When you don't know you don't believe!

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
B

bikerchaz

Guest
#1
All my life I was bought up as a Christadelphian, even as a child through to being a teenager I went to the meetings at least three times a week, plus youth group on Fridays, special meetings once a month or so which would take up the whole weekend (May be 3 free hours on Saturday afternoon to chat with any friends that had turned up).
I went on special weekends every year (at least four times a year) to different places within the UK where marathon lectures would commence starting Friday night and finishing Sunday afternoon so you could get home by Sunday evening to be ready for school or work the next day. We had special reading plans which took you through the old testament once a year and the new testament twice. As I grew I was invited to different classes which prepared me for taking services, giving exhortations (the word), being door greeters, and anything to do with the day to day running and witnessing of the church.
Within this time I came across other Christians who preached in open air services, these occasions usually ended up in there being a shouting match, or a bible knowledge contest which did nothing for the word of God only for those involved, It only gave good street theatre for those watching who witnessed two groups of people "having a go at each other".
I always felt uncomfortable when these confrontations happened, and in the back of my mind would be Paul's words when he was in prison about how although some preached Jesus to get one over on him, at least Christ was preached.
I have also been on the receiving end of a public tirade of abuse calling me the devil incarnate and telling me how wrong I was and how I twisted the bible words to meet my own ends.
Throughout all of this, and through my growing up I was not impressed with the church or with any other church for that matter. Then one day a young man gave me a big hug, and gave me a tract. I never saw him again but that tract and hug started questions with in me that had been just under my skin for most of my life, the quotation "Many are called but few are chosen" took me over. The holy Spirit, who I firmly believed died out with the apostles was suddenly bought into the open.
I knew the scriptures, inside out back to front and upside down but there was something stopping me from seeing. Of course if you don't believe in the Holy Spirit you don't believe in satan.
The reason for this thread is because I see on this site a lot of 'I am right and you are wrong', there are posts about this and that which are purposely put up to challenge the beliefs of other members. There are members who start a thread in this bible discussion forum with the sole intention of changing those who are wrong and to firmly put them right.
Please just think a moment and put yourself in the position of those people, the ones Christ died for, the ones who are stinking (a smouldering flax) and making you turn your nose up at them.
Put yourself in the position of someone completely wrong; it is all they know, all they have been told, they don't know how to look at a bible let alone find out what it says about something and as a Christian, to you, they are useless (a broken reed).
Trying to put them or anyone right is not our job. IT IS NOT OUR JOB! I shall tell you why, it is because we can not give them the Holy Spirit. When we correct them do they not do what we do when someone corrects us? We defend ourselves, It does not matter who what where or why, when we are told we are wrong we defend what we know because it is all we know.
We do know what our Job is though, our Job is to love them, to show through our words and actions that it does not matter where they are, we love them. In loving someone who is stinking or broken we show a better way, we can't do this without the Holy Spirit, and loving them with the help of the Spirit of God we pray for them, lifting them up to God and letting Him do His work (HIS JOB) within them, bringing them to a place where they can be made whole, so a 'smouldering flax' can BURST INTO FLAME! And a broken reed can MEASURE A TRUE SPAN WIDTH.
I do see a lot of enquiry on CC from those who read what is put and it conflicts with what they think they know. We are to answer their concerns prayerfully, which we do for the most part, but there is a tendency to start pulling their own belief system to pieces, which far from bringing them closer to God pushes them away. I have purposely not mentioned any particular thread or individual poster. I want to see heaven full and hell empty as we all do, so lets all do our Job and let Jesus do His.
God bless.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,869
9,601
113
#2
Very long wall of text. Couldn't read it, didn't even try to cuz my eyes kept crossing. :( And what is a christadelphian? :confused:
 

Pilkington

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2015
640
99
28
#3
I think on many levels you are right. Many of the arguements/debates on here are about secondary issues which should not divide Christians. It would be so much better if we could just beg to differ.

I think you are right about our job being to love through our words and actions, praying for them and allowing the Holy Spirit to work in their hearts. It is possible to win the arguement but for them to change their stance.
 
B

bikerchaz

Guest
#4
Very long wall of text. Couldn't read it, didn't even try to cuz my eyes kept crossing. :( And what is a christadelphian? :confused:
I am sorry, I didn't mean to make cross eyed LOL, the word Christadelphian is derived from the Greek and means, 'brothers in Christ'
I am not very good at making writing look interesting and I do get carried away with things, I will try better, may be I should add some colour like you,
God bless.
 

ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,171
91
48
#5
Trying to put them or anyone right is not our job. IT IS NOT OUR JOB! I shall tell you why, it is because we can not give them the Holy Spirit. When we correct them do they not do what we do when someone corrects us? We defend ourselves, It does not matter who what where or why, when we are told we are wrong we defend what we know because it is all we know.
We do know what our Job is though, our Job is to love them, to show through our words and actions that it does not matter where they are, we love them. In loving someone who is stinking or broken we show a better way, we can't do this without the Holy Spirit, and loving them with the help of the Spirit of God we pray for them, lifting them up to God and letting Him do His work (HIS JOB) within them, bringing them to a place where they can be made whole, so a 'smouldering flax' can BURST INTO FLAME! And a broken reed can MEASURE A TRUE SPAN WIDTH.
Speaking for myself, I have been corrected a thousand times since I joined this site. I was in major error and even heretical in my beliefs. I'm more than grateful for the corrections, many of which were extremely harsh. I have humiliated myself, been humiliated by others, been spoken to harshly, been forced to face myself, been forced to seek out answers for myself, and been pitted against the truth of scripture many times.

Most people will see all of this as a bad thing. Not me. This is what I needed. Most of the people who did this did not hate me, but loved me. They treated me how I expect people who love me to treat me and that is calling out my error and falsehood and opening me up so the light could get in and expose me. This was essential for my coming to Christ and surrendering in full. Without it I would still be lost amidst an ocean of error and heresy.

With that being said, it is not our job to do anything but speak the truth revealed to us by the Holy Spirit in our walk with God as we are conformed to the image of Christ. If this is offensive to anyone, we will not apologize. Many here are not necessarily defending themselves but defending the faith laid out by Jesus and the Apostles as we are commanded to do without fear and without compromising to please men, but rather uncompromising and pleasing to God.

Now my question to you is, would the loving thing to do be to hide the truth from them because it offends them, or speak it plainly so they may have a chance of hearing the Word of God and coming to an understanding of it? Is it unloving to shut away the truth from those who come here searching but are rather shown lies? There are a lot of people who come here confused about their faith and are escaping the modern heresies that have plagued the church over the past couple hundred years. These people benefit from seeing others speaking the truth plainly without sugar coating it and watching them stand up to the aberrant doctrines that have infiltrated the church.

Now, I am not a preacher, but we are all commanded plainly to speak the truth. I agree that we love them, pray for them, and it is the work of the Holy Spirit to bring them to understanding. That doesn't mean we sit back and hope only. We can't compromise truth for the sake of saving face. And those who don't know Christ can't come to faith of their own without hearing the truth.

Romans 10
[SUP]14 [/SUP]How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard?[SUP][c][/SUP] And how are they to hear without someone preaching? [SUP]15 [/SUP]And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” [SUP]16 [/SUP]But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” [SUP]17 [/SUP]So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

Jude
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 4
[SUP]9 [/SUP](In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth?[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]10 [/SUP]He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.) [SUP]11 [/SUP]And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds[SUP][c][/SUP] and teachers,[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]12 [/SUP]to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, [SUP]13 [/SUP]until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood,[SUP][e][/SUP] to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, [SUP]14 [/SUP]so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.[SUP]15 [/SUP]Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, [SUP]16 [/SUP]from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.

---
The divisions in the body come from those who pervert the truth and not those grounded in it.

Jude
[SUP]17 [/SUP]But you must remember, beloved, the predictions of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]18 [/SUP]They[SUP][f][/SUP] said to you, “In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions.” [SUP]19 [/SUP]It is these who cause divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit. [SUP]20 [/SUP]But you, beloved, building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, [SUP]21 [/SUP]keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life. [SUP]22 [/SUP]And have mercy on those who doubt; [SUP]23 [/SUP]save others by snatching them out of the fire; to others show mercy with fear, hating even the garment[SUP][g][/SUP] stained by the flesh.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,869
9,601
113
#6
I am sorry, I didn't mean to make cross eyed LOL, the word Christadelphian is derived from the Greek and means, 'brothers in Christ'
I am not very good at making writing look interesting and I do get carried away with things, I will try better, may be I should add some colour like you,
God bless.

Nah lol.. I have bad eyes anyway, but please I beg you, use paragraphs next time. :) They make long posts sooo much easier to read. :)
 
M

Miri

Guest
#7
Many consider the organisation to be a cult, it is a religion of do
your best and hope it is good enough.
Having said that they are almost there, just miss guided. Many start off
as christadelphians then find true salvation later.

I agree with one point, it's not a good witness for people to argue and be
abusive with each other, there are ways of debating things in a loving manner.


http://www.christadelphia.org/belief.them


[SIZE=-1]The Christadelphians are a world-wide community of Bible students whose fellowship
is based on a common understanding of the Scriptures. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Our name comes from Colossians 1:2: "to the saints and faithful brethren in Christ
which are at Colosse...". In the original Greek, this phrase is "delphos en Christos",
which was reordered into "Christadelphian".[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]
We have no central organization telling us what to do and believe. Neither are we some
fringe group following a charismatic leader or some internal text. Rather, we are tied together
everywhere by our zeal for reading God's Holy scriptures and our understanding of His
plan and purpose as He has revealed to everyone therein.

[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]The Christadelphians believe that Jesus the Christ is the son of God, who came to fulfill the
Old Testament promises and covenants of God with mankind, primarily
the covenants with Eve, Abraham and David.

[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]We believe that Jesus is a man, who was tried and tempted as we are, yet who resisted sin even
till death. Three days later, the only true God, the Father raised him to eternal life, after which
Christ ascended to his Father's side to await the appointed time of his return.

[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]The Christadelphians embrace the hope of resurrection to eternal life at the return of Christ.
We believe that this will take place soon. At that time the kingdom of God will be established
from Jerusalem, growing to encompass the whole world, offering freedom, hope and salvation
to all mankind. The people of Israel, as the literal descendants of Abraham, will have a special
place in this kingdom.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]The Christadelphians believe that salvation is attained through faith in Christ. It is through
faith that we are baptized into Christ for forgiveness of sins, and thereby participate in the
promises to Abraham: to inherit the earth forever.

[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Doctrinally, the Christadelphians are unique in Christendom in our
understanding of the nature of Christ, and the way in which we are
redeemed by his death. We reject as unbiblical the idea that Christ
could die as a replacement sacrifice for us, thus covering all our sins
forever with that one act. Certainly it is through his sacrifice that
we may be forgiven, but only if we walk the path of self-denial that
he marked out for us.


[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]If you wish to know more about what we believe and preach, a detailed Statement of Faith
is online. We also have a compiled list of the Commandments of Christ. You can also get
in touch through e-mail, and we'll happily send you some material on any of the above topics.[/SIZE]




Christadelphian Beliefs and Practices

Jesus Christ - Jesus Christ is a man, Christadelphians say, not God.

He was the Son of God and salvation requires acceptance of Christ as Lord
and Savior. Christadelphians believe that since Jesus died, he cannot
be God, because God cannot die.

Satan - Christadelphians reject the doctrine of Satan as the source of evil.
They believe God is the source of both good and evil (Isaiah 45:5-7).

Trinity - The Trinity is unbiblical, according to Christadelphian beliefs.
God is one and does not exist in three Persons.

Christadelphian Practices

Sacraments - Baptism is a requirement for salvation, Christadelphians believe.
Members are baptized through immersion, at an age of accountability, and
have a pre-baptism interview about the sacrament. Communion, in the form
of bread and wine, is shared at the Sunday Memorial Service.



 
M

Miri

Guest
#8
Hi biker I assume you are no longer part of the christiadelphian movement from
your comments. :) I've never heard one yet speak of the Holy Spirit and Satan
aa being real.

I bet you have an interesting testimony.
 
B

bikerchaz

Guest
#9
Now my question to you is, would the loving thing to do be to hide the truth from them because it offends them, or speak it plainly so they may have a chance of hearing the Word of God and coming to an understanding of it? Is it unloving to shut away the truth from those who come here searching but are rather shown lies? There are a lot of people who come here confused about their faith and are escaping the modern heresies that have plagued the church over the past couple hundred years. These people benefit from seeing others speaking the truth plainly without sugar coating it and watching them stand up to the aberrant doctrines that have infiltrated the church.
.
If someone were to ask me I would tell whoever what I know depending on what they asked. To those who do not know anything or who have never heard the good news about being able to have a direct relationship with the Father creator God, then that 'good news' should be preached, but to those whose belief systems we know are wrong we do have a responsibility to show a correct way, my concern is how we go about it, and the fact there are those who would make a big thing about doing it.

Silent loving is not the best way, as your post states. We are told to always be ready to answer. We do, however all have different gifts, and gifts that the Spirit gives us, and as people, we are are different so we all make up the body of Christ by who we are and how we do.

I have been led to understand that in looking at the faults of others, I take my eye from the goal, in making what others do wrong by my own standards, I trip over the plank I suddenly find sticking out of my eye. It hurts the Spirit inside me when I see conflict for conflicts sake, and I do see it, and I don't keep quiet in church as on here in CC.

Those without the Spirit of God can not understand what we have when we live in harmony with each other and do not bicker, your last quote reflects that "It is these who cause divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit." It also says about 'keeping yourselves in love' and having 'mercy on those who doubt', which I feel you would agree that harsh words are not merciful, and correction without love tends towards one-upmanship.

Thank you for your comment, it did get me thinking.
God bless
 

ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,171
91
48
#10
Those without the Spirit of God can not understand what we have when we live in harmony with each other and do not bicker, your last quote reflects that "It is these who cause divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit." It also says about 'keeping yourselves in love' and having 'mercy on those who doubt', which I feel you would agree that harsh words are not merciful, and correction without love tends towards one-upmanship.

Thank you for your comment, it did get me thinking.
God bless
I somewhat agree. We also know that:

Proverbs 27
5 Better is open rebuke than hidden love.
6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend; profuse are the kisses of an enemy.

There is a fine line I think, but many are quick to call someone a "hater" when their intent is pure and grounded in truth. I also think it is our job (every Christian), to stand up to blatant heresy if we are equipped enough to do so. This also comes off as "hateful" to a lot of people when it is quite the opposite.

In an open forum like this there is going to be heated debates. There have been a lot of people lately who deny that doctrine is even important and that we are all Christians simply because we all claim to be. I think this is part of the problem. We aren't all Christians and sound doctrine is vital. So the question is posed, "Can't we all just get along?" and the answer to that is no.

When something is being pushed heavily, such as prosperity gospel or word-faith doctrine, it should fill most Christians with no small amount of indignation and prompt them to combat it. I don't mean with underhanded personal attacks, but with the presentation of proper doctrine in opposition to the heresies being perpetuated. Those who stand up to it, in love, but forcefully and boldly defending what is known to be true by any Spirit filled Christian, are then called names and their person attacked rather than the truth they are presenting.

I think most of us (myself included at times) are improperly defining love and hate and other critical terms that are necessary to understand. So without a proper understanding of the terms and virtues we are claiming to uphold, chaos ensues.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#11
The problem as I see it is that people have certain beliefs about scriptures and if someone else doesn't agree with that ..then they are heretical and leading people away from the Lord which in most cases is complete foolishness.

For example....There are some that believe the manifestations of the Holy Spirit are for to day and some believe they are not....so is it "proper" for one group to call the other heretical because they believe differently on some of these points?...of course not...to both groups they could say of each other that it is heresy what they are saying ... but we should just present our case and leave it with the Lord.

I agree we should use scripture and not get into name calling..( I have seen people called they are of the devil, heretics, greasy gracists, satanic, depraved, reprobates, liars, living lives full of sinning, false teachers..etc ) Many times these differences of views on scripture gets turned into a forum to slander people openly in the name of "defending the faith" which is not godly in my opinion.

Let's respect others and love each other and expect the good in each other. Love always thinks no evil. And all of us are wrong in areas and so love covers a multitude of sins and whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Most times we should just give the scripture out and leave it in the Lord's hands and allow the Holy Spirit to teach us what each of us need at the time we are at in our lives.

It is ok to agree to disagree and to let the bond of love be our way of living. We all look through a glass darkly but when we see Him we will know all things even as we are known now by Him.
 
Last edited:
Jan 27, 2013
4,769
18
0
#12
i have took this from miri post.

Doctrinally, the Christadelphians are unique in Christendom in our
understanding of the nature of Christ, and the way in which we are
redeemed by his death. We reject as unbiblical the idea that Christ
could die as a replacement sacrifice for us, thus covering all our sins
forever with that one act. Certainly it is through his sacrifice that
we may be forgiven, but only if we walk the path of self-denial that
he marked out for us.

there was always, a get out plan for sin.
the jewish people at, the time of jesus, took animals to the temple for forgivness.( up to 70ad ).

so the christian jewish, would all be connected to the law of moses, and that would mean the full law, and that would need a temple of stone.

even john the baptist , came with a get out plan for sin, oral. or water. (yet this led to a split, in a jewish religion system .( to keep it short) and then they, put jesus on the cross, because god had gave them a law, this law, never brought eternal life, but land and people government.

if the punishment of sin is death, so even repentance or animal to the temple. gave humans the faith to carry on.( break one sin you break them all. )



there was never, a get out plan, for death, in place, till jesus was back in heaven. ie how could there be eternal life, if there was never, someone that has been raised from the dead.

so in simple terms, there is a god, and death is not the end. so how can man save, them selfs,

ask, seek, knock, then the door might open.





 
B

bikerchaz

Guest
#13
Hi biker I assume you are no longer part of the christiadelphian movement from
your comments. :) I've never heard one yet speak of the Holy Spirit and Satan
aa being real.

I bet you have an interesting testimony.
Hi Miri, I remember it all to well really, the bible is the point of it all, to most of them. I still seem to picture it like a spiders web, no matter how you look at it it always remains the same. Looking at the bible from the side gives you the same view as from the front or the back, top or bottom, it was /is quite beautiful, a 4D web, but now it is not the be all and end all, spending hours and hours pouring over scripture for the sake of it, holds no interest for me now. Even on here I try not to use quotes with chapter and verse, I find it grates on me some what.

I put a little of the start of what happened to me in this thread, and I have written a testimony on CC, but even that does not do it service.

The biggest miss-direction that satan has deluded them (Christadelphians) with is there is no more Holy Spirit and that the adversary is just a spiritual comment within scriptures history. Then there is the 'divinity' of Jesus and the fact He came down from heaven opposed to Jesus being created in Mary's womb and remaining as a man while in heaven waiting for God to start his kingdom. It is amazing what you can make scripture say when you know it well enough, it is also amazing what you can ignore when it doesn't fit what you want to make it say, which is why I think they study it so much, trying to make things fit that don't quite fit.

I once described the experience of being one, "like climbing to the top of a greased pole every Sunday, and seeing how far you could jump towards the next pole next Sunday. After the service of bread and wine, and with and through thorough self examination then being cleansed from sin, you tried to stay sinless for another week until you went through the process again (the greased pole next Sunday) and became clean again".

But now I know Jesus, He is my God! I know of satan, and try my best not to give it any credence (it gets enough of that without my help, 'it' being a derogatory term) I also know I have the Holy Spirit and He is leading me down new paths of knowledge and enlightenment every day, and I could no longer live without Him than poke my own eye out.
 
B

bikerchaz

Guest
#14
i have took this from miri post.

Doctrinally, the Christadelphians are unique in Christendom in our
understanding of the nature of Christ, and the way in which we are
redeemed by his death. We reject as unbiblical the idea that Christ
could die as a replacement sacrifice for us, thus covering all our sins
forever with that one act. Certainly it is through his sacrifice that
we may be forgiven, but only if we walk the path of self-denial that
he marked out for us.

there was always, a get out plan for sin.
the jewish people at, the time of jesus, took animals to the temple for forgivness.( up to 70ad ).

so the christian jewish, would all be connected to the law of moses, and that would mean the full law, and that would need a temple of stone.

even john the baptist , came with a get out plan for sin, oral. or water. (yet this led to a split, in a jewish religion system .( to keep it short) and then they, put jesus on the cross, because god had gave them a law, this law, never brought eternal life, but land and people government.

if the punishment of sin is death, so even repentance or animal to the temple. gave humans the faith to carry on.( break one sin you break them all. )



there was never, a get out plan, for death, in place, till jesus was back in heaven. ie how could there be eternal life, if there was never, someone that has been raised from the dead.

so in simple terms, there is a god, and death is not the end. so how can man save, them selfs,

ask, seek, knock, then the door might open.





I agree except for the second to last word, "might", Mat 7 v7 uses the word will instead, three times, isn't God wonderful? I remember something about a 'three fold cord not being able to be broken'.
Our God loves us to look and seek for Him, He loves to hear us shout DADDY! and play at His feet knowing if any thing happens He is right there. Praise Him!
 
M

Miri

Guest
#15
Hi Miri, I remember it all to well really, the bible is the point of it all, to most of them. I still seem to picture it like a spiders web, no matter how you look at it it always remains the same. Looking at the bible from the side gives you the same view as from the front or the back, top or bottom, it was /is quite beautiful, a 4D web, but now it is not the be all and end all, spending hours and hours pouring over scripture for the sake of it, holds no interest for me now. Even on here I try not to use quotes with chapter and verse, I find it grates on me some what.

I put a little of the start of what happened to me in this thread, and I have written a testimony on CC, but even that does not do it service.

The biggest miss-direction that satan has deluded them (Christadelphians) with is there is no more Holy Spirit and that the adversary is just a spiritual comment within scriptures history. Then there is the 'divinity' of Jesus and the fact He came down from heaven opposed to Jesus being created in Mary's womb and remaining as a man while in heaven waiting for God to start his kingdom. It is amazing what you can make scripture say when you know it well enough, it is also amazing what you can ignore when it doesn't fit what you want to make it say, which is why I think they study it so much, trying to make things fit that don't quite fit.

I once described the experience of being one, "like climbing to the top of a greased pole every Sunday, and seeing how far you could jump towards the next pole next Sunday. After the service of bread and wine, and with and through thorough self examination then being cleansed from sin, you tried to stay sinless for another week until you went through the process again (the greased pole next Sunday) and became clean again".

But now I know Jesus, He is my God! I know of satan, and try my best not to give it any credence (it gets enough of that without my help, 'it' being a derogatory term) I also know I have the Holy Spirit and He is leading me down new paths of knowledge and enlightenment every day, and I could no longer live without Him than poke my own eye out.

There is one positive though, many in the christadelphian movement study
God's word so much that they end up realising the truth and leaving. :)