Witnessing
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I have a hard question, and please don't think it contentious. What do you say to the idea that therapy, or New Age meditation, also can produce well adjusted, loving people? Being decent/compassionate/loving outwardly, which is what you're addressing here, is not something unique to Christians. What sets you apart then? What makes our faith something they can't get through self-help?
I do like the variety of God.
I do like the variety of God.
Spiritually, what someone does to "be better" is an irrelevant issue.
Atheists still understand, inherently, the value of most Christian morals.
They know it's good to be good.
They now it's bad to be bad.
It's programmed into them... by the very God they claim doesn't exist.
Since these things are programmed into them, and they can't avoid it if they try...
they are forced, by their very nature, to try to live out these morals to some degree, but without God.
Of course they will try "this thing" or "that thing" to help them live out these morals which are programmed into them by God.
Will "this thing" or "that thing" actually help them to live in closer accord with these inner morals?
Maybe.
Maybe not.
But it's irrelevant.
Being a "little better" isn't enough.
We are still sinners.
Striving and Striving for a "slightly more ethical" life DOES NOT SAVE YOU.
All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God,
and all still need a savior.
In the bible, the Pharisees followed all kinds of stringent laws to be moral...
and it didn't help them.
Christ said they were all still sinners, headed for hell, and needed to be saved.
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Well, many who try to better themselves don't do it for the sake of salvation, but simply because they feel it's the humane thing to do - they understand there are certain virtues that are worth seeking, and takes time and effort to perfect. It's a misconception that everyone who tries to better themselves are doing it for the afterlife - many are doing it for the mental, health, and social benefits it yields NOW.
Right, but you can't compare the Pharisees to atheists, as the Pharisees appealed to God for the rules they set - they used knowledge of the Scriptures as justification for their authority, and that's what made them hypocrites, because the benefit was for themselves and not to please God and help others they claimed.
If atheists better themselves, they look at societal structure, and decides what benefits and do that. And what benefits and the attitudes are different from culture to culture. There are basic, ethical principles understood across all cultures - but they are principles of how man relates to one another, and doesn't involve God directly.
We believe as we do, often because we are conditioned for it. If we hear the word, and converted, that is great. But many who believe in the Western world, do so because they are taught or familiar with it or the ideal Moral Figure held up culturally is what they will sought first for answers.
And that is why I asked, is witnessing here in the Western world, or being aggressive in apologetics, beneficial? Now, sharing your story - wonderful. We should all share our story, but we shouldn't force it, either. Jesus is, as they say, a Gentleman - He knocks and waits patiently. He doesn't pick the lock; He doesn't take a beam and break down the door. He doesn't use trickery of words or tries to convince. If we are Christlike, we offer our testimony, and if it's not received, we leave it be. At least, that's how I think witnessing should be done.
It's important to remember the context in which Jesus issued the Great Commission - the idea of the Resurrection of the Messiah, One who suffered and by that gained salvation for all, was foreign to the Jews, and they rejected it. Because to them, He can't be the Messiah if He hadn't the plan or power to overthrow enemies.
But you see, in the States, it is not a foreign idea, and Hollywood even capitalizes on it, and books are sold in the millions about it. This is a different context, than the one of St. Peter and St. Paul, which is why I think we should bear these in mind when reading their letters and the Gospels.
Right, but you can't compare the Pharisees to atheists, as the Pharisees appealed to God for the rules they set - they used knowledge of the Scriptures as justification for their authority, and that's what made them hypocrites, because the benefit was for themselves and not to please God and help others they claimed.
If atheists better themselves, they look at societal structure, and decides what benefits and do that. And what benefits and the attitudes are different from culture to culture. There are basic, ethical principles understood across all cultures - but they are principles of how man relates to one another, and doesn't involve God directly.
We believe as we do, often because we are conditioned for it. If we hear the word, and converted, that is great. But many who believe in the Western world, do so because they are taught or familiar with it or the ideal Moral Figure held up culturally is what they will sought first for answers.
And that is why I asked, is witnessing here in the Western world, or being aggressive in apologetics, beneficial? Now, sharing your story - wonderful. We should all share our story, but we shouldn't force it, either. Jesus is, as they say, a Gentleman - He knocks and waits patiently. He doesn't pick the lock; He doesn't take a beam and break down the door. He doesn't use trickery of words or tries to convince. If we are Christlike, we offer our testimony, and if it's not received, we leave it be. At least, that's how I think witnessing should be done.
It's important to remember the context in which Jesus issued the Great Commission - the idea of the Resurrection of the Messiah, One who suffered and by that gained salvation for all, was foreign to the Jews, and they rejected it. Because to them, He can't be the Messiah if He hadn't the plan or power to overthrow enemies.
But you see, in the States, it is not a foreign idea, and Hollywood even capitalizes on it, and books are sold in the millions about it. This is a different context, than the one of St. Peter and St. Paul, which is why I think we should bear these in mind when reading their letters and the Gospels.
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And I was using the term "faith" loosely, as the "something different" Christians have. I was not referring to the faith in Christ, but this light some Christian circles claim that if you're truly following Christ, you will put off to all those around you, and these people will "want what you have."
I am not opposed to learning about New Age, and other movements - the Church herself has some movements within her that are kinda fad like. I've heard of churches using chips and soda for Communion, having sofas and incense for gathering rather than pews.
The Church has a TON of diversity within her. That is actually one of the things I like about this belief system. And many churches, though they fight about doctrines, will say the others are Christian because they have repented and believed on Jesus - they just don't know anything about anything else. And there are those who condemn others for not adhering to this belief or that belief.
So, when someone talks about "hopping on the bandwagon" or the latest movement as something that's beneath a Christian, oh trust me, it's not and very common in the Church. And just because a doctrine, such as Sola Scriptura, has stood the test of time, doesn't mean it wasn't new at some point, as other things popping up in the churches that intimidate traditionally minded believers.
You know, using the organ in worship was highly resisted, because guess who used that instrument? It was used in pubs, and thought to be an unholy instrument. Yet now, you hear some circles condemning guitars, drums, etc, and speak of the organ as if it was always loved and prefered. It wasn't.
Anyhow, that's really getting off the topic. I'm sorry I didn't specify what I meant by faith; I thought the context would lend to that. I apologize.
I am not opposed to learning about New Age, and other movements - the Church herself has some movements within her that are kinda fad like. I've heard of churches using chips and soda for Communion, having sofas and incense for gathering rather than pews.
The Church has a TON of diversity within her. That is actually one of the things I like about this belief system. And many churches, though they fight about doctrines, will say the others are Christian because they have repented and believed on Jesus - they just don't know anything about anything else. And there are those who condemn others for not adhering to this belief or that belief.
So, when someone talks about "hopping on the bandwagon" or the latest movement as something that's beneath a Christian, oh trust me, it's not and very common in the Church. And just because a doctrine, such as Sola Scriptura, has stood the test of time, doesn't mean it wasn't new at some point, as other things popping up in the churches that intimidate traditionally minded believers.
You know, using the organ in worship was highly resisted, because guess who used that instrument? It was used in pubs, and thought to be an unholy instrument. Yet now, you hear some circles condemning guitars, drums, etc, and speak of the organ as if it was always loved and prefered. It wasn't.
Anyhow, that's really getting off the topic. I'm sorry I didn't specify what I meant by faith; I thought the context would lend to that. I apologize.
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