1 John 5:8 - What is the "water" that bears witness?

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JStates

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Jan 5, 2022
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"A higher plane," hehe
www.youtube.com
#1
Please consider from the passage below (I John 5:5-12)

1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
Testimony Concerning the Son of God
1Jn 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1Jn 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
1Jn 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
1Jn 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1Jn 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jn 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Firstly, the theme of this passage is summed up in verse 11: that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and we have eternal life through Him.
So this is the thing that is being borne witness of in verse 8.
Verse 8 says that in the Earth there are three things that bear witness of this: the Spirit, the water, and the blood. The Spirit is God's Holy Spirit living in every believer, and it convinces us that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. The blood is the shed blood of Jesus Christ, which like the blood of Cain, cries unto God from the ground and from the mercy seat where it was spilled (I think).

But what is the water mentioned in verse 8 and how does it bear witness of Jesus Christ and eternal life?

Feel free to use lots of Bible verses and also to challenge anything I have written which seems incorrect to you.
 

JStates

Active member
Jan 5, 2022
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"A higher plane," hehe
www.youtube.com
#3
The water of baptism.
That's what I was leaning towards, but I was getting a bit mixed up with this verse from Jesus' discussion with Nicodemus:

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

^ So the above is just referring to a physical birth ("born of water")? In other words, "water" being used two entirely different ways between these two passages?
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
4,247
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#4
That's what I was leaning towards, but I was getting a bit mixed up with this verse from Jesus' discussion with Nicodemus:

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

^ So the above is just referring to a physical birth ("born of water")? In other words, "water" being used two entirely different ways between these two passages?
“This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus was baptized in water , received the Holy Ghost immediately after and later then shed his blood for remission of baptism.

“Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:21-22‬ ‭

then of course we know he shed his blood. Water spirit and blood.

Think of it as repentance and remission of sins watch how the water blood and spirit agree

water baptism

“John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Because of his bloodshed

“For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And by his word which is spirit ( John 6:63)

“And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭7:48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭

“And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:46-47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Water and spirit

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Because of his bloodshed and resurrection the water baptism as an act of faith in his blood has power to remit sins and witness to us that we’ve done what he said to do , to have our sins remitted. It’s his pledge that we can have a good conscience now that our sins are remitted

“The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭3:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

Heaven_Bound

Active member
Dec 29, 2021
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#5
1 Jn 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

On the Cross, when He was pierced, this Verse was fulfilled.
 
Feb 21, 2016
260
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#6
Here's a verse that ties into what you are looking for.

Ephesians 5:26-27
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word.That he might present it to himself a glorious church not having spot,or wrinkle,or any such thing;but that it should be holy and without blemish.

The Verse speaks of the Bible.
 
Feb 21, 2016
260
41
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#7
John 7:38
He that believeth in me,as the scripture hath said.out of his belly shall flow rivers of living waters.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
4,247
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#8
Here's a verse that ties into what you are looking for.

Ephesians 5:26-27
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word.That he might present it to himself a glorious church not having spot,or wrinkle,or any such thing;but that it should be holy and without blemish.

The Verse speaks of the Bible.
of the gospel specifically

“Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
‭‭John‬ ‭15:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,549
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#10
Notice that Jesus only came with water and blood. Thats important. The spirit following (the outpouring of the Holy Ghost on the day of Pentecost and every subsequent outpouring) provides proof that Jesus indeed had both the Water of baptism and the Blood of how he lived (the blood is the LIFE of the creature/individual).

And I realize that could be a controversial explanation in more than one way.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
Jul 24, 2021
275
30
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#11
Please consider from the passage below (I John 5:5-12)

1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
Testimony Concerning the Son of God
1Jn 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1Jn 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
1Jn 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
1Jn 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1Jn 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jn 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Firstly, the theme of this passage is summed up in verse 11: that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and we have eternal life through Him.
So this is the thing that is being borne witness of in verse 8.
Verse 8 says that in the Earth there are three things that bear witness of this: the Spirit, the water, and the blood. The Spirit is God's Holy Spirit living in every believer, and it convinces us that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. The blood is the shed blood of Jesus Christ, which like the blood of Cain, cries unto God from the ground and from the mercy seat where it was spilled (I think).

But what is the water mentioned in verse 8 and how does it bear witness of Jesus Christ and eternal life?

Feel free to use lots of Bible verses and also to challenge anything I have written which seems incorrect to you.
The Spirit, water and blood has to you and the great commission.

Matt 28:19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mark 16:15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

The Spirit of God is poured into us.
Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
John 14:15If ye love me, keep my commandments.16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

The Wisdom of God.
Jeremiah 2:13For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.
John 4:13Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: 14But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Blood of the Redeemer
Isa 1:10Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah. 11To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
John 6:52The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

The Johannine Comma
1 John 5:7 as you have quoted is known as the Johannine comma. It was a modification to Scriptures that should be corrected by all believers of truth. The correct verse is as per Berean Study Bible "For there are three that testify:"
 

Webers.Home

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May 28, 2018
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#12
.
The Koran insists that Jesus didn't die on the cross.

The Women [4.157] . .And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah,
Isa son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did
they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those
who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge
respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure.

But one of the soldiers present at the scene impaled Jesus with a spear.

Since he was somewhat elevated on the cross (it is not said exactly how
high) the soldier's spear point would have entered his body at an upward
angle. The text doesn't say which side was stabbed, but from John's
description, and judging from the intent of the soldier to leave no doubt
about Jesus' death, the heart side was very likely the side they cut into and
the spear point entered just under his rib cage.

The heart is surrounded by a membrane called the pericardium. This
membrane contains a serous matter or liquor resembling water, which acts
as a lubricant to prevent the surface of the heart from becoming chafed by
its continual motion. It was very likely this which was pierced and from
which came the water spoken of by John 19:34.

The point of the spear also seems to have reached one of the ventricles of
the heart, and the blood, yet warm, rushed forth, either mingled with or
followed by the liquor of the pericardium, so as to appear to John to be
blood and water flowing together. Though not medically accurate in our day,
John's calling the serous fluid "water" was accurate enough in his own day.

The mortal injury inflicted on Jesus proves two things: (1) his body was
entirely human, and (2) he did not survive crucifixion.
_
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
3,041
674
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#13
...

But one of the soldiers present at the scene impaled Jesus with a spear.

Since he was somewhat elevated on the cross (it is not said exactly how
high) the soldier's spear point would have entered his body at an upward
angle. The text doesn't say which side was stabbed, but from John's
description, and judging from the intent of the soldier to leave no doubt
about Jesus' death, the heart side was very likely the side they cut into and
the spear point entered just under his rib cage.


The heart is surrounded by a membrane called the pericardium. This
membrane contains a serous matter or liquor resembling water, which acts
as a lubricant to prevent the surface of the heart from becoming chafed by
its continual motion. It was very likely this which was pierced and from
which came the water spoken of by John 19:34.


The point of the spear also seems to have reached one of the ventricles of
the heart, and the blood, yet warm, rushed forth, either mingled with or
followed by the liquor of the pericardium, so as to appear to John to be
blood and water flowing together. Though not medically accurate in our day,
John's calling the serous fluid "water" was accurate enough in his own day.


The mortal injury inflicted on Jesus proves two things: (1) his body was
entirely human, and (2) he did not survive crucifixion.
_
Interesting that Jesus' blood is what makes remission of sin possible, and obedience to water baptism is when a person's sin is remitted. (Luke 3:3, Acts 2:38, 22:16) As such one can conclude that the mixing of blood and water is a picture of a spiritual reality associated with the NT water baptism.
 

Heaven_Bound

Active member
Dec 29, 2021
828
190
43
#14
.
The Koran insists that Jesus didn't die on the cross.

The Women [4.157] . .And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah,
Isa son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did
they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those
who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge
respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure.


But one of the soldiers present at the scene impaled Jesus with a spear.

Since he was somewhat elevated on the cross (it is not said exactly how
high) the soldier's spear point would have entered his body at an upward
angle. The text doesn't say which side was stabbed, but from John's
description, and judging from the intent of the soldier to leave no doubt
about Jesus' death, the heart side was very likely the side they cut into and
the spear point entered just under his rib cage.


The heart is surrounded by a membrane called the pericardium. This
membrane contains a serous matter or liquor resembling water, which acts
as a lubricant to prevent the surface of the heart from becoming chafed by
its continual motion. It was very likely this which was pierced and from
which came the water spoken of by John 19:34.


The point of the spear also seems to have reached one of the ventricles of
the heart, and the blood, yet warm, rushed forth, either mingled with or
followed by the liquor of the pericardium, so as to appear to John to be
blood and water flowing together. Though not medically accurate in our day,
John's calling the serous fluid "water" was accurate enough in his own day.


The mortal injury inflicted on Jesus proves two things: (1) his body was
entirely human, and (2) he did not survive crucifixion.
_
I meet with a few Muslims, these call themselves Followers of Abraham's God, much like the Jews and Christian/Judaens, and have asked for their meaning of this:

The Women [4.157] . .And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah,
Isa son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did
they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those
who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge
respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure.



They claim it means, the God portion/Deity of Christ never died.

I don't think All Muslims think on same terms, but I found it quite interesting this is what those men I meet with claimed.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
16,986
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#15
But what is the water mentioned in verse 8 and how does it bear witness of Jesus Christ and eternal life?
There could be a double application to water. Water is a metaphor for the written Word of God (particularly the Gospel). So the Word of God is a witness and the water of baptism is also a witness.
1Jn 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
This could be a reference to the baptism of Christ Himself, during which the Holy Spirit was the witness to the fact that God the Father called Christ His beloved Son in whom He was well pleased. And Christ shed His blood for the remission of sins, since without the shedding of blood there is no remission.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
4,247
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#16
There could be a double application to water. Water is a metaphor for the written Word of God (particularly the Gospel). So the Word of God is a witness and the water of baptism is also a witness.

This could be a reference to the baptism of Christ Himself, during which the Holy Spirit was the witness to the fact that God the Father called Christ His beloved Son in whom He was well pleased. And Christ shed His blood for the remission of sins, since without the shedding of blood there is no remission.
“This could be a reference to the baptism of Christ Himself, during which the Holy Spirit was the witness to the fact that God the Father called Christ His beloved Son in whom He was well pleased. And Christ shed His blood for the remission of sins, since without the shedding of blood there is no remission”


Amen it definately is

“And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:8‬ ‭KJV‬

This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:6‬ ‭KJV‬

Jesus was baptized in water and shed his blood then we receive the witness of his spirit of truth .
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
3,024
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Oregon
#17
.
John 7:38 . . He that believeth in me, as the scripture hath said. out of his
belly shall flow rivers of living waters.

I strongly suspect that Lbtw's is the best explanation because it ties in very
well with Jesus' discussion with the woman of Samaria

John 4:10-11 . . If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you,
"Give me a drink" you would have asked him, and he would have given you
living water.

Jesus later identified the living water as God's spirit.

John 7:37-39 . . Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus
stood and cried out, saying, "If any man is thirsty, let him come to me and
drink. He who believes in me, as the scripture said, from his innermost
being shall flow rivers of living water. But this he spoke of The Spirit, whom
those who believed in him were to receive.

The Spirit's thoughts are very convincing.

Rom 8:16 . .The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's
children.

NOTE: Mother Teresa complained of experiencing not the slightest glimmer
of the Lord's presence with her for virtually the entire five decades she was
in India; and when it was all over, and she was in the final weeks of life,
Teresa suffered a great deal of anxiety wondering if God even liked her, and
was quite possibly inclined to even condemn her.

In the final analysis; Teresa concluded:

"I feel that God does not want me, that God is not God and that He does not
really exist." (Mother Teresa, Come Be My Light: The Private Writings Of The
Saint Of Calcutta
)

Well; it certainly looks to that the Spirit's testimony was never given to
Teresa or surely both her faith and her confidence would've been much
higher on the Richter scale; so to speak.
_
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
1,645
584
113
#18
Please consider from the passage below (I John 5:5-12)

1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
Testimony Concerning the Son of God
1Jn 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1Jn 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
1Jn 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
1Jn 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1Jn 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jn 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Firstly, the theme of this passage is summed up in verse 11: that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and we have eternal life through Him.
So this is the thing that is being borne witness of in verse 8.
Verse 8 says that in the Earth there are three things that bear witness of this: the Spirit, the water, and the blood. The Spirit is God's Holy Spirit living in every believer, and it convinces us that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. The blood is the shed blood of Jesus Christ, which like the blood of Cain, cries unto God from the ground and from the mercy seat where it was spilled (I think).

But what is the water mentioned in verse 8 and how does it bear witness of Jesus Christ and eternal life?

Feel free to use lots of Bible verses and also to challenge anything I have written which seems incorrect to you.
To me the "water" is obviously the water of baptism.
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
3,024
435
83
Oregon
#19
.
In 1John 5:8, the Spirit and the water appear to be two distinctly different
things; whereas in John 7:37-39 they appear to be one and the same.

It's my guess that the Spirit is the source of the water and that's why they
are tied together in John 7:37-39.

But still: what is this water dispensed by the Spirit?

Well; first off we have to accept that it's not water for bathing, nor laundry,
nor baptizing, nor irrigation. It's strictly for drinking, i.e. a beverage.

And it's not a natural kind of water because if it was, you could go and dip it
out of a river or a pond or lake which of course would be futile because
according to John 4:13 you'd just have to go and do it again 'cause nobody
can get by with just one helping of natural water. You've got drink more later
on or risk death from dehydration

The water is neither collected nor transported in a container; the woman at
the well saw that right away.

So then, we should settle it that the water Jesus spoke of is supernatural,
plus; it's so effective that folk need only one helping of it.

I propose that the water is life; and not just ordinary life, but eternal life. I
also propose paraphrasing John 3:5 like this:

"I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born
of eternal life and the Spirit."

Now I realize that is an unacceptable paraphrase for sincere folk who
honestly believe the water in that passage should be construed to mean
ritual baptism. Well; I'm just proposing, not insisting; but at the same time
feel compelled to point out that of the four gospels; John's is where eternal
life is emphasized the most; it's a recurring theme.

How crucial is the possession and/or the non possession of eternal life? Well
according to 1John 5:11-12, people lacking eternal life are also lacking God's
son, i.e. they are quite christless; which can't be a good thing.
_
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
6,613
2,079
113
#20
We shouldn't be guessing about how God uses the symbol of water, we need to know the facts and the facts are in scripture. If you have a concordance and a printer, print off every mention of water, especially in the old testament when God set up the symbol.

Over and over, God uses it to cleanse people of their sin, as it is used in baptism. They emerge a new person.