We have lost the vision of being holy, and as believers, are merely a group of people who share a common belief in Jesus as our Savior, who live no differently day-to-day than the culture we are surrounded by. Jesus bequeathed to us that vision when He gave his disciples what we call the Great commission inMatthew 28:19-20 (CJB). “Therefore, go and make people from all nations into talmidim [disciples], immersing them into the reality of the father, the Son and the Ruach HaKodesh [Holy Spirit], and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember! I will be with you always, yes, even unto the end of the age.”Many places in the scripture tell us that Christians are a people who are supposed to be holy, set apart, consecrated – “a peculiar people” as it is put in the KJV. This is God’s design, His plan, and like everything He does, it requires a response from us – us, who proudly profess that He is our Lord, our Savior, and our Master…not that an observer would be able to discern it from watching most of us. “Therefore consecrate yourselves—you people must be holy, because I am ADONAI your God. Observe my regulations, and obey them; I am ADONAI, who sets you apart to be holy.” Leviticus 20:7-8 (CJB)
We have lost the vision of being holy...
- Thread starter just-us-2
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
You make a great point! I sometimes question other christians (but I don't judge) if they really are christians because of the things they do after the church. Is it possible to live for Christ but then do the same thing as non-christians do? I honestly don't think so. I believe that the church is trying to get with the times, whereas the times should get with the church. People obviously don't want to change completely because they don't want to give up who they are. Once you give everything up for Christ, that's when you actually start to see things happening. I use to be like that. I was living a double life. It was until I completely gave myself over when I felt and saw the wonderful love of Christ.
We're getting close to the end times. That's why all of these things are happening. Just like Timothy said:
"For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natrual affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasure more than lovers of god; having a form of godliness, but denying the power therof: from such turn away"
We're getting close to the end times. That's why all of these things are happening. Just like Timothy said:
"For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natrual affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasure more than lovers of god; having a form of godliness, but denying the power therof: from such turn away"
Everyone should have a general idea of what holiness is, but let’s assume for now that a definition or description is necessary. Since there is an incomplete doctrine that is very popular these days making its mark in the world, the first thing to recognize is that this ‘holiness’ we are talking about is NOT referring to being justified or saved by ‘works.’ Nor is it advocating we must be ‘perfect’ as we normally think of the word.
Matthew 5:48 says, “Therefore, be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.” In this context, ‘perfect’ means entire, complete, with sincerity fully developed. Furthermore, except maybe for those who have been deceived into believing the Law with its moral code is irrelevant now, we [who claim to be Christians] would say we should live holy lives because the scriptures tell us so. But stop and think how horrendously rampant such lip service is today. Christians
say the right things while at the same time daily carry on as if they are above having to live holy lives, as Hebrews 12:14 (CJB) says:“Keep pursuing shalom with everyone and the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.”
B
He said, “Tell the people of Israel, ‘You must always keep my Sabbath days. That will be the sign of the covenant I have made between me and you for all time to come. Then you will know that I am the Lord. I make you holy. - Ex. 31:13, NIRV
PAUL: So I’m telling you this, and I insist on it in the Lord: you shouldn’t live your life like the Gentiles anymore... - Eph. 4:17, Common English Bible (CEB)
At that time you were without Christ. You were aliens rather than citizens of Israel, and strangers to the covenants ... - Ephesians 2:12, CEB
PAUL: So I’m telling you this, and I insist on it in the Lord: you shouldn’t live your life like the Gentiles anymore... - Eph. 4:17, Common English Bible (CEB)
At that time you were without Christ. You were aliens rather than citizens of Israel, and strangers to the covenants ... - Ephesians 2:12, CEB
It is one thing to slip up and an entirely different thing to practice sin day after day. I would hate to think we are so stupid as to not realize that basic immoral lifestyles – sexual impurity of all kinds, cheating (even on taxes!), lying (even a little), gossip, drunkenness, etc. – are sin and fall far short of the holiness God demands of those who associate themselves with His name. “As people who obey God, do not let yourselves be shaped by the evil desires you used to have when you were still ignorant. On the contrary, following the Holy One who called you, become holy yourselves in your entire way of life; since the Tanakh says, ‘You are to be holy because I am holy.’” I Peter 1:14-16 (CJB)This would probably be a good time to bring to mind the words of James 4:17: “So then, anyone who knows the right thing to do and fails to do it is committing a sin.” Simply put, responsibility = the right thing to do. We are responsible for living a ‘holy’ life and most of us try our best for as much as we know. Once we know something we are held responsible by God, to do what we know is right. “In the past, God overlooked such ignorance; but now he is commanding all people everywhere to turn to Him from their sins.” (Acts 17:30) But what about when we see other professing Christians living contrary to God’s demands? Left un-addressed, this evil corrupts the entire body of believers.Just imagine for a moment, that you know someone in this astronomical number of people, who doesn’t realize that he/she is doing the wrong thing by living any one of these lifestyles and using the excuse, “I’m not hurting anyone.” You know what is going on. You are a Christian. What, if any, is your responsibility? Equally as plainly told to us is the answer in Ezekiel 33. Before we are halfway through the chapter we are told three times what our duty is and what the outcome will be when we do the right thing…..and if we fail to do the right thing. In a nutshell, if we don’t warn others when they are doing wrong, we are just as guilty. Don’t like the Old Testament? Then look at the little tiny book of 2 John. Only thirteen verses long, it speaks volumes, but for this discussion we are particularly concerned with verses 9-11: “Everyone who goes ahead and does not remain true to what the Messiah has taught does not have God. Those who remain true to this teaching have both the Father and the Son. If someone comes to you and does not bring this teaching don’t welcome him into your home. Don’t even say, “Shalom!” to him; for the person who says, “Shalom!” to him shares in his evil deeds.”
N
I so agree. I made the same point on another thread and I don't understand how those who say they are Christians can go so against the obvious Words of God and not seem to realize it.
Most recently I was talking to neighbors who have said they "go to church" and love God, love Jesus, consider themselves Christians. But in the coarse of the conversation they used cuss words almost as much as "the" or "um".
Why do people seem to need to do that? And is there a good, non-condemning way to address it? Should I say something at the time? It makes me very uncomfortable and I pray for these people, as they obviously "know not what they are doing".
Most recently I was talking to neighbors who have said they "go to church" and love God, love Jesus, consider themselves Christians. But in the coarse of the conversation they used cuss words almost as much as "the" or "um".
Why do people seem to need to do that? And is there a good, non-condemning way to address it? Should I say something at the time? It makes me very uncomfortable and I pray for these people, as they obviously "know not what they are doing".
A lot to address in what you say. They are either unsaved and 1 Cor 2:14 applies or they are saved but babes never having been fed from Gods word. Impossible for me to determine but the cure is the same in both cases. The word of God. Share as much of the word with them and they will either grow in the nurture of the Lord or become convicted of their sin, righteousness, and the judgment of God.
When they start with impure language suggest to them that the bible says that sweet water and bitter water cannot come from the same well. Encourage them think introspectively about how they are acting. Share with them how Jesus was pure and holy.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
When they start with impure language suggest to them that the bible says that sweet water and bitter water cannot come from the same well. Encourage them think introspectively about how they are acting. Share with them how Jesus was pure and holy.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Our church, from the first year God said Jewish people like James, the brother of Christ, was not to lead the church but gentiles were to lead have worked against what we call Judaism. Judaism was all about putting the sacred in the everyday, it was paths to God from the ordinary. They can be used to no effect, but even prayer can be used to no effect.
It was necessary at first to explain Judaism. God is not about our routines, God is about our spirit. So when pagans were told that God was about what they ate and circumcision we have to be told that is not so. In telling us this we are told that sin is nailed to the cross, that we are under grace not law, etc. These things are fundamental, but if they are read without the understanding of set God principles about what faith is (it includes doing) and how God's love works, it gets twisted up.
Our church has discovered that lots of our traditions came about when pagans first became Christian and they mixed some of what they knew in to God worship. We take the holidays they put in the church and some of the practice and stand firm that they are just fine, they were changed to only be of God. They are OK but we stand just as firm against any of the day to day routines that God suggested be made to reflect Him. Doesn't make sense to me.
I put up a mezuzah when I read and understood why God suggested it, and how it has been used these thousands of years. It has the words about my love for the Lord in a little box nailed to my front door post. My pastor saw it. He said I was becoming a Pharisee and how he feels rituals were all suspect. I simply wanted to do as God suggested, and I love announcing to me and the world how I love the Lord.
It was necessary at first to explain Judaism. God is not about our routines, God is about our spirit. So when pagans were told that God was about what they ate and circumcision we have to be told that is not so. In telling us this we are told that sin is nailed to the cross, that we are under grace not law, etc. These things are fundamental, but if they are read without the understanding of set God principles about what faith is (it includes doing) and how God's love works, it gets twisted up.
Our church has discovered that lots of our traditions came about when pagans first became Christian and they mixed some of what they knew in to God worship. We take the holidays they put in the church and some of the practice and stand firm that they are just fine, they were changed to only be of God. They are OK but we stand just as firm against any of the day to day routines that God suggested be made to reflect Him. Doesn't make sense to me.
I put up a mezuzah when I read and understood why God suggested it, and how it has been used these thousands of years. It has the words about my love for the Lord in a little box nailed to my front door post. My pastor saw it. He said I was becoming a Pharisee and how he feels rituals were all suspect. I simply wanted to do as God suggested, and I love announcing to me and the world how I love the Lord.
The first thing that would come to my mind if someone gave me this instruction would be, “that’s easier said than done,” and truly it is. It would be unethical, hypocritical, and I dare say, sanctimonious, to presume to teach what I have not done myself. It is never easy and some of my most earnest prayers were born of my wimpy heart begging God for a way out of having to take a stand and confront those other professing Christians with the sins they were practicing. I think the hardest time was speaking with the pastor’s wife about her seemingly uncontrollable need to gossip about the other church members to me.
No, it wasn’t easy or pleasant. No, we did not continue to be friends – she didn’t take it well. Yes, it usually spelled out the end of a friendship. Yes, it is always worth it. I am, by nature, one of those people who doesn’t like to make waves at all but I would have had a VERY hard time forgiving myself if I had knowingly refused to do the right thing, and thereby telling my Father in heaven that my friendship with another person was more important than being obedient to Him.
“Stay alert, stand firm in the faith, behave like a mentsh [good, reliable, moral, compassionate person], grow strong.”
1 Corinthians 16:13 (CJB)
No, it wasn’t easy or pleasant. No, we did not continue to be friends – she didn’t take it well. Yes, it usually spelled out the end of a friendship. Yes, it is always worth it. I am, by nature, one of those people who doesn’t like to make waves at all but I would have had a VERY hard time forgiving myself if I had knowingly refused to do the right thing, and thereby telling my Father in heaven that my friendship with another person was more important than being obedient to Him.
“Stay alert, stand firm in the faith, behave like a mentsh [good, reliable, moral, compassionate person], grow strong.”
1 Corinthians 16:13 (CJB)