What's the difference between the enemy and karma?

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crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#41
Nov 24, 2012
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#41
shotgunner said:
I've always saw Job as opening the door to Satan by his fear. We have to remember what it means for God to call us upright and perfect. All Christians are upright and perfect before God, but not because they never do anything wrong or never have Satan attack us. We are upright because of our faith in our covenant. I see Job as having been in the same situation. He was upright before God because he upheld whatever covenant he had with God. When Satan discussed Job with God, all God said was behold , he is in your hand. All behold means is look and see.
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Scripture never says Job opened the door to satan because of fear...you are putting your own twist on Scripture.

Job 2:1-7 KJV[1] Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord , and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord . [2] And the Lord said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the Lord , and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. [3] And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause. [4] And Satan answered the Lord , and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life. [5] But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face. [6] And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life. [7] So went Satan forth from the presence of the Lord , and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
 
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shotgunner

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#42
#42
crossnote said:
Scripture never says Job opened the door to satan because of fear...you are putting your own twist on Scripture.

Job 2:1-7 KJV[1] Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord , and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord . [2] And the Lord said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the Lord , and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. [3] And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause. [4] And Satan answered the Lord , and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life. [5] But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face. [6] And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life. [7] So went Satan forth from the presence of the Lord , and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
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Yea, I know what Job says, I've read it several times. Scripture doesn't say that God and Satan are making a deal together as many seem to want to read into it. All God did was tell Satan the truth. All God said was "behold he is in your hand". Behold doesn't mean anything except look and see.

Don't you think there is a reason that the book of Job tells us about Job continually making sacrifices for his children because they might have sinned? Don't you think there is a reason the scripture tells us that when Job's children were killed Job says,"The thing I greatly feared is come upon me." It's not just filler to the story. It's there for us to see what happened to Job and the reasons.
 
crossnote

crossnote

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#43
Nov 24, 2012
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#43
shotgunner said:
Yea, I know what Job says, I've read it several times. Scripture doesn't say that God and Satan are making a deal together as many seem to want to read into it. All God did was tell Satan the truth. All God said was "behold he is in your hand". Behold doesn't mean anything except look and see.

Don't you think there is a reason that the book of Job tells us about Job continually making sacrifices for his children because they might have sinned? Don't you think there is a reason the scripture tells us that when Job's children were killed Job says,"The thing I greatly feared is come upon me." It's not just filler to the story. It's there for us to see what happened to Job and the reasons.
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Satan desired to see Job's demise. God gave satan the ok, but only so far. Satan cannot do anything other than what God allows.
This is my last post with you on this topic of Job since this is getting off topic of the OP.
 
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shotgunner

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#44
#44
crossnote said:
Satan desired to see Job's demise. God gave satan the ok, but only so far. Satan cannot do anything other than what God allows.
This is my last post with you on this topic of Job since this is getting off topic of the OP.
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You can see it any way you want but I would prefer to interpret it so that it agrees with God's character and actions in every other scripture. Jesus called Satan a liar, thief, and murderer. I don't see God teaming up with Satan to torment an innocent guy just to see what he will do. That's not the character of my God.


As far as what God allows, God never wanted sin and all it's consequences loose in the earth in the first place. I'm sure God knew Adam would sin and knew the result and the solution all along but God told him not to do it. God gives us free will. Even under the old covenant with it's blessing and curse God tells us to choose life. God tells us that his plan for us is good and not evil. God allows evil because we choose evil. When the time of our choice is over, evil will cease to exist.
 
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Ariel82

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#45
#45
shotgunner said:
Yea, I know what Job says, I've read it several times. Scripture doesn't say that God and Satan are making a deal together as many seem to want to read into it. All God did was tell Satan the truth. All God said was "behold he is in your hand". Behold doesn't mean anything except look and see.

Don't you think there is a reason that the book of Job tells us about Job continually making sacrifices for his children because they might have sinned? Don't you think there is a reason the scripture tells us that when Job's children were killed Job says,"The thing I greatly feared is come upon me." It's not just filler to the story. It's there for us to see what happened to Job and the reasons.
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You sound like eliphaz and God says eliphaz was wrong.

But it's hard to see past the health and wealth deception

The main idea is that people sick or poor deserve it for their unbelief or hidden sin.it is false.

It ties back to the mistaken belief of "karma" or the wiccan belief of threefold blessings and curses.

Someone asked Jesus why a man was born blind...his son or his parents?

What sin can an unborn baby commit?

Buddhist believe you have a one in a million chance of being born in the upper three realms. Most of the time you are condemned to hell, hungry ghost or animal realms. Even of the upper three the diva or small God's are not good because there is not enough suffering for you to care to escape the cycle of rebirth and will most likely end in hell. Their solution is a works based salvation based on laws similar to the ones found in the old testament to have people,lead a morally upright life.

However both buddhism and Judaism lack a major saving grace....Christ redeeming work on,the cross.

Many Christians don't understand the importance of how it,is that God saves not our own works. So they don't see the difference. People still try and work to,get to heaven and in doing so miss the entire gospel message.
 
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shotgunner

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#46
#46
"But it's hard to see past the health and wealth deception

The main idea is that people sick or poor deserve it for their unbelief or hidden sin.it is false."

That's an incredible poor and frankly insulting view. You use health and wealth to denigrate a group of believers and at the same time label them as if they have no compassion. You have no idea what my background is but want to label me as something you apparently despise simply because I choose to believe that God is good and not in league with Satan.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#47
#47
I don't despise them but pray they will break free of the lies and deception,
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#48
#48
It's not their lack of compassion but that many proclaim how righteous and healthy they are.

Do you get sick?

Do you not believe in the health and wealth doctrine?

Is God unable to control Satan?

Your statement implies God is just stating the facts...Job was already in Satan's hands before the conversation.

However that is not the case. God put a hedge around Job. He was wealthy, prosperous and of good health.

Satan said why wouldn't he praise God? But take away his wealth and he will curse you.

Job did not curse God.

Then Satan went again and said take his health and he will curse you.

But Job did not.

He did not sin until his three friends whispered Satan's lies in his ear about how he deserved his suffering.

Did Jesus deserve to suffer and die on the cross?

No, neither did Job but God used both men to His own purpose.one to teach Satan a lesson and another to redeem mankind of our sins.

Job hope was not in his good works. In chapter 19 he states that his Redeemer lives and will walk on the earth.

Job looked to Christ for His salvation
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#49
Aug 28, 2012
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#49
Shot gunner your view of Jobs story is way way off, you said you believe your view because it goes with God's character? God is love and your view of who God is isn't love
 
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NoRedemptionBeyondRepair

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#50
#50
Guys please stop :(
Let opinions be opinions and take things with a grain of salt. Everyone here is striving to serve Jesus right? Then do that but don't go back and forth antagonizing each other's opinions to get the advantage on who is right. Comparing opinions is great but let it be just that.
 
Blain

Blain

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#51
Aug 28, 2012
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#51
NoRedemptionBeyondRepair said:
Guys please stop :(
Let opinions be opinions and take things with a grain of salt. Everyone here is striving to serve Jesus right? Then do that but don't go back and forth antagonizing each other's opinions to get the advantage on who is right. Comparing opinions is great but let it be just that.
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This isn't a matter of who is right it's a matter of what is true in the bible, sometimes even the wisest and most insightful of us need correction in understanding scripture that is all I was offering whether he attempts to learn or not is his choice
 
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NoRedemptionBeyondRepair

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#52
#52
Blain said:
This isn't a matter of who is right it's a matter of what is true in the bible, sometimes even the wisest and most insightful of us need correction in understanding scripture that is all I was offering whether he attempts to learn or not is his choice
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Exactly my point. Who are you to say shotguns views isn't the "correct" truth of the bible? Everyone who has an opinion is going to believe their view is the correct one. But it's arrogant to say your view of it is the correct view. So take each other's opinions with a grain of salt and let God work inside of you of what's the "truth".
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#53
Aug 28, 2012
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#53
NoRedemptionBeyondRepair said:
Exactly my point. Who are you to say shotguns views isn't the "correct" truth of the bible? Everyone who has an opinion is going to believe their view is the correct one. But it's arrogant to say your view of it is the correct view. So take each other's opinions with a grain of salt and let God work inside of you of what's the "truth".
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Because I am able to discern truth from false and because I know who God is I know his nature. yes everyone has an opinion of what scriptures mean but only God reveals what it truly means, the holy spirit teaches us what the scriptures are saying not what we think they say or what we believe they say
 
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NoRedemptionBeyondRepair

Guest
#54
#54
Blain said:
Because I am able to discern truth from false and because I know who God is I know his nature. yes everyone has an opinion of what scriptures mean but only God reveals what it truly means, the holy spirit teaches us what the scriptures are saying not what we think they say or what we believe they say
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1Co 8:2
any man thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#55
Nov 24, 2012
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#55
We must go beyond opinions if the Scriptures are truly God's Word, otherwise what are any of us doing here...sharing opinions?
There are true interpretations and their are false ones. It is the duty of a Christian to ascertain God's intention about a passage when He inspired that portion of Scripture.

We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
(2Pe 1:19-21)

If this is all a matter of one's opinion, then I'd have no interest in pitching in another opinion.
 
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pottersclay

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#56
#56
My opinion is that that is your opinion based on other opinions expressed here. But that's just my opinion. Lol
 
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didymos

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#57
#57
NoRedemptionBeyondRepair said:
Exactly my point. Who are you to say shotguns views isn't the "correct" truth of the bible? Everyone who has an opinion is going to believe their view is the correct one. But it's arrogant to say your view of it is the correct view. So take each other's opinions with a grain of salt and let God work inside of you of what's the "truth".
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NoRedemptionBeyondRepair said:
1Co 8:2
any man thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know.
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I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;
she must be quiet. (1 Tim 2:12 / NIV)

(See, anyone can quote scripture out of contect to prove their point)

 
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