Which were you Promised??

[crossnote]

Not only was I told that "God has a wonderful plan for your life" but I was given the 4 Spiritual Laws tract. However, it wasn't the words of the tract that impressed me, but rather the diligence of the man who gave it to me, in sharing Christ with literally every person I met.

My husband was the one who told me to repent, but he never said anything about what life would be like after I did repent and believe. He is still caught in the "salvation=happiness" trap, along with once you are saved, you are perfect, and if you are not, then you aren't saved. They kind of seem to go together, in a shallow sort of way. I mean, if you have Jesus, shouldn't you be happy all the time? And if you are not, then it is obviously not the fault of Jesus, so who's fault is it? A very condemning theology.

I ran in charismatic circles initially, with many friends ending up moving even further in the direction of life being a perfect, unending bowl of cherries, and condemning anyone who wasn't. Which, incidently is what bothers me so immensely about the Health and Wealth gospel - that if you are a Christian, then everything is just going to be healthy and wealthy, and if not - well, once again, the problem is not Jesus, but you!

I had been a Christian for 25 years, and about 7 of those with RA. I was at my wit's end as to why I wasn't healed. I was mad at God. But, God began to show me in the Bible, that no, being a Christian doesn't mean being happy, wealthy or healthy. It means that God is walking with us, and changing us into his image. It means that God really does use everything for our good, including pain and suffering.

So for 10 years, I've been studying the truth that the Bible never presents a "wonderful life" but rather a wonderful God. Some days in the last months, I have begged God to tell me why I have to suffer so much. I have begged him to heal me or kill me. And questioned him as to why other people don't have to suffer the terrible pain I was in to change their character into something more pleasing to him. (Of course, I know that everyone suffers from something!)

The answer remains the same. It is not about me. We can have joy in the Lord, no matter what happens. But happiness, and a perfect life are simply not in the Bible. Instead, we find Jesus suffering on the cross and dying, Paul rejoicing in his suffering, and James warning people that trials are going to come. The Old Testament is the same. God does deliver his people, but sometimes he also does not - but he is there through those hard times.

"Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, endurance produces character and character produces hope. And hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured out through the Holy Spirit who was given to us." Romans 5:3-5

I think that modern evangelism does sell us a false bill of goods as to what our lives are going to be like after we come to Christ. But then, maybe no one would be saved if we didn't leave out a few inconvenient facts?

Bad joke, I know! My testimony is that when God saved me, I had no idea what my life would be like serving Christ. But one thing I learned - God was with me through all the sufferings, and he is certainly in control of everything!

I wish I could have posted this as an example of the sort of response I was looking for. thx

 

[crossnote]

We don't start off telling them we are considered sheep for the slaughter. The bible says that just like babies, they have to start off on spiritual milk. That's like telling a kid learning their ABCs that someday they will have to do long hours of college homework while trying to hold down a job. Or to a girl playing with her doll that someday she will go through extreme pain to give birth to a child that she will love more than anyone, and one day that child will break her heart. The bible says when I was a child I thought like a child, I acted like a child, but now that I am grown I put childish ways behind me. Jesus told Peter that when he was a child he was free to go this way or that, but now others will lead him where he don't want to go- as if in handcuffs and being lead to a torturous death. Wouldn't you rather at that moment be a child playing with their toys? Without knowing politics, religion, and responsibility? Just as we mature as we get older, we mature in Christ. We stop feeding on only milk, and start getting into the meat of the word. To reach complete maturity and love is to do for Christ what He did for us. We all have to die someday anyways. Wouldn't it be better to suffer for an hour than for an eternity? It is more important to get them on the road than to show them what's toward the end of the road. Because the goal of all is heaven. Everyone wants to go to heaven, so give them a chance to take root. Don't lie to them. Tell them satan will test them, but God will help them through.

Great point but neither should we give babes in Christ false dreams either. btw God tests...satan tempts

 

[Angela53510]

I wish I could have posted this as an example of the sort of response I was looking for. thx

I guess it is the teacher in me that tries to find the question in the OP and answer it! And the Holy Spirit inspired me!

Really, Crossnote, your OP was very clearly written, and it wasn't hard to answer the question of what you were looking for. I think people just need to read more. That would also help a lot in all the threads and posts. There would be less misunderstanding.

And thanks so much for your kind words - It's all about Jesus!

 

[Angela53510]

" But happiness, and a perfect life are simply not in the Bible. " perhaps here in this reality my sister but what do you think about the bible?
is it holy or just a plain book?

if someone is a mongoloid or a mentally retarded people then they would lead a better life in heaven but to us who knows what is evil and what is good
We have to be concerned not only for ourselves but also to others
James: 4. 17. To him therefore who knoweth to do good, and doth it not, to him it is sin.

3 John: 1. 4. I have no greater grace than this, to hear that my children walk in truth.
. ...
8. We therefore ought to receive such, that we may be fellow helpers of the truth.
. ...
11. Dearly beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doth good, is of God: he that doth evil, hath not seen God.

of course we cannot see god for now
That's why we had this so called scriptures which his words was been written
And who that has no perfect pleasure with his words ( not perfect understanding )
shall do the same unto them . ...
John: 17. 14. I have given them thy word, and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world; as I also am not of the world.
15. I pray not that thou shouldst take them out of the world, but that thou shouldst keep them from evil.
16. They are not of the world, as I also am not of the world.
17. Sanctify them in truth. Thy word is truth.

Again, reading comprehension would help a great deal. If you had ever read ANY of my posts, you know I believe the Bible is God's complete and holy and living Word.

As for your horrid comments about those with intellectual disabilities, it seems obvious you have never met anyone with Down's Syndrome. They are unique and amazing people, some of whom function normally, and others that need support. They also, as a population, are more happy, friendly and demonstrate Christ-like qualities because of their disability, than "normal" people.

Doctors in med school are given people with Down's Syndrome as an example of selective abortion. And how it is UNETHICAL to destroy an entire population based on one chromosome being different.

I love people with Down's Syndrome. My DIL and son have a niece with it. They deserve to live on earth, and enrich everyone's life because of it. My SIL who is a doctor, says that Down's Syndrome people are generally the most joyful people on earth, in spite of their disabilities, and a pleasure to treat.

I have one strong memory when I was in high school. My father let me take the day off school to go to a school for those with intellectual challenges with the university class he was teaching. In one class, a sweet little boy, about 5 just jumped into my arms and hugged me me. I have never felt such unconditional love in my life. It was so profound, that experience, that I remember it like it just happened, from over 40 years ago. That little boy was a demonstration of love on earth.

So no, we don't kill them. God wants them here on earth to teach us what true joy and real love is like!

 

[VioletReigns]

The biggest mistake the church makes is promoting religious formulas. To take upon oneself any agenda at all is useless. Jesus draws men unto himself only when we ourselves are walking in his light and keeping our eyes on him. Then others see the Lord alive in us and they will yearn for him in their own lives.

For I determined to know nothing among you except Christ and him crucified. (1 Corinthians 2:2)

Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems to me your op is saying: "I have an agenda for which I'm taking a survey and I expect everybody's attention and cooperation in responding to my formula and no other responses will be considered until I unveil exactly what I'm trying to point out."

The reason I think that is because every post which testified of the Lord miraculously bringing someone to the truth of his grace you minimized and then questioned to emphasize your point. And anyone who posted something similar to your agenda was told that, "it was the response I was looking for."

The problem with the op is that it smells of condemnation. Your statement, "We do need to be honest with those we are sharing the Gospel to," and your indifferent replies to those who actually did share the gospel with testimonies of Jesus' miraculous grace causes me to believe that this is more about you proving your truth.

Despite either our screwed up truth or our right truth we have been made alive in Christ. We live on account of HIM, not on account of our correct understanding! Praise God! \/

 

[blue_ladybug]

I agree with Angela. I also know a few Down's Syndrome people, and they are highly functioning, independent people who are able to live on their own and handle daily duties without assistance. We have much to learn from people who are slightly different than us, because of a physical defect or disability. So put down people with diseases, just because you think "they'll have a better life in heaven." LOL--we're ALL gonna have a better life in heaven, whether we're crazy, sane, stupid or smart, or physically challenged or completely healthy or not.

 

[MarcR]

Thanks for the clarification. I just have to say as a know nothing of Church, the Christian faith, our walk etc., at 25 and a new believer...when I heard that statement 'a wonderful plan for your life' it just drummed up what you would expect from a doctrinal ignoramus back then


I guess, I wished I would have at the start had these type of teachings made clear to me...


1 Peter 4:12-13 KJVS
[12] Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: [13] But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.


2 Timothy 3:12 KJVS
[12] Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.


Hebrews 12:5 KJVS
[5] And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

This is why I say that both messages need to be taught together!

 

[blue_ladybug]

I agree with Angela. I also know a few Down's Syndrome people, and they are highly functioning, independent people who are able to live on their own and handle daily duties without assistance. We have much to learn from people who are slightly different than us, because of a physical defect or disability. So don't put down people with diseases, just because you think "they'll have a better life in heaven." LOL--we're ALL gonna have a better life in heaven, whether we're crazy, sane, stupid or smart, or physically challenged or completely healthy or not.

Edit: This should have said DON'T put down people with diseases..

 

[crossnote]

The biggest mistake the church makes is promoting religious formulas. To take upon oneself any agenda at all is useless. Jesus draws men unto himself only when we ourselves are walking in his light and keeping our eyes on him. Then others see the Lord alive in us and they will yearn for him in their own lives.

For I determined to know nothing among you except Christ and him crucified. (1 Corinthians 2:2)

Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems to me your op is saying: "I have an agenda for which I'm taking a survey and I expect everybody's attention and cooperation in responding to my formula and no other responses will be considered until I unveil exactly what I'm trying to point out."

The reason I think that is because every post which testified of the Lord miraculously bringing someone to the truth of his grace you minimized and then questioned to emphasize your point. And anyone who posted something similar to your agenda was told that, "it was the response I was looking for."

The problem with the op is that it smells of condemnation. Your statement, "We do need to be honest with those we are sharing the Gospel to," and your indifferent replies to those who actually did share the gospel with testimonies of Jesus' miraculous grace causes me to believe that this is more about you proving your truth.

Despite either our screwed up truth or our right truth we have been made alive in Christ. We live on account of HIM, not on account of our correct understanding! Praise God! \/

No agenda here. By the responses I took it many people weren't grasping my intention by presenting two possibilities. Mea culpa.

 

[crossnote]

Again, reading comprehension would help a great deal. If you had ever read ANY of my posts, you know I believe the Bible is God's complete and holy and living Word.

As for your horrid comments about those with intellectual disabilities, it seems obvious you have never met anyone with Down's Syndrome. They are unique and amazing people, some of whom function normally, and others that need support. They also, as a population, are more happy, friendly and demonstrate Christ-like qualities because of their disability, than "normal" people.

Doctors in med school are given people with Down's Syndrome as an example of selective abortion. And how it is UNETHICAL to destroy an entire population based on one chromosome being different.

I love people with Down's Syndrome. My DIL and son have a niece with it. They deserve to live on earth, and enrich everyone's life because of it. My SIL who is a doctor, says that Down's Syndrome people are generally the most joyful people on earth, in spite of their disabilities, and a pleasure to treat.

I have one strong memory when I was in high school. My father let me take the day off school to go to a school for those with intellectual challenges with the university class he was teaching. In one class, a sweet little boy, about 5 just jumped into my arms and hugged me me. I have never felt such unconditional love in my life. It was so profound, that experience, that I remember it like it just happened, from over 40 years ago. That little boy was a demonstration of love on earth.

So no, we don't kill them. God wants them here on earth to teach us what true joy and real love is like!

This one is REP-utable.

 

[crossnote]

This is why I say that both messages need to be taught together!

That'll work. Is that how it happened with you?

 

[Jon4TheCross]

The promises of God are truly magnificent.

Mark 10:29-31King James Version (KJV)[SUP]29 [/SUP]And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
[SUP]30 [/SUP]But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]But many that are first shall be last; and the last first.