing pain as tissue is torn from His lacerated back as He moves up and down against the rough timber. Then another agony begins. A deep crushing pain deep in the chest as the pericardium slowly fills with serum and begins to compress the heart.
The compressed heart is struggling to pump heavy, thick, sluggish blood into the tissues - the tortured lungs are making a frantic effort to gasp in small gulps of air. The markedly dehydrated tissues send their flood of stimuli to the brain. Jesus gasps, “I thirst.”
Crucifixion - the last gasp

He can feel the chill of death creeping through His tissues. With one last surge of strength, He once again presses His torn feet against the nail, straightens His legs, takes a deeper breath, and utters His seventh and last cry, “Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit.”
Apparently to make doubly sure of death, the legionnaire drove his lance through the fifth interspace between the ribs, upward through the pericardium and into the heart. Immediately there came out blood and water.

I do not like that he went through all that suffering, yet I know it had to be for new life to come out of it as a woman suffers during birth, yet after the birth is WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Joyful.
Thanks

 

[homwardbound]

Hi Homeward,

I agree the word atonement never takes away sin, infact words only convey meaning. Yes, I can agree that Yom Kippur was not the same as Christ's atonement because it was only a shadow of things to come.. Jesus' sacrifice was once for all time.


Are you seriously trying to say that Jesus' sacrifice just removed sin from before the Fathers sight?

You forget the fact that Jesus became a curse for us..why did he become a curse in our place? was the curse not a punishment?

That Christ died for OUR sins.. why did he do that?

The list could go on..but let me ask you this, If Jesus did not bare our punishment then we have been let of the hook, that sounds good doesnt it? but in fact that is not just and certainly not justice!

How can we be just - made right before a just and Holy God without Holy justice.

I think you need to re read, what went on in the day of atonement.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. [SUP]10 [/SUP]As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”[SUP][b][/SUP]
[SUP]13 [/SUP]“Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”[SUP][c][/SUP]
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”[SUP][d][/SUP]
[SUP]14 [/SUP] “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”[SUP][e][/SUP]
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] ruin and misery mark their ways,
[SUP]17 [/SUP]and the way of peace they do not know.”[SUP][f][/SUP]
[SUP]18 [/SUP] “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”[SUP][g][/SUP]

[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
Righteousness Through Faith

[SUP]21 [/SUP]But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. [SUP]22 [/SUP]This righteousness is given through faith in[SUP][h][/SUP] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, [SUP]23 [/SUP]for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, [SUP]24 [/SUP]and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. [SUP]25 [/SUP]God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,[SUP][i][/SUP] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—[SUP]26 [/SUP]he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

I know of nothing that I have said any different than the righteousness is of God and from God through Christ.
What is it that you think I am saying, for there is a misread somewhere from someone or something, please post exactly what you think I say other than all glory goes to God through Christ. Christ is not the Atonement; Christ is the taking away of all sins in Father's sight so Father today can live in us. eventually through us as we grow in this new life Father gave us in the Spirit of him, by the resurrected Christ
Thank you so we both can grow in God's grace and be who God made us to be through the death of Son
Colossians 1:22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight—