1 John 2: 12-14..3 stages of spiritual development... a study

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eternally-gratefull

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#1
#1
a study of the 3 stages of spiritual development as given by the apostle John.

I believe the apostle John gives incite to key aspects, provisions and responsibilities into 3 stages of christian development.

1 John 2:
12 I write to you, little children, Because your sins are forgiven you for His name’s sake.
13 I write to you, fathers, Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.
I write to you, young men, Because you have overcome the wicked one.
I write to you, little children, Because you have known the Father.
14 I have written to you, fathers, Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.
I have written to you, young men, Because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, And you have overcome the wicked one.

Here we see John as so many times before, using something physical, to help us understand a spiritual truth. John is not talking about babies, teens and adults. he is talking about babes in Christ, or new born believers, Believers who have passed childhood behavior and are actually out in the world learning by doing, and spiritual
leaders (fathers) who have done it, and are now able to teach others.

I would like to go over these three stages, and see what John says are the aspects, provision and responsibility of all three. I have never tried an actual bible study in here before, but am quite frankly sick of the OSAS, LAW and Israel threads which on one hand are great for sharpening our swords, but on the other, realy does nothing to help us or others grow spiritually (and will most likely never change anyone's mind) where as discussing what the word of God says about growing in Christ I think would be a benefit to us all. I just pray people and myself can come with open minds, and we can actually learn something together.
 
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eternally-gratefull

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#2
#2
I guess first thing we have to discuss is to go to the very beginning, John speaks of little children, so it would do us no good if we just start here, I think first we must understand how a person God to be a child in the first place.

I think if we look at another physical occurrence, it will help us in this manner (John actually did this in his gospel in chapter three) to see that in order to become a child of God, borth must first take place.

If we look at human birth, we see three aspects.


prenatal process......"X (birth)"_______Postnatal process.

as we see, we have two processes, met in the middle by an EVENT. Birth is not a process, it is an event, It happened in a single day, in a single period of time. we do not celebrate conception day, we celebrate our birthday, because this is the day we were given life, and came into the world and became a person, who would be nurtured by our parents as children, taught by teachers things we need to learn to make it on our own when we get older. and through experience and knowledge, able to teach others what we have learned, and nuture other children.

Jesus tells us in John 3 that Physical birth is not enough, that we must be BORN AGAIN, if we are to see the kingdom of God and have any hope of doing the things John is telling us here in 1 John 2

Spiritual birth is also a process. There is the pre-birth process. or a spiritual pre-natal process which occurs before one is born again. so I would like this to be our first line of discussion. I will ask people to share, then share my views, and we can go from there (I want this to be a discussion, not me teaching)

what events occure during this spiritual pre-natal process which may lead to the event of spiritual birth.
 
royalscot

royalscot

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#3
Jan 27, 2013
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#3
if your going to study john, in my humble opinion, it would may be prudent to explain that john writes in allegory or parables , style of writing, and although at face value,may be understood, there is also a higher spiritual value in deeper meanings etc.

like the verse quote. 2 fathers, 2 young men and 2 children, in mixed up sentences.

to the father says the same thing,
13 I write to you, fathers, Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.
14 I have written to you, fathers, Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.

to the young men.
I have written to you, young men, Because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, And you have overcome the wicked one.
I write to you, young men, Because you have overcome the wicked one.

to the child.
I write to you, little children, Because you have known the Father.
12 I write to you, little children, Because your sins are forgiven you for His name’s sake.

same thing said to father and young man, difference to child. yet applies to heavens father . etc

in short you have serious thinking with johns written work , when studding it.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#4
#4
royalscot said:
if your going to study john, in my humble opinion, it would may be prudent to explain that john writes in allegory or parables , style of writing, and although at face value,may be understood, there is also a higher spiritual value in deeper meanings etc.

like the verse quote. 2 fathers, 2 young men and 2 children, in mixed up sentences.

to the father says the same thing,
13 I write to you, fathers, Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.
14 I have written to you, fathers, Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.

to the young men.
I have written to you, young men, Because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, And you have overcome the wicked one.
I write to you, young men, Because you have overcome the wicked one.

to the child.
I write to you, little children, Because you have known the Father.
12 I write to you, little children, Because your sins are forgiven you for His name’s sake.

same thing said to father and young man, difference to child. yet applies to heavens father . etc

in short you have serious thinking with johns written work , when studding it.
Click to expand...
I agree, and hope to get that when we get to the content of all those things. But I just thought if we do not know how we got into being one of those things, then it is all useless.

ie, what good is it to say to a child. Your sins have been forgiven and you know the father, if one has never been a child. it is useless.
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#5
#5
this is not to argue...

but i would like to see more evidence to show that john is not actually speaking to children and young men and fathers...
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#6
#6
RachelBibleStudent said:
this is not to argue...

but i would like to see more evidence to show that john is not actually speaking to children and young men and fathers...
Click to expand...

can a father not know his sins are forgiven and know God? I know many fathers who do not yet understand this. Then again can a child know he has overcome the evil one, I know many children who are stronger Christians than many adults.

if we look at the aspects provisions and responsibilities which can be seen from Johns words, I think we would see the coloration.

I guess I can not give you biblical proof, where John actually says, this is what I mean, . It was just a sermon I heard a few weeks ago I wanted to share with everyone, and I wanted to go through with it together.. to test what was said.. and maybe we can all learn something together.
 
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Gr8grace

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#7
#7
eternally-gratefull said:

can a father not know his sins are forgiven and know God? I know many fathers who do not yet understand this. Then again can a child know he has overcome the evil one, I know many children who are stronger Christians than many adults.

if we look at the aspects provisions and responsibilities which can be seen from Johns words, I think we would see the coloration.

I guess I can not give you biblical proof, where John actually says, this is what I mean, . It was just a sermon I heard a few weeks ago I wanted to share with everyone, and I wanted to go through with it together.. to test what was said.. and maybe we can all learn something together.
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Hi EG........you been gone for a bit. Nice to see ya back.

John is actually pointing out the growth spiritually in born-again believers.

1. The Little children~~babes in Christ. about all they know is that their sins are forgiven.
2. children~~they now know the Father.......they are advancing.

1. the young men~~you have overcome the evil one. They have enough doctrine, that they have tools to overcome the evil one.

2. the young men~~Now they are strong and doctrine abides in them AND they have overcome the evil one.

And the fathers are a picture of the spiritually mature in Christ.


"I am writing to you" is for the purpose of advancement in maturity.

" I write to you" is John noticing and encouraging their personal Growth.
 
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RachelBibleStudent

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#8
#8
eternally-gratefull said:

can a father not know his sins are forgiven and know God? I know many fathers who do not yet understand this. Then again can a child know he has overcome the evil one, I know many children who are stronger Christians than many adults.

if we look at the aspects provisions and responsibilities which can be seen from Johns words, I think we would see the coloration.

I guess I can not give you biblical proof, where John actually says, this is what I mean, . It was just a sermon I heard a few weeks ago I wanted to share with everyone, and I wanted to go through with it together.. to test what was said.. and maybe we can all learn something together.
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ok actually i see what you mean now...that none of what john says to each of these three groups of people would actually be applicable exclusively to these groups...

thank you!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#9
#9
ok thanks both of you for your responses.

Maybe you misunderstood my question. What were the things which brought us to the point of our spiritual birth.

Here are my thoughts. or what I have written down in my notes. what do people think?

where we start to ask questions of where things came from, where do we come from, is their a purpose for me, or my life. Who made these things, or did they just evolve. Is there a God. if there is, who is he, and what is he like. and what is my relationship to him.

this and many other things hopefully lead us to a time where an event of historical and universal significance occurs (scripture says when one who is dead, is made alive, one who is lost, is found, that there is rejoicing in heaven) and one is actually "born again" or made a child of God.
 
royalscot

royalscot

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Jan 27, 2013
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eternally-gratefull said:
I agree, and hope to get that when we get to the content of all those things. But I just thought if we do not know how we got into being one of those things, then it is all useless.

ie, what good is it to say to a child. Your sins have been forgiven and you know the father, if one has never been a child. it is useless.
Click to expand...
i agree
also the child, the young man , and father, can be the same person. at different stages of the christian walk. ( a mix of human and spiritual meanings )

I write to you, little children, Because you have known the Father.
I write to you, little children, Because your sins are forgiven you for His name’s sake.


ie first milk step, is believe there is a god, your are forgiven because of jesus. name sake.etc ( no matter, what age you are , when a christian starts believing, the child word follow you though to the end. etc

also the book was meant to be read. i write to you. .

i stop there. and let you get on with your study. lol
 
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Grandpa

Senior Member
#11
Jun 24, 2011
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#11
eternally-gratefull said:
What were the things which brought us to the point of our spiritual birth.
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The first must be the belief in God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

The second must be reading the bible.

The third must be praying, asking the Lord for the things that are in the bible that are according to His Will.

TO know exactly when the birth happened is probably by faith more than by fact. I suppose when a persons spiritual ears are opened and when their spiritual eyes are opened is undeniable proof to the individual that they are in fact, born again.


I'm not 100% sure this is what you were looking for but I thought I would give it a crack...
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#12
#12
royalscot said:
i agree
also the child, the young man , and father, can be the same person. at different stages of the christian walk. ( a mix of human and spiritual meanings )

I write to you, little children, Because you have known the Father.
I write to you, little children, Because your sins are forgiven you for His name’s sake.


ie first milk step, is believe there is a god, your are forgiven because of jesus. name sake.etc ( no matter, what age you are , when a christian starts believing, the child word follow you though to the end. etc

also the book was meant to be read. i write to you. .

i stop there. and let you get on with your study. lol
Click to expand...

oh your fine, I think it gets even deeper than this. And when we get there, you have just given us a good starting point. thanks :)
 
notuptome

notuptome

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#13
May 17, 2013
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#13
Except you come as a little child you cannot enter in.

How many here are prime examples of folks that cannot see the simple truth of the gospel because they have learned theology.

I think back to when I got saved and I do not believe that I knew much beyond the simple truth that I was a sinner, Jesus was without sin, Jesus died and rose again from the grave. I did not fully comprehend that God would need to change my thinking entirely about a lot of my misconceptions. I did not understand that the new birth was so great an event that I would never be the same old person that I was before.

God never gives us more than we need to come to Christ. God never sanctifies us before He saves us.

New born babes in Christ can only testify of what Christ has done for them. Thank God they do not need to present a theological argument. But then just a simple testimony of how Christ lifted the burden of sin from them and gave them new life in Christ is most adequate.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#14
#14
Grandpa said:
The first must be the belief in God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

The second must be reading the bible.

The third must be praying, asking the Lord for the things that are in the bible that are according to His Will.

TO know exactly when the birth happened is probably by faith more than by fact. I suppose when a persons spiritual ears are opened and when their spiritual eyes are opened is undeniable proof to the individual that they are in fact, born again.


I'm not 100% sure this is what you were looking for but I thought I would give it a crack...
Click to expand...

I guess we have to see, when did this birth occur.

John said in his gospel. chapter 1 verse 12 that he has given the right (power) to BECOME children of God only to those who believe in him. so if faith is the basis of being born as a child of God. then what is it which brings us to faith.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#15
#15
notuptome said:
Except you come as a little child you cannot enter in.

How many here are prime examples of folks that cannot see the simple truth of the gospel because they have learned theology.

I think back to when I got saved and I do not believe that I knew much beyond the simple truth that I was a sinner, Jesus was without sin, Jesus died and rose again from the grave. I did not fully comprehend that God would need to change my thinking entirely about a lot of my misconceptions. I did not understand that the new birth was so great an event that I would never be the same old person that I was before.

God never gives us more than we need to come to Christ. God never sanctifies us before He saves us.

New born babes in Christ can only testify of what Christ has done for them. Thank God they do not need to present a theological argument. But then just a simple testimony of how Christ lifted the burden of sin from them and gave them new life in Christ is most adequate.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Click to expand...
this too is a good place to start about the children.

John said the little child knows his sin is forgiven. and he Knows the father.

why are these things important for a child (even though it is also important for all people) to know and understand, and how can it help a child grow to a young adult.
 
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RachelBibleStudent

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#16
#16
eternally-gratefull said:
this too is a good place to start about the children.

John said the little child knows his sin is forgiven. and he Knows the father.

why are these things important for a child (even though it is also important for all people) to know and understand, and how can it help a child grow to a young adult.
Click to expand...
in order to be emotionally healthy children must have parents and other caring adults in their lives who love them unconditionally...children need to 'know their fathers' in the sense that the father must be understood to be an approachable loving person...and they need to know that their parents forgive them and love them regardless of the times when they misbehave...

in the same way we could say that to be spiritually healthy children of God we must know that God the father is our 'abba' who welcomes us into his presence...and that he forgives our sin and keeps us reconciled to him... these are two elements of our faith that a new christian absolutely must come to understand...
 
notuptome

notuptome

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#17
May 17, 2013
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#17
eternally-gratefull said:
this too is a good place to start about the children.

John said the little child knows his sin is forgiven. and he Knows the father.

why are these things important for a child (even though it is also important for all people) to know and understand, and how can it help a child grow to a young adult.
Click to expand...
Little children have an enormous capacity to trust and believe what they are taught. No experience to teach them to distrust. No experience with betrayal. What a lovely thing innocence.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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Gr8grace

Guest
#18
#18
notuptome said:
Little children have an enormous capacity to trust and believe what they are taught. No experience to teach them to distrust. No experience with betrayal. What a lovely thing innocence.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Click to expand...
And John's use of "father" is the same as Pauls in 1 Cor 4:15. Someone who will lead the children in truth.

1 Cor 4:15~~New American Standard Bible
For if you were to have countless tutors in Christ, yet you would not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.

"Tutors" is Paidagogos in the Greek. And they were slaves who took the children to school and gave them attention. They are analogous to the false teachers who would try to "coddle" the new believers and Paul was acting as the "father" who would give it to them straight even if it hurt.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#19
#19
RachelBibleStudent said:
in order to be emotionally healthy children must have parents and other caring adults in their lives who love them unconditionally...children need to 'know their fathers' in the sense that the father must be understood to be an approachable loving person...and they need to know that their parents forgive them and love them regardless of the times when they misbehave...

in the same way we could say that to be spiritually healthy children of God we must know that God the father is our 'abba' who welcomes us into his presence...and that he forgives our sin and keeps us reconciled to him... these are two elements of our faith that a new christian absolutely must come to understand...
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Amen to this. A child that does not understand he is forgiven, and know who the father is will be a child who can not grow. and will always remain a child..

the worse damage any church can do to a new believer in Christ is NOT let them know they are forgiven unconditionally, and have a father who loves them..
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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Dec 12, 2013
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eternally-gratefull said:

I guess we have to see, when did this birth occur.

John said in his gospel. chapter 1 verse 12 that he has given the right (power) to BECOME children of God only to those who believe in him. so if faith is the basis of being born as a child of God. then what is it which brings us to faith.
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Amen and...which were born...

1. Not of blood<---heredity
2. Nor of the WILL of the flesh<---nothing you can do yourself
3. Nor of the WILL of man<---nothing that anyone can do for you

BUT of GOD...

The word will is thelema and means determination, choice, inclination, purpose, decree and lets us know straight up that the birth and becoming the sons of God is totally based upon God, his call, his revealing, his enlightening, his conviction etc....

It is not that we loved him, but that he loved us and called us according to his purpose, his will, his choice, his inclination, his determination etc.....

God thread brother.......
 
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