Works and Salvation

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turbosixx

Active member
#121
Sep 16, 2023
541
123
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#121
Soyeong said:
While it is true that Abraham believed God, so it was counted to him as righteousness (Genesis 15:6), it is also true that he believed God, so he obeyed God's command to offer Isaac (Hebrews 11:17), so the same faith by which he was declared righteous was also expressed as being an obeyer of God, but he did not earn his righteousness as a wage as the result of his obedience (Romans 4). In James 2:21-24, he quoted Genesis 15:6 to support saying that Abraham was justified by his works when he offered Isaac, his faith was active along with his works, and his faith completed his works, so he was justified by his works insofar as they were expressing his faith, but not insofar as they were earning it as a wage.
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I respectfully suggest you're still not telling me Paul's point from chapters 2-3 and how Abraham in chapter 4 proves the point. No need to go to other books, Paul gives plenty of detail in the context.

Soyeong said:
In Acts 21:20, they were rejoicing that tens of thousands of Jews were coming to faith who were all zealous for the Mosaic Law, which is in accordance with believing the Gospel that Christ taught in Matthew 4:15-23 to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand and with believing in what Christ accomplished in Titus 2:14 in that he gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works.
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Once you see the point Paul is making, that will clear this up.
 
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PaulThomson

Well-known member
#122
Oct 29, 2023
2,000
262
83
#122
Dino246 said:
You've done a marvelous job of confusing a simple issue.

Here's the simple version:

We don't get saved by our own effort, period.

Once we are saved, we are empowered by the Holy Spirit to participate in the work of the kingdom.
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When is a gift not really a gift? When it is imposed upon someone without their prior consent,

If I slip someone a highly addictive drug that they could never afford to pay for, and provides it free of charge, without getting their prior consent, and they become addicted so that they subsequently want more, would that be a gift? They didn't get addicted by their own effort. Once addicted they wanted more of the same.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#123
Jun 30, 2015
24,778
13,412
113
#123
PaulThomson said:
When is a gift not really a gift? When it is imposed upon someone without their prior consent,

If I slip someone a highly addictive drug that they could never afford to pay for, and provides it free of charge, without getting their prior consent, and they become addicted so that they subsequently want more, would that be a gift? They didn't get addicted by their own effort. Once addicted they wanted more of the same.
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I'm trying to understand how your example relates to the gift of salvation. :unsure:
 
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PaulThomson

Well-known member
#124
Oct 29, 2023
2,000
262
83
#124
Dino246 said:
I'm trying to understand how your example relates to the gift of salvation. :unsure:
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It's aimed at those who believe God regenerates before believing in Christ can begin. Maybe that's not you.
 
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