Windows 10 deadline

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Should one upgrade to Windows 10?

  • Yes upgrade

    Votes: 9 69.2%
  • No do not upgrade

    Votes: 4 30.8%

  • Total voters
    13

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#81
It's funny, some people do and some people don't. Luck of the draw it seems. I blew out the air cooling vents and ran all the scans and it seems to have stabilized - for now. But yeah, 7 years in computer time is like a zillion years of our time. Got to get in the habit of backing up every night and looking for a deal on a new one...
 

ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,171
91
48
#82
If you'd like some help with older games on Windows 8 and 10 let me know. I use an older sports game with DX9 on windows 8.1 and it runs well. I also play a lot of other games and most of the new os like 8.1/10 don't have the "legacy/old direct X files in the back end of the new direct X 12 on 8.1/10 which causes older games to be choppy or not display well.....you need the direct X rollup update for June 2010.....it will fill the back end in....also games need .net framework 3.5 and 4.5 to work with direct X. If you need the link for these I can supply them to you from microsoft....just let me know by pm... :) Happy gaming!

EDIT:

Here is the link to a guide I made for my game mad08 to work on Windows versions xp/7/8.1/10.....some of the links of .netframework and direct X are on there as well on my first post on the gaming forum....some suggestion may work for your game idk..?

Attn: W10/8.1/7/XP Users with issues running madden08 update revision 11-2015 - FootballIdiot
Hi and thanks for the help. Windows 10 comes equipped with .net framework already and I have all the directx releases. My issue isn't getting games to play. In fact, they run flawlessly in their native state. My issue is when modding dx9 games that use the d3d9.dll.

My issue is a little more complex since it involves playing modified games. Take Skyrim for instance. I have added some things to the game such as 4k textures and meshes for parallax, lighting overhauls, about 140 scripted plugins, and two shader mods that use advanced forms of antialiasing and add complex ambient occlusion, depth of field, and other things like water reflections and subsurface scattering. I am running about 160 mods at the moment, some of which add a ton of content to the game, some that make the graphics better than any current gen game, and some that are simply bug fixes.

Skyrim in its native state is hard capped at around 3GB~ of RAM and VRAM usage which isn't an issue in an unmodified game. If it reaches or exceeds this limit, such as in a modded game, it crashes. One workaround is to use a .dll injector that duplicates processes to allow for near unlimited use of RAM and VRAM. In Windows 7, if I modded the game to my liking, I would be using around 7-8GB of VRAM and RAM of my combined 24GB available in 4k resolution and still be able to keep a high stable frame rate. Since Windows 8.1 and Windows 10, the injector can no longer do what it's supposed to do because of the hard cap of 4GB imposed on dx9 apps by Microsoft. They have admitted this to be a bug on their part and that is all they have said about it in over a year. There is even a petition out there for them to fix this.

So I am limited on how much I can mod the game, the quality of antialiasing, the quality of textures, my resolution, how many scripts I can run, and so on.

I spent almost two years saving money and buying parts to build a beastly PC in the hopes of fully modding my older games. I am running 16GB of high quality RAM and 8GB of GDDRX5 VRAM from my graphics card. Unfortunately, because of this bug, my dx9 games, even with the .dll injector, are only allowed by Windows to utilize 4GB of my combined total of 24GB of memory. This severely limits what I can do and makes a modded game virtually unplayable since it crashes once it hits the 4GB ceiling. What's worse is that two of the mods (including the injector that allows for use of more memory) require a pre-allocated amount of memory before starting the game of 768MB each. This sucks up around 1.5GB of memory from the start for memory swapping and leaves only 2.5GB to utilize in real time.

This wouldn't be an issue for most people, but take the one shader mod I'm using for example. It has over 4 million downloads since its release. This means there are a ton of people who like to modify their games and are being limited by the Windows 10 architecture. One solution is to revert back to Windows 7 to remove the memory cap, but Windows 7 doesn't support directx 12 games which most future games will start running under. So in Windows 7, you won't be able to play next gen games and in Windows 10, you can't play modded older games.

I spent a lot of money on this PC in hopes of pushing older games to their max and have been strong armed into getting Windows 10, just to find out what I built the PC for is impossible to do in Windows 10. And furthermore, to revert back to Windows 7 means I won't be able to use my PC to play newer games that it is designed to run as well. The only option is to buy a copy of Windows 7 and set up a dual boot for both OSes, which almost makes me wonder if that is why Microsoft hasn't fixed the bug yet. More money for them from gamers.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
764
113
39
Australia
#83
Hi and thanks for the help. Windows 10 comes equipped with .net framework already and I have all the directx releases. My issue isn't getting games to play. In fact, they run flawlessly in their native state. My issue is when modding dx9 games that use the d3d9.dll.

My issue is a little more complex since it involves playing modified games. Take Skyrim for instance. I have added some things to the game such as 4k textures and meshes for parallax, lighting overhauls, about 140 scripted plugins, and two shader mods that use advanced forms of antialiasing and add complex ambient occlusion, depth of field, and other things like water reflections and subsurface scattering. I am running about 160 mods at the moment, some of which add a ton of content to the game, some that make the graphics better than any current gen game, and some that are simply bug fixes.

Skyrim in its native state is hard capped at around 3GB~ of RAM and VRAM usage which isn't an issue in an unmodified game. If it reaches or exceeds this limit, such as in a modded game, it crashes. One workaround is to use a .dll injector that duplicates processes to allow for near unlimited use of RAM and VRAM. In Windows 7, if I modded the game to my liking, I would be using around 7-8GB of VRAM and RAM of my combined 24GB available in 4k resolution and still be able to keep a high stable frame rate. Since Windows 8.1 and Windows 10, the injector can no longer do what it's supposed to do because of the hard cap of 4GB imposed on dx9 apps by Microsoft. They have admitted this to be a bug on their part and that is all they have said about it in over a year. There is even a petition out there for them to fix this.

So I am limited on how much I can mod the game, the quality of antialiasing, the quality of textures, my resolution, how many scripts I can run, and so on.

I spent almost two years saving money and buying parts to build a beastly PC in the hopes of fully modding my older games. I am running 16GB of high quality RAM and 8GB of GDDRX5 VRAM from my graphics card. Unfortunately, because of this bug, my dx9 games, even with the .dll injector, are only allowed by Windows to utilize 4GB of my combined total of 24GB of memory. This severely limits what I can do and makes a modded game virtually unplayable since it crashes once it hits the 4GB ceiling. What's worse is that two of the mods (including the injector that allows for use of more memory) require a pre-allocated amount of memory before starting the game of 768MB each. This sucks up around 1.5GB of memory from the start for memory swapping and leaves only 2.5GB to utilize in real time.

This wouldn't be an issue for most people, but take the one shader mod I'm using for example. It has over 4 million downloads since its release. This means there are a ton of people who like to modify their games and are being limited by the Windows 10 architecture. One solution is to revert back to Windows 7 to remove the memory cap, but Windows 7 doesn't support directx 12 games which most future games will start running under. So in Windows 7, you won't be able to play next gen games and in Windows 10, you can't play modded older games.

I spent a lot of money on this PC in hopes of pushing older games to their max and have been strong armed into getting Windows 10, just to find out what I built the PC for is impossible to do in Windows 10. And furthermore, to revert back to Windows 7 means I won't be able to use my PC to play newer games that it is designed to run as well. The only option is to buy a copy of Windows 7 and set up a dual boot for both OSes, which almost makes me wonder if that is why Microsoft hasn't fixed the bug yet. More money for them from gamers.
Speak to me bro, I'm just getting back into Unreal Engine again after some time, have you done much work with that?
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
1,040
113
76
#84
Another alternative is to switch to Apple if you can afford it. I have a pre used Apple Laptop and find myself using that more than my windows desktop. Apple OS upgrades are free.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#85
I had an Apple laptop once. Ended up flinging it like a Frisbee.
 

Child

Junior Member
Mar 8, 2009
12
1
3
#86
I am a huge fan of Windows 10 and Cortana. I have Windows 10 on most of my computers now except for my desktop PC because I didn't want the possibility of compatibility error with my most important device.

I was even able to download after July 29th because I was willing to trade the current ISO my computer had, Windows 8. if you get rid of the current ISO to download Windows 10 it lets you

I think the deadline is to make new Media sticks with a backup since gratefully I was able to download it after July 29th
 
K

Kirk

Guest
#87
The Windows ISO is always free for any version, it is useless to you if it isn't registered, the deadline has to do with free registration. Windows does not and has never (as far as i have seen since windows 3.1) forced a windows upgrade on an older machine, even with automatic updating it will still ask to perform a windows upgrade, not to mention you would have to click next at some point anyways to actually do it, if it did try to install on it's own.
 
K

Kirk

Guest
#88
Free is a strong word, they are only "free" due to the fact they have a huge markup on their hardware i would say around at least 30% (note they use the same hardware as windows pcs).
 
K

Kirk

Guest
#89
Uh oh. The nightmare begins... the last 4/5 days it's been getting progressively worse - things not working, freezes, glitches, and the dreaded blue and black screens of death... Of course I'm not discounting the fact that the laptop is getting old (I bought it right after windows 7 came out, what was that 2009?) but either way it's spiraling downhill.
Yeah this is definitely a problem with your laptop, when upgrading probably installed parts of windows in bad sectors that are getting worst, i would recommend scanning and replacing your hard drive if it wasn't so old. But frankly you can find "refurbished" desktop that can run windows 10 great for 150, and under 300 for laptops.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#90
I did some scans, updated some drivers, and blew a ton of dust out of the cooling fan and fins. Seems to be back to normal now.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#92
It actually flew pretty well :)
 

ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,171
91
48
#94
Speak to me bro, I'm just getting back into Unreal Engine again after some time, have you done much work with that?
With the engine itself? Nothing. I'm not a game dev. The only thing I've done as far as modding goes (other than modding my games using other modders' resources and making sweetfx/reshade/enbseries presets) is retexturing. It's easy enough to build on someone else' work though. I've also done some 3d modeling for a few animations I made, messed around with some displacement mapping (parallax and bump mapping), and practiced with some basic geometrical shape physics, but nothing very complex or using any game engines. Just 3d animation programs.

Are you a game developer?
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
764
113
39
Australia
#95
With the engine itself? Nothing. I'm not a game dev. The only thing I've done as far as modding goes (other than modding my games using other modders' resources and making sweetfx/reshade/enbseries presets) is retexturing. It's easy enough to build on someone else' work though. I've also done some 3d modeling for a few animations I made, messed around with some displacement mapping (parallax and bump mapping), and practiced with some basic geometrical shape physics, but nothing very complex or using any game engines. Just 3d animation programs.

Are you a game developer?
Oh righto, so your more on art side of it. Ive on and off played around with cryengine and unreal designing levels over the years, not making games as such but the other side of the spectrum of modding. I'm not a game developer but I'd like to be in a team one day designing levels :) I'm working on one at the moment for Unreal Tournament.
 
U

Ultimatum77

Guest
#96
Hi and thanks for the help. Windows 10 comes equipped with .net framework already and I have all the directx releases. My issue isn't getting games to play. In fact, they run flawlessly in their native state. My issue is when modding dx9 games that use the d3d9.dll. ...

My to play newer games that it is designed to run as well. The only option is to buy a copy of Windows 7 and set up a dual boot for both OSes, which almost makes me wonder if that is why Microsoft hasn't fixed the bug yet. More money for them from gamers.
Hmm, well if you need help dual booting setup for windows 7 just let me know....you would have to also change your Motherboard setting from UEFI to Legacy/BIOS b/c Win 7 only runs (at least that I know of) on Legacy Bios, I don't think it has UEFI support like 8/10.....

The other option is this alternative to direct X I read about called vulkan....I haven't tried it but it is an alternative developed by the graphics manufacturers AMD, Intel and NVidia as a joint project. I don't know if it will help with your memory issues but worth checking out...b/c it's was done to become independent of MS's money grubbing direct X platform which developers have to pay to use I believe....

https://www.khronos.org/vulkan/

Also as far as modding, I think your using something similar to what my madden08 modders call Tex-mod of overlaying HD textures/graphics over the original game...again I haven't tried this tex mod thing so don't know how to help?

You could try to use a USB drive to boost system memory using ready boost? but don't really know if that will help with your virtual ram issues....

The other option you have is running Win7 as a virtual machine in windows 8/10, you can set custom amounts of vram in things like virtualbox for example.....

If you have a windows 7 pc with your game skyrim why not just copy the parition and create space on your new pc's hard drive and then clone that windows 7 partition next to windows 10...then run a boot fixer like Easy BCD or windows 7/10 startup repair....it would also cut down on reinstalling all your windows 7 apps needed for skyrim....

I use this tool a lot...it's free

Free Partition Manager Software - AOMEI Partition Assistant Standard

Sorry to be so long winded...just hoping to give you some ideas that help... :)