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R
yes I am totally up for that discussion...I do have a habit if starting a subject(s) leaving a post...and not reading other posts...I admit that I should read more posts and yet for me there are so many choice I just end up starting a new thread instead just to get interaction...and sometimes I think I may jump into a thread I am not familiar with or that I will get in the middle of a debate and be caught in the middle...meaning two or more people are talking about something and I join in and happens that I am way off topic making me "caught in the middle of a debate I didn't understand to start with....
okay I'll start that thread on commandment beta....as this thread is a different subject.
okay I'll start that thread on commandment beta....as this thread is a different subject.
interesting here, as it goes with this thread, is that Jesus said this after He washed the disciples feet: that they should follow His example, doing as He did.
and what He did - was to lead them: in the same discussion, He says they have called Him master & lord, and rightly so. so following Him, we should lead others the same way He led. but in the context of this thing He told them, He led them by serving them: so always we lead others, by being servants ourselves, servants of the Most High, by being servants of all.
i was thinking perhaps here is the reconciliation of what respectfully was trying to get at - a sort of accountability or maybe better stated, ambassadorship, if you will - with what the general reaction here was, that we are wary of making ourselves out to be a "head" of others in any way, recognizing that humility is the better part, that we are called to consider ourselves lower than all. Christ Himself though, came and led us by setting aside His glory, and humbling Himself for our sake. so in the same way humbling ourselves (("that ye be of the same mind" - Phil. 2:5)) by example is a sign to others, that they should walk in the same way before God. bearing His name, we, as ambassadors, should strive toward His likeness in ourselves, which is leadership by submission to the will of the Father.
and what He did - was to lead them: in the same discussion, He says they have called Him master & lord, and rightly so. so following Him, we should lead others the same way He led. but in the context of this thing He told them, He led them by serving them: so always we lead others, by being servants ourselves, servants of the Most High, by being servants of all.
i was thinking perhaps here is the reconciliation of what respectfully was trying to get at - a sort of accountability or maybe better stated, ambassadorship, if you will - with what the general reaction here was, that we are wary of making ourselves out to be a "head" of others in any way, recognizing that humility is the better part, that we are called to consider ourselves lower than all. Christ Himself though, came and led us by setting aside His glory, and humbling Himself for our sake. so in the same way humbling ourselves (("that ye be of the same mind" - Phil. 2:5)) by example is a sign to others, that they should walk in the same way before God. bearing His name, we, as ambassadors, should strive toward His likeness in ourselves, which is leadership by submission to the will of the Father.
Friend, don't put yourself down too much, but it's good you have a sense of not always being right - wish more of us felt like that. Us humble ones are always 'drowned out by the the mighty voice of those who seem to know more....and we get discouraged from going on seeing it leads to unpleasant disagreement we don't want to get caught up in.
Posthuman followed up with good advice to always let Jesus be our example but is difficult for people who have not yet even found their 'starting-post/line. I suspect that all the disagreements , arguments and resulting discouragement among Christians is the lack of GODLY leadership from the bottom up/the beginning, which Christianity seems to have abandoned in favour of this ''freedom in Christ''. Don't get me wrong...there is freedom in Christ in the right Order !
Anyway, starting with the Commandments does not need a new thread as they have to do with 'training for leadership. Did not Jesus say HE kept His fathers Commandments ? were they detrimental to Him becoming our Redeemer and Saviour ?
Posthuman followed up with good advice to always let Jesus be our example but is difficult for people who have not yet even found their 'starting-post/line. I suspect that all the disagreements , arguments and resulting discouragement among Christians is the lack of GODLY leadership from the bottom up/the beginning, which Christianity seems to have abandoned in favour of this ''freedom in Christ''. Don't get me wrong...there is freedom in Christ in the right Order !
Anyway, starting with the Commandments does not need a new thread as they have to do with 'training for leadership. Did not Jesus say HE kept His fathers Commandments ? were they detrimental to Him becoming our Redeemer and Saviour ?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted. Matthew 23:5-12
Jesus leads as we follow Him, we don't see our footprints in sand.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted. Matthew 23:5-12
Jesus leads as we follow Him, we don't see our footprints in sand.
That is so true ! yet how many Christians want to LEARN from the beginning and 'walk with Jesus 24/7 ? Christianity has made a bad mistake by setting 'their own goal post....and not only that , this has opened the way for each to set THEIR own, thus causing strife and arguments...it should not be so.
Christians should speak with One voice instructed by One God !
Christians should speak with One voice instructed by One God !
"The student is not above the teacher, nor a servant above his master."...."What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs"....Anyone who loves their father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. Whoever does not take up their cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me."...."Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for My sake WILL FIND IT." (Matthew 10:24-39).
To be a leader, one must first have wisdom. Wisdom comes from our humility that begins to understand God thru Him possessing us, having the revelation that He is only Wise. Thus, God must be our Master, thru Jesus Christ that bestows on us His wisdom thru the Holy Spirit. There must be this chain of command always as a lifestyle; this is Righteousness. We only do good works for God by first "Sitting" in things already accomplished in Christ.
"In Him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of His will, in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, (Our volitional will also applied here) might be for the praise of His glory." (Ephesians 1:3-12).
Thus, any effectual outcome of man's leadership must always keep God in the front leading us, and always to wait on Him to call us, or as I like to call it - keeping the horse before the cart. Otherwise even our grandest moral attempts crash from lack of proper alignment and His timing. Being marked in Him thru the Holy Spirit, He guides us and empowers us, transforming us.
Yes, God calls us all to be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. Jesus goes on to announce His will for us is being properly aligned with Him, even to the point of being dead to the right to ourselves, so that His full power will be in us to be the salt and light of the world. The "how to lead" is not in doctrine first, but in the person of Jesus Christ first. Doctrine follows as He leads all men unto Himself:
"All authority in Heaven and on earth has been given to Me (setting the premise of our commissioned leadership with the call of the Holy Spirit). Therefore go and make disciples of all nations (Multiplying what He has done in us), baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (and now God works thru our good deeds (found in Christ) ...) teaching them to obey everything I commanded you. And surely I am with you always, (Again, the horse before the cart), to the very end of the age." (Matthew 28:16-20).
Thus, Leadership comes not from serving God, but from God serving man thru His humble obedient servants (His Children). We must never seek to persuade those who differ from us merely to think and act as we do. Our one aim must be to lead them closer to Him thru a discussion and discovery mentality. We are not working for outward correctness, or conformity to certain good things, but for a closer relationship to God Himself. The Lordship of Jesus Christ is the central point of Christianity. If, in truth, He is your Lord, and He is my Lord, then He Himself will adjust the other things, as we go to parent new believers in love toward love and good deeds.
To be a leader, one must first have wisdom. Wisdom comes from our humility that begins to understand God thru Him possessing us, having the revelation that He is only Wise. Thus, God must be our Master, thru Jesus Christ that bestows on us His wisdom thru the Holy Spirit. There must be this chain of command always as a lifestyle; this is Righteousness. We only do good works for God by first "Sitting" in things already accomplished in Christ.
"In Him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of His will, in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, (Our volitional will also applied here) might be for the praise of His glory." (Ephesians 1:3-12).
Thus, any effectual outcome of man's leadership must always keep God in the front leading us, and always to wait on Him to call us, or as I like to call it - keeping the horse before the cart. Otherwise even our grandest moral attempts crash from lack of proper alignment and His timing. Being marked in Him thru the Holy Spirit, He guides us and empowers us, transforming us.
Yes, God calls us all to be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. Jesus goes on to announce His will for us is being properly aligned with Him, even to the point of being dead to the right to ourselves, so that His full power will be in us to be the salt and light of the world. The "how to lead" is not in doctrine first, but in the person of Jesus Christ first. Doctrine follows as He leads all men unto Himself:
"All authority in Heaven and on earth has been given to Me (setting the premise of our commissioned leadership with the call of the Holy Spirit). Therefore go and make disciples of all nations (Multiplying what He has done in us), baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (and now God works thru our good deeds (found in Christ) ...) teaching them to obey everything I commanded you. And surely I am with you always, (Again, the horse before the cart), to the very end of the age." (Matthew 28:16-20).
Thus, Leadership comes not from serving God, but from God serving man thru His humble obedient servants (His Children). We must never seek to persuade those who differ from us merely to think and act as we do. Our one aim must be to lead them closer to Him thru a discussion and discovery mentality. We are not working for outward correctness, or conformity to certain good things, but for a closer relationship to God Himself. The Lordship of Jesus Christ is the central point of Christianity. If, in truth, He is your Lord, and He is my Lord, then He Himself will adjust the other things, as we go to parent new believers in love toward love and good deeds.
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R
In truth Jesus was more than a leader...He is the Son of the Living God...He is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords
even as we are leader...we have not the same authority as God...we are servents of God ...and in our leadership we should ask men to follow or serve us... in our leadership...if we learn to do more than lead ourselves in the righteous path....is to get men and woman to serve God...worship and serve and pray to Jesus...not ourselves
there is a misunderstanding between the Royalty and Leadership of God ...Jesus...and yes the Holy Spirit of which Jesus said would come after he ascended to heaven.... yes...We worship His Majesty...the Lord God Almighty
we may be leaders..but we lead in vein if we do not know our purpose...to save the lost...to do the will of God....yes in all of our hearts is a strength we need to find....
Greater is He that is in me than He that is in the world
who is that He?
even as we are leader...we have not the same authority as God...we are servents of God ...and in our leadership we should ask men to follow or serve us... in our leadership...if we learn to do more than lead ourselves in the righteous path....is to get men and woman to serve God...worship and serve and pray to Jesus...not ourselves
there is a misunderstanding between the Royalty and Leadership of God ...Jesus...and yes the Holy Spirit of which Jesus said would come after he ascended to heaven.... yes...We worship His Majesty...the Lord God Almighty
we may be leaders..but we lead in vein if we do not know our purpose...to save the lost...to do the will of God....yes in all of our hearts is a strength we need to find....
Greater is He that is in me than He that is in the world
who is that He?
Would you say Christ is with those who walk with Him 24/7 or just any who choose to follow Him on their own terms ? Large crowds followed Him for their own reasons, but were any of them Disciples willing to learn from Him ? so the question is, do we consider ourselves already qualified and perfected to lead others - or have we still to learn obedience ourselves ? Heb 5v8,9.
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Respectfully, I think the verse you are making reference to is in Revelation 5:10 YOU made them a kingdom (other manuscripts read "them kings") and priests to our GOD and they will reign on earth. And in Revelation 1:6 and made us a kingdom, priests to HIS GOD and FATHER (other manuscripts read kings and priests). Hope I was able to help.
Revelation 1
5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who 2 loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood,
6 and has made us 3 kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him [be] glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who 2 loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood,
6 and has made us 3 kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him [be] glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
No, respectfully's message has not been turned against him - just put in the right order. He holds up Jesus as our example which is right and good !!! but then respect seems to focus more on how WE perform...which is not good.
To be the 'head a Christian has to GROW up into it Eph 4v15, which takes time, study, experience and not least obedience - something Christians have not learnt yet....or do you think they already follow their Master 24/7 ? that is where true discipleship comes in. To be a leader we first learn to be led, starting with obedience when drawn to Christ. Just to be one of the following crowd lacks closeness.
Respectfully has good ideas but should have more 'staying-power and not give up so quickly...it does not bode well for leadership that seems important to him.
To be the 'head a Christian has to GROW up into it Eph 4v15, which takes time, study, experience and not least obedience - something Christians have not learnt yet....or do you think they already follow their Master 24/7 ? that is where true discipleship comes in. To be a leader we first learn to be led, starting with obedience when drawn to Christ. Just to be one of the following crowd lacks closeness.
Respectfully has good ideas but should have more 'staying-power and not give up so quickly...it does not bode well for leadership that seems important to him.
Who is the the leaders of his Kingdom? and What are they doing in the wicked World? They are ambassadors for Christ with the ministry of reconciliation KJV2Corinthians5;18-21 18.And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19.To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the World unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the world of reconciliation. 20. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us; we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21.For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew not sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.