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What do you tell the born again believer like me? I was baptized in His name in front of my whole church, yet was not saved. However When He did save me, when my dead spirit was resurrected and reconciled to His Spirit making me a NEW man, that for sure happen without any water around. Now to be...

This is a HUGE problem for your view and I'm glad you brought it up, you think the Jews are waiting for "their own salvation" to come. YOU ARE WRONG, it already came in Jesus ALL of OUR Savior. There is no plan 2 and you can NOT show me in scripture where "some are saved this way, and some that...

I get what you're going at here, but this proves nothing. How to you know hail that size didn't fall then. None of us were there to say. So while I'm not trying to act like your argument here is completely ridiculous or anything of the sort. I can honestly understand why you'd think this way...

I was saved the same way. However check this out, it was after years of being an unknowing false convert, and when I hit my knees in repentance I wasn't even thinking of God in that exact moment. I had already "given my heart to Jesus", I already went up front and repeated the prayer, I was even...

Okay so I guess He was lying I guess, or at least wrong? The way you asked this is very strange to me, you take Jesus words then frame them in a way that also fits history as well, then say "No, of course not". So that has to mean that you think Jesus was wrong here, doesn't it? Why do you feel...

But He keeps talking right? He doesn't end it there, He tells THEM in 24: 34-35 " 34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.", then does go on to tell them that no one knows...

I think this is such a backwards way of thinking about it. You say "The claim is that no one can have faith unless God wills it." Okay fair enough, but that also puts every bit of the glory EXACTLY where it belongs, with God. For some reason you can see this problem glaringly, yet seem...

Well if this doesn't show that things never change I don't know what will. This quote seems like it was pulled strait from and number of threads in the Bible Discussion section. They were having the exact same conversations/debates/accusations/answers we still post daily here. Fascinating.

I'm sorry brother, and while I am not at all saying that it doesn't happen this way for some, this message only made me a false convert for 5 or 6 years. I did exactly what you just laid out and it was laid out to me the exact same way by my pastor. I did respond to the alter call and prayed the...

Then you're just confused, are not thinking deeply, and have no clue what we mean or what you're talking about. Weird.

I do not understand how this concept alludes them. They want to be able to have something to boast about so bad that they can't give God all the Glory He is due. They think "they" get to own there decision/choice when His word they claim to hold to so strictly tells us very clearly that ALL the...

EVERYONE believes in limited atonement that doesn't believe everyone is saved no matter what. Regardless of your camp, or what you label yourself as, if you don't believe that everyone is saved, then you HAVE TO believe there's some kind of limit to His atonement. I don't really care about any...

Well if it's not, then I guess you're arguing with me for no reason, so either way no need to "teach" me anymore. Have a great day.

Okay I get it, you think God needs your help in salvation, that you have to "do" something to be saved. You believe you have something to boast about. You reduce Gods glory to lift up your own. I get it. I disagree and KNOW it's ALL God that saved me and I did 0%. We disagree. Have a great day.

Okay I get it, you think God needs your help in salvation, that you have to "do" something to be saved. You believe you have something to boast about. You reduce Gods glory to lift up your own. I get it. I disagree and KNOW it's ALL God that saved me and I did 0%. We disagree. Have a great day.

Does God not GRANT us repentance? Look I want to be very clear, I don't disagree with our choice, nor what we go through as these things take place in real time. What I am disagreeing with is exactly how much credit we get, and how big a role does our choice play. I think raising that too high...

Okay, I understand what you're saying, but to pretend God wasn't drawing them to His self the whole time is just silly. What do you say to the person who did think he was doing all this you're describing, is told exactly what you're teaching here, and to be honest teaching what the vast majority...

We need to clarify exactly what we mean when we say "Do you see how when we’re saying “ I’m saved by grace it doesn’t matter what I do “ What do you think I mean by this? First you'll have to show me where I said “ I’m saved by grace it doesn’t matter what I do “. I'd NEVER say that and do not...

So are you saying the price is acceptance? This makes salvation dependent on us correct? I'm not saying we don't have a choice, or we don't have to accept t all. I'm really just trying to dig a little deeper here. Is this what our salvation is dependent on, or is this just a small piece in the...

Shouldn't that be, "What doseth thou say-ith now" :LOL: please know this is a joke 100%. Just in case it can be taken any other way.