Visting the fathers sin on the children

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Ayo24

Guest
#1
And the LORD passed before him and proclaimed "The LORD,the LORD GOD,merciful and gracious,longsuffering and abounding in goodness and truth. Keeping mercy for thousands forgiving iniquity and trangression and sin,by no means clearing the guilty,visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the chilren and children's children to the third and forth generations"
Does God still visit the father's iniquity on the children?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#2
No, He does not. It is written in Tanakh that man will pay for his own sins.
And the LORD passed before him and proclaimed "The LORD,the LORD GOD,merciful and


gracious,longsuffering and abounding in goodness and truth. Keeping mercy for thousands forgiving iniquity and trangression and sin,by no means clearing the guilty,visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the chilren and children's children to the third and forth generations"
Does God still visit the father's iniquity on the children?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,242
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#3
Here is one teaching from Ezekiel........


Eze 18:14
Now, lo, if he beget a son, that seeth all his father'ssins, which he hath done, and feareth, and doeth not such like;

Eze 18:15
that hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, hath not defiled his neighbor's wife,

Eze 18:16
neither hath wronged any, hath not taken aught to pledge, neither hath taken by robbery, but hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment;

Eze 18:17
that hath withdrawn his hand from the poor, that hath not received interest nor increase, hath executed mine ordinances, hath walked in my statutes; he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live.


 
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phil112

Guest
#4
Your answer is in the bible. Study to show thyself approved unto God, rightly dividing the word of truth...........

[h=3]Ezekiel 18:1-3[/h]

The word of the Lord came unto me again, saying,
[SUP] [/SUP]What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?
[SUP] [/SUP]As I live, saith the Lord God, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#5
I think that scripture is always to be listened to, even when one scripture seems to conflict with another. It is true that sins are passed from the father, and that we pay for our own sins.

A child that is raised with no love in the home, has a hard time learning to express love, even after they receive Christ. A child who lives a life within a family who feels togetherness enough to care for each other usually feels that family connection. It requires that we face the sins of our fathers, not with blaming or without forgiveness, but to see that we separate ourselves from those sins and follow our heavenly Father.
 
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phil112

Guest
#6
I think that scripture is always to be listened to, even when one scripture seems to conflict with another. It is true that sins are passed from the father, and that we pay for our own sins............
How can you say that when plain scripture denies it?

Jeremiah 31:29 - In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. 30 - But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.
 
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Least

Guest
#7
I think that scripture is always to be listened to, even when one scripture seems to conflict with another. It is true that sins are passed from the father, and that we pay for our own sins.

A child that is raised with no love in the home, has a hard time learning to express love, even after they receive Christ. A child who lives a life within a family who feels togetherness enough to care for each other usually feels that family connection. It requires that we face the sins of our fathers, not with blaming or without forgiveness, but to see that we separate ourselves from those sins and follow our heavenly Father.
I agree RedTent,

It's not difficult even in the world to see how things such as addictions, dependency, poverty, and as RedTent shared, even lack in the ability to express love, pass from generation to generation.

The very first mention of this that I found in the scriptures is this:

Exodus 34:6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, long-suffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
Exodus 34:7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

Even in the instances of natural issues that go from generation to generation, With God those things can be stopped, and changed! The very first mention even speaks of God's mercy and forgiveness of iniquity, transgression and sin.
That's one of the blessing that we have in Christ, we are overcomers in HIM!

That is why the scriptures go on in other passages to say this:

Deuteronomy 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

To continue in sin is to be against God, but Just as the fathers could repent and be forgiven, the children also can repent and break the patterns that are against God in their own lives and they can be changed.

There are several examples of this in the scriptures. If you do a study on all of the Kings, when their crown was passed to the sons, some did as their fathers did and were wicked, and some did right in the sight of the LORD, removing high places and vanquishing idol worship.

It's not a contradiction at all. It is good news.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#8

I believe one side is being said, the sins of the father will effect the children, while the other side is thinking the children will be expected to pay for the father's sins.

I believe the Holy Scripture makes reference to the latter.
 
L

Least

Guest
#9

I believe one side is being said, the sins of the father will effect the children, while the other side is thinking the children will be expected to pay for the father's sins.

I believe the Holy Scripture makes reference to the latter.
Hi Brother J,

I did a word search on each verse that mentions, "sins of the fathers,' and teeth set on edge."

Perhaps we can examine all of these.

Exodus 34:6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, long-suffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
Exodus 34:7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

This goes on to confirm the meaning of the passage above.

Deuteronomy 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

I found these next passages especially insightful this morning as I went through the verses:

Numbers 32:13 And the LORD's anger was kindled against Israel, and he made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until all the generation, that had done evil in the sight of the LORD, was consumed.
Numbers 32:14 And, behold, ye are risen up in your fathers' stead, an increase of sinful men, to augment yet the fierce anger of the LORD toward Israel.

Even those who were first brought into Israel were referred to as "fathers," and again and again the people followed the same steps that they followed that brought the anger of the LORD toward Israel.

1 Kings 14:22 And Judah did evil in the sight of the LORD, and they provoked him to jealousy with their sins which they had committed, above all that their fathers had done.

2 Kings 14:6 But the children of the murderers he slew not: according unto that which is written in the book of the law of Moses, wherein the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

2 Chronicles 6:24 And if thy people Israel be put to the worse before the enemy, because they have sinned against thee; and shall return and confess thy name, and pray and make supplication before thee in this house;
2 Chronicles 6:25 Then hear thou from the heavens, and forgive the sin of thy people Israel, and bring them again unto the land which thou gavest to them and to their fathers.

Nehemiah 9:2 And the seed of Israel separated themselves from all strangers, and stood and confessed their sins, and the iniquities of their fathers.
Nehemiah 9:3 And they stood up in their place, and read in the book of the law of the LORD their God one fourth part of the day; and another fourth part they confessed, and worshipped the LORD their God.

So it isn't just a generation thing, (from father to son,) but also from the elders of old, and examples set before even our time.

Jeremiah 14:20 We acknowledge, O LORD, our wickedness, and the iniquity of our fathers: for we have sinned against thee.

Daniel 9:16 O LORD, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us.

Acts 7:37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
Acts 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
Acts 7:39 To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt,
Acts 7:40 Saying unto Aaron, Make us gods to go before us: for as for this Moses, which brought us out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.
Acts 7:41 And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands.

Ezekiel 18:2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?

Ezekiel 18:3 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.
Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die
.
Ezekiel 18:5 But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right,
Ezekiel 18:6 And hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, neither hath defiled his neighbour's wife, neither hath come near to a menstruous woman,
Ezekiel 18:7 And hath not oppressed any, but hath restored to the debtor his pledge, hath spoiled none by violence, hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment;
Ezekiel 18:8 He that hath not given forth upon usury, neither hath taken any increase, that hath withdrawn his hand from iniquity, hath executed true judgment between man and man,
Ezekiel 18:9 Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord GOD.
Ezekiel 18:10 If he beget a son that is a robber, a shedder of blood, and that doeth the like to any one of these things,
Ezekiel 18:11 And that doeth not any of those duties, but even hath eaten upon the mountains, and defiled his neighbour's wife,
Ezekiel 18:12 Hath oppressed the poor and needy, hath spoiled by violence, hath not restored the pledge, and hath lifted up his eyes to the idols, hath committed abomination,
Ezekiel 18:13 Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him.

Jeremiah 31:29 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.
Jeremiah 31:30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.

Jeremiah here is given a correction: "say no more, "The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge, NEXT VERSE: "Every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge."

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jeremiah 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#10
Thank you, my post was an attempt to settle a slight misunderstanding, actually I have read most of these scritpures just this past week. In my Hebrew study, I am reading in Jeremiah at present, very slowly, but surely. It is a lot of fun, and for me revealing. Others have no need to study the language, but it seems to be my cup of tea. Nowhere near being an expert at all, just enjoying the Word with the Lord. Yahweh, God, bless you and hold you close always.............jack
 
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reject-tech

Guest
#11
And the LORD passed before him and proclaimed "The LORD,the LORD GOD,merciful and gracious,longsuffering and abounding in goodness and truth. Keeping mercy for thousands forgiving iniquity and trangression and sin,by no means clearing the guilty,visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the chilren and children's children to the third and forth generations"
Does God still visit the father's iniquity on the children?
"Visiting the iniquity upon" does not mean the same thing as holding someone accountable for another persons sin.

Iniquity means unfairness.

It means you won't be able to hide your iniquity from your children, grand children, and great grand children, and as a result they are going to be subject to your bad influence, as well as the opposite, perceiving your iniquity as an example of what not to become.
It doesn't go beyond the fourth generation because very few people know or can observe the iniquity of a great great grandparent. They usually die before that generation is able to experience them.

It's just a reminder of something that happens that we already observe and know.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#12
And the LORD passed before him and proclaimed "The LORD,the LORD GOD,merciful and gracious,longsuffering and abounding in goodness and truth. Keeping mercy for thousands forgiving iniquity and trangression and sin,by no means clearing the guilty,visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the chilren and children's children to the third and forth generations"
Does God still visit the father's iniquity on the children?
I believe in grace and mercy, having said that I was a little wild before I got right with God and out of my three children we lost two before birth and my first born son has congential myotonic dystrophy which my wife carries and we didn't know till the birth of (booger) my nickname for him. I am not saying this was God's judgment as I am just stating facts. :)
 
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nathan3

Guest
#13
And the LORD passed before him and proclaimed "The LORD,the LORD GOD,merciful and gracious,longsuffering and abounding in goodness and truth. Keeping mercy for thousands forgiving iniquity and trangression and sin,by no means clearing the guilty,visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the chilren and children's children to the third and forth generations"
Does God still visit the father's iniquity on the children?
The verse is muddied, not word for word, and you cut off the last part of the verse that explains that God dose not do that.

" to those that Hate me " . If the offspring hate God , what do you think their life will be like on an individual basis ?
 
Jul 26, 2013
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#14
Here is one teaching from Ezekiel........


Eze 18:14
Now, lo, if he beget a son, that seeth all his father'ssins, which he hath done, and feareth, and doeth not such like;

Eze 18:15
that hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, hath not defiled his neighbor's wife,

Eze 18:16
neither hath wronged any, hath not taken aught to pledge, neither hath taken by robbery, but hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment;

Eze 18:17
that hath withdrawn his hand from the poor, that hath not received interest nor increase, hath executed mine ordinances, hath walked in my statutes; he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live.


This is why we die today.