unless the Father draw us (John 6:44)

[posthuman]

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.
(John 6:44)
​

how does the Father draw us to Him?

does this imply the Spirit works in us before we can even believe?
and in a way of speaking, if we believe, then He seals & remains with us?
does this line up with that:

It is written: “I believed; therefore I have spoken.”
Since we have that same spirit of faith, we also believe
and therefore speak
(2 Corinthians 4:13)

​

?
​

i also wonder what this means about predetermination, then i remember what He said -

"And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”
He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.
(John 12:32)

​

but this isn't about a slippery slope towards universalism, or a free-will debate (even so feel "free" to say whatever you're led to), it's about the mechanics of God drawing us towards Him.

i know there is no boasting except in Him, and wonder at the mystery of how He came to call me, and how i came to respond

 

[Magenta]

.
He drew me through unconditional love and forgiveness.

 

[Blain]

He draws everyone they just don't listen, nowadays it is nearly impossible to not hear about the gospel it has literally been spread all around the world through internet radio t.v. grandparents mothers and fathers fellow believers going all around the world to foreign countries just to help needy and teach them about the gospel and many more ways as well. In fact to many this is what is wrong with the world, many believe religion as a virus that won't go away and believe if it was gone humanity could strive to much greater heights.

God will go to great lengths to wrap his lost children in his arms
1 Timothy 2:4 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[breno785au]

Lol He was wooing me to Him for years before I gave up on my stubbornness, still a work in progress though.

We can ask for the salvation of others, though often times I forget this. It His will that all would come to repentance, and anything we ask for in Jesus name we will receive..right? Sometimes it may look like nothing is happening or the person is getting worse but we don't know what God is doing in their heart.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

It is the Spirit that draws us, here is a post I wrote some time back on the being drawn by desire.

Jesus said in John 6:44 “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.” This is a true saying, but what does “draw him” mean? The word draw there means… 1. to draw, drag off 2. metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel.

So there is an invisible force that draws us to the Son, and that invisible force is the Spirit of God that makes us desire the Word and will of God.

The opposite of this can also be shown in the spirit of this world, and their desire to do the will of their father the Devil as well. When we were in the flesh we were drawn away by the lusts of the flesh, which resulted in sin, which is also the Devils desire. James 1:14 “But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.”

When we were young and without God in our life we were once drawn by an invisible force (spirit) that made us desire the lusts of the eyes (outward beauty). And we during that time of darkness did not desire to seek out the Lord or His Word, I know I didn’t. So in a sense we did not desire the invisible beauty of the Lord, which the world cannot see.

Listen to Isaiah 53:2 “For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.”

Many people thinking with the mind of the flesh think this verse is speaking of Jesus’ outward physical appearance, but I disagree. First thing notice in that verse above we are told he has “no form” meaning…shape, form, outline, figure, appearance. And also notice we are told he had no “comeliness” meaning…ornament, splendour, honour, glory. And even though we now know Jesus had all these things, we as in “the world” could not see His beauty with our outward eyes.

And that is also confirmed in the last part of Isaiah 53:2…”there is no beauty that we should desire him” And why is that? It is because we were not yet drawn by the Father to see His inward glory and beauty as a Stone most precious in the eyes of God.
1 Peter 2:4 “To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,”

And to those whom the Father has drawn, and believe in Him, He also is precious because they can now behold His beauty. 1 Peter 2:6-7 “Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.[SUP]7 [/SUP]Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,”

And why did they reject the precious Stone of God? It was because they did not desire His beauty, nor could they at that time behold His glory, the glory as of the only begotten Son of God. But we see Him, but not as the world sees.

1 Peter 1:8 “Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

 

[wattie]

The Holy Spirit does draw people, convicting them of their need for salvation. This drawing though is resistible, contrary to the TULIP.

Hence then is where believing, change of mind, heart... comes in. Romans 10, John 3:16 etc..

TULIP teaching would say the belief is after being saved... but that's the wrong way round.

The belief not being a work but a change of heart, mind from being convicted first..

Just like the public an. ..who smote his chest, saying God be merciful to me, a sinner.

How did he know he was a sinner without being drawn, convicted first?

 

[crossnote]

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.
(John 6:44)
​

how does the Father draw us to Him?

does this imply the Spirit works in us before we can even believe?
and in a way of speaking, if we believe, then He seals & remains with us?
does this line up with that:

It is written: “I believed; therefore I have spoken.”
Since we have that same spirit of faith, we also believe
and therefore speak
(2 Corinthians 4:13)

​

?
​

i also wonder what this means about predetermination, then i remember what He said -

"And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”
He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.
(John 12:32)

​

but this isn't about a slippery slope towards universalism, or a free-will debate (even so feel "free" to say whatever you're led to), it's about the mechanics of God drawing us towards Him.

i know there is no boasting except in Him, and wonder at the mystery of how He came to call me, and how i came to respond

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the Prophets, 'And they will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me—
(Joh 6:44-45)


I believe the emphasis is on the fact that it is the Father that draws us and it is the Son who raises us up. Remember the Jews didn't have a concept of Father/Son as God. Jesus here was dropping hints of His equality with the Father.

As far as the means of drawing us, I believe the Holy Spirit does a convicting work of our sin, through the law, revealing our need for a Savior, opening the eyes of our understanding through the Gospel message that Jesus Christ is that Savior we need.

 

[angel007]

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.
(John 6:44)
​

how does the Father draw us to Him?

does this imply the Spirit works in us before we can even believe?
and in a way of speaking, if we believe, then He seals & remains with us?
does this line up with that:

It is written: “I believed; therefore I have spoken.”
Since we have that same spirit of faith, we also believe
and therefore speak
(2 Corinthians 4:13)

​

?
​

i also wonder what this means about predetermination, then i remember what He said -

"And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”
He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.
(John 12:32)

​

but this isn't about a slippery slope towards universalism, or a free-will debate (even so feel "free" to say whatever you're led to), it's about the mechanics of God drawing us towards Him.

i know there is no boasting except in Him, and wonder at the mystery of how He came to call me, and how i came to respond

Posthuman here is something for you the think on, 1Cor. 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The natural man is spiritually discerned, it's all foolishness to him, But God is able to do a work in us by His Spirit. Every saved person here at one time was in the state of the natural man and the things of the Spirit of God was foolishness also unto us....

Tit 3:3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

The natural man is the one who only knows how to follow after the flesh. Its takes the regeneration, a renewing which comes from the Holy Spirit of God. In John 6:63-65 we see Jesus saying, "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life./But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him./And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father."

God by His Spirit searches the heart of every man and woman, He alone knows who is who. There has to be a regeneration, a renewing of the heart When Jesus calls out to His sheep, they come and follow (John 10:25-27). Every Christian has a testimony, we each have a unique story to tell how God begin drawing us to His Son. It really is out of God's unconditional love, mercy and grace.

I hope this helps.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Jeremiah 31:3
3The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

Psalm 40:5-9
5Many, O LORD my God, are thy wonderful works which thou hast done, and thy thoughts which are to us-ward: they cannot be reckoned up in order unto thee: if I would declare and speak of them, they are more than can be numbered.
6Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.
7Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
8I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
9I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O LORD, thou knowest.

John 6:38-40
38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Ephesians 1:3-14
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; 8Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; 9Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: 10That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

John 6:63-65
63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. 64But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. 65And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Luke 2:14
Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

Philippians 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

By Grace,through faith,on the Word,through Christ,for the glory of God,alone