The Sad Lives Of Legalists And Sinless Perfectionists

[Budman]

The Christian world is obsessed with sin. It's all we talk about. Most of our preaching and teaching is directed toward getting people to quit sinning. To use the analogy of the starving man, most Christian teaching is like a person following a starving man around saying, "You stay out of the garbage! Do you hear me? Don't eat the garbage!" Look, when you're truly hungry, you'll eat anything - even garbage.

But I promise you: If you get that man into the cafeteria line, and he begins experiencing what real food is like, he won't be nostalgically dreaming about the garbage out back.

But here is what legalists and sinless perfectionists do: They claim to offer believers good food, but in fact, point them back to garbage, and then condemn them for eating it. They place people back under the yoke of the Law through a works-righteousness religion. To them, it is performance that counts. How you live your life.

But think about this: If merely shaping up our actions were what God desired, then the Pharisees would have been His favorites!

Those type of Christians are better known for what they are against than for what they are for. The meanest, most unloving people on earth are legalists. And like the Pharisees, they are capable of feeling extremely righteous even in the act of stabbing a brother in the back.

People are attracted to Christ by the message of His total love and acceptance and of salvation by grace; then, once they're in the family of God, legalists/sinless perfectionists swoop down and level the believer with demands of performance and conformity. But the Bible says you can't have it both ways.

"And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace." (Romans 11:6)

Legalists love to claim that works and the Law are separate things - but they are not. Both the Law and works are a means to gain the acceptance of God through performance. A standard of living.

Law/works are the realm of what you earn. Grace is the realm of receiving a free gift. How could you ever mingle the two? You can't work for a gift, or it's not a gift. Even a payment of $1 takes it out of the realm of a gift. A gift is not a gift unless it is totally free.

Because of the mingling of Law and grace, multitudes of Christians are living in daily fear, frustration, and guilt. Believing that God is far away in disapproval, they are never free to discover Christ living in and through them.

We look into the mirror of the Law and see that we are lawbreakers and therefore under it's curse. Desperately we cry out to God, "How can I be saved?' and the answer comes: "Believe in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved." Once we have come to this point, what further role does the Law have in our lives? NONE! It has done it's job! Its purpose was to drive us to Christ, and it has done so.

"Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the Law." (Galatians 3:25)

Under the Law 'the wages of sin is death' (Romans 6:23); but 'There is therefore now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus' (Romans 8:1)

That's one reason why the commands in the New Testament are not laws. The second reason is that we are not obeying those New Testament commands in order to be accepted by God. Under Law, a man works to be accepted by God. Under grace, a man serves because he is already accepted by God.

The legalist will always say that an emphasis on grace will lead to more sinning. But that's not what the Bible says:

"For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It [the grace of God] teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope - the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ." (Titus 2:11-13)

The grace and love of God is the true motivation for the Christian life.

Legalists who believe that God likes them when they are good, but hammers them when they are bad, in turn, treat other people the exact same way!

If you have ever wondered why Christians' lives and morality often don't rise above the world's level, that is the reason.

Aside from God's unconditional love and acceptance, we have little power or motivation for true obedience. We must first receive God's unconditional love and acceptance for us, before we will ever learn to love Him in return. "We love Him because He first loved us." (1 John 4:19)

It is that message that transforms hearts and lives - not one of endless rules, regulations, and performance. Those who try to live according to the legalist standard will discover that real, abundant life is not found there - in fact, he will probably be even more miserable than when he was lost.

The legalist is like a Cop. He isn't interested in why you were speeding; he doesn't care whether or not you did it on purpose; nor is he interested in hearing about all the other days that you did abide by the law. All he knows is that you broke the law, and here is your penalty.

The attitude of those who live by the Law is anger and indignation, and the goal is justice via punishment; The attitude of those who live by grace is love, and their goal is the benefit and development of the person.

Legalists/sinless perfectionists are never humble. They are proud and arrogant. Quick to condemn, slow in showing mercy.

That's why grace is only available to the humble. Because only the humble will receive it. The humble will always find God to be gracious and compassionate. He will open the floodgates of His love to any man, woman, boy, or girl who comes to Him in humble faith. - Bob George

 

[Magenta]

Thank you, Budman

 

[sassylady]

If one concentrates on Jesus there would be no desire to sin.

 

[Willie-T]

If one concentrates on Jesus there would be no desire to sin.

Yes. At our congregation, they are more about loving others than anything else.

 

[sydlit]

Yes. This is the kind of jntelligent commentary l was hoping to find iwhen I came to CC, along with Genuine friendship /fellowship. Thanks for reminding me why im here...to learn of my Savior, and grow in grace, and find likeminded believers to pray and praise with. Im tired of never feeling im good enough to fit in with the body of Christ, and trying to fit into clicks where im not truly accepted for who I am, just a sinner saved by the grace of God, through the faith that He gave me to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. (accepted maybe by words, but not truly in practice). And as I type I sense the lil legalist in me coming out. May it be buried with the old man. Newness to life for me means forgiving others as God forgives me, (among other things), and though not easy, its Only possible by the grace of God, and not through legalism, and I thank you for that reminder as well.Peace.

 

[Blain]

And in those last days love will wax cold.....

sadly yes the perfectionists and legalists have it in their minds that they and they alone know the narrow way and that they follow it completely, you can get one to say they stumble but they won't admit they sin because if they did their entire agenda crumbles. God is far more interested in the heart of the believer not how well they don't sin and because these two groups do not understand this they have no idea who God really is they cannot peek into his heart and see what it is he truly desires how he sees his children how he feels what he goes through every day.

I care little to nothing about how well I don't sin my eyes and heart are on him alone and sin has no power over me anymore unless I let it. Even if we sin even if we fall down we stumble we screw up this is not what matters this is not what decides who we are as Christians or as children of God. What matters and what decides this is if we have the strength to keep getting back up and to keep moving forward with our eyes and hearts set on him not our failings or sins nor our weakness

 

[Budman]

And in those last days love will wax cold.....

sadly yes the perfectionists and legalists have it in their minds that they and they alone know the narrow way and that they follow it completely, you can get one to say they stumble but they won't admit they sin because if they did their entire agenda crumbles. God is far more interested in the heart of the believer not how well they don't sin and because these two groups do not understand this they have no idea who God really is they cannot peek into his heart and see what it is he truly desires how he sees his children how he feels what he goes through every day.

I care little to nothing about how well I don't sin my eyes and heart are on him alone and sin has no power over me anymore unless I let it. Even if we sin even if we fall down we stumble we screw up this is not what matters this is not what decides who we are as Christians or as children of God. What matters and what decides this is if we have the strength to keep getting back up and to keep moving forward with our eyes and hearts set on him not our failings or sins nor our weakness

Amen!

Thank-you for that encouraging post!

 

[Budman]

Yes. This is the kind of jntelligent commentary l was hoping to find iwhen I came to CC, along with Genuine friendship /fellowship. Thanks for reminding me why im here...to learn of my Savior, and grow in grace, and find likeminded believers to pray and praise with. Im tired of never feeling im good enough to fit in with the body of Christ, and trying to fit into clicks where im not truly accepted for who I am, just a sinner saved by the grace of God, through the faith that He gave me to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. (accepted maybe by words, but not truly in practice). And as I type I sense the lil legalist in me coming out. May it be buried with the old man. Newness to life for me means forgiving others as God forgives me, (among other things), and though not easy, its Only possible by the grace of God, and not through legalism, and I thank you for that reminder as well.Peace.

Thank-you, and many blessings!

 

[p_rehbein]

Much thanks to the Author of the OP.Because of the wisdom contained in the OP, I can now tear out the following passages of Scripture from my Bible, for they are not worthy of being in the Holy Word of God.

Matthew 7:3 .) And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 .) Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 .) Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye………
20 .) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 .) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

John 14: 12 .) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
13 .) And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 .) If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15.) If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Ephesians 2: 8 .) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 .) Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 .) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

James 2:14 .) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 .) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 .) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 .) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 .) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 .) Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 .) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 .) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 .) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 .) And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 .) Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 .) Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 .) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Matthew 25: 31 .) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 .) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 .) And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 .) Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 .) For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 .) Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 .) Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 .) When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 .) Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 .) And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

2 Corinthians 5:9 .) Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 .) For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

1 Corinthians
3​

1 .) And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 .) I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 .) For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
4 .) For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
5 .) Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6 .) I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 .) So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
8 .) Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9 .) For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
10 .) According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 .) For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Revelation 22:10 .) And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
11 .) He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 .) And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 .) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14 .) Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 .) For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
16 .) I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

 

[mailmandan]

Legalists/sinless perfectionists are never humble. They are proud and arrogant. Quick to condemn, slow in showing mercy.

Legalists/sinless perfectionists are self righteous and love to make themselves feel special and exalted above the rest.

That's why grace is only available to the humble. Because only the humble will receive it. The humble will always find God to be gracious and compassionate. He will open the floodgates of His love to any man, woman, boy, or girl who comes to Him in humble faith. - Bob George

Amen! James 4:6 - "God resists the ground, but gives grace to the humble."

 

[wattie]

Much thanks to the Author of the OP.Because of the wisdom contained in the OP, I can now tear out the following passages of Scripture from my Bible, for they are not worthy of being in the Holy Word of God.

Matthew 7:3 .) And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 .) Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 .) Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye………
20 .) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 .) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

John 14: 12 .) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
13 .) And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 .) If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15.) If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Ephesians 2: 8 .) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 .) Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 .) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

James 2:14 .) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 .) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 .) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 .) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 .) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 .) Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 .) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 .) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 .) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 .) And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 .) Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 .) Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 .) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Matthew 25: 31 .) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 .) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 .) And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 .) Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 .) For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 .) Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 .) Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 .) When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 .) Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 .) And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

2 Corinthians 5:9 .) Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 .) For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

1 Corinthians
3​

1 .) And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 .) I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 .) For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
4 .) For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
5 .) Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6 .) I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 .) So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
8 .) Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9 .) For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
10 .) According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 .) For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Revelation 22:10 .) And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
11 .) He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 .) And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 .) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14 .) Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 .) For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
16 .) I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Some questions:
In James: faith without works is dead- what faith is James referring to? It is not eternal salvation being discussed.

Corinthians: remember this is addressed to a local body, a church.

Revelation: there are different judgements for unsaved and saved. Saved- receive rewards in heaven. Some saved are unfaithful. They get less reward. But are in heaven.

You have these verses without context

 

[p_rehbein]

Some questions:
In James: faith without works is dead- what faith is James referring to? It is not eternal salvation being discussed.

Corinthians: remember this is addressed to a local body, a church.

Revelation: there are different judgements for unsaved and saved. Saved- receive rewards in heaven. Some saved are unfaithful. They get less reward. But are in heaven.

You have these verses without context

You are entitled to your opinion..........

 

[Budman]

you proved my point, p_rehbein.

 

[convallaria]

you proved my point, p_rehbein.

Yes there are two kinds of works: those that do not lead to salvation, and those that follow salvation. I have been troubled by the same thing that was your observation in the original post, that many are pre-occupied with pointing out everyone else's sin...(besides their own)...whereas if they had personally experienced the grace of God they would know that our hopelessness without Jesus is universal, and that knowing this is the one thing that enables us to come to Him, accepting His personal invitation. Jesus said I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance....which means that those that think they are already righteous without Jesus can have no part with Him.
If we compel others to repent without believing on the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation, they are no better off than when they started: pretty soon they will fall away from what they thought they had, because they had not understood that the provision of God through His grace was the open door to "whosoever"....and to the power that could truly help them, faith being the key.

Legalists work very hard to achieve salvation, and it infuriates them that we might receive by grace through faith that which they seek through works...they feel they are more entitled, and that we have done nothing at all to earn this blessedness...which of course we haven't!

Anger and jealousy fuel their attacks, but we are comforted that Paul recognized this process as follows:
Gal 4:
[SUP]29[/SUP] But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Even so, it is NOW.

 

[Willie-T]

Pigheadednesss isn't limited to one side

Our preacher constantly warns us about getting cocky and judgmental just because we are convinced we know the truth.

 

[convallaria]

Pigheadednesss isn't limited to one side

Our preacher constantly warns us about getting cocky and judgmental just because we are convinced we know the truth.

Works lead to cockiness while grace gives us confidence in Christ, and not in ourselves. We are the circumcision who worship God in the Spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. The Holy Spirit also gives us boldness to speak as we are led. If others want to misinterpret confidence in Christ, or Holy Spirit boldness, as cockiness or pigheadedness... that is their problem.

 

[p_rehbein]

you proved my point, p_rehbein.

Well, not exactly.........your OP is FULL of HATE SPEACH...........which is not REALLY a REFLECTION of GRACE is it? Not exactly a shining example of either the Lord God, or Jesus Christ is it?

You said:

Legalists love to claim that works and the Law are separate things - but they are not. Both the Law and works are a means to gain the acceptance of God through performance. A standard of living.

Law/works are the realm of what you earn. Grace is the realm of receiving a free gift. How could you ever mingle the two? You can't work for a gift, or it's not a gift. Even a payment of $1 takes it out of the realm of a gift. A gift is not a gift unless it is totally free.

Clearly you do not understand how "works" are a "fruit of salvation." And you must not have understood the Scriptures I cited. Else you would not think I had proven your point. We are ALL SAVED FOR A PURPOSE. FOR WHAT GOD HAS PURPOSED US FOR.

You said:
Because of the mingling of Law and grace, multitudes of Christians are living in daily fear, frustration, and guilt. Believing that God is far away in disapproval, they are never free to discover Christ living in and through them.


Please post the actual source to verify your claim above. Otherwise it is simply speculative speech designed to berate others.


You said:

The legalist will always say that an emphasis on grace will lead to more sinning. But that's not what the Bible says:


I have not heard anyone say this. Please quote your source for this assertion. Or is it just more speculative speech?

You said:

Legalists/sinless perfectionists are never humble. They are proud and arrogant. Quick to condemn, slow in showing mercy.


Maybe they are just following the example you set? I mean, this OP is running over with mercy.............and grace


That's why grace is only available to the humble. Because only the humble will receive it. The humble will always find God to be gracious and compassionate. He will open the floodgates of His love to any man, woman, boy, or girl who comes to Him in humble faith. - Bob George

Oh please point out the Christian humility in the OP. I truly want to read it. This OP is running over with pride, arrogance, hate speech, and a complete lack of Christian humility.


As for me..........I'll go with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.........and stay far from such as you who profess Christian love and humility............and live a far different life.

 

[p_rehbein]

Works lead to cockiness while grace gives us confidence in Christ, and not in ourselves. We are the circumcision who worship God in the Spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. The Holy Spirit also gives us boldness to speak as we are led. If others want to misinterpret confidence in Christ, or Holy Spirit boldness, as cockiness or pigheadedness... that is their problem.

So I guess the Apostle was teaching "cockiness" when he wrote this?

Ephesians 2: 8 .) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 .) Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 .) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[p_rehbein]

Just a suggestion here....................

Those who profess Grace only........need to dial back the hate speech, otherwise they will be turning off just as many potential believers as those who profess the Law.

Not sure how hate speech reflects Grace.............nor the love of God.......

They might also want to come to some understanding of what the "fruit of salvation" is. That being the "good works" all believers are purposed to do. The reason believers are given "gifts" by the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit is so that they are able to complete the good works they are purposed for.

But, I suspect there is no real chance of any of this..............the hate speech will carry on.........and both sides will be guilty of turning off someone...........

 

[Galahad]

So I guess the Apostle was teaching "cockiness" when he wrote this?

Ephesians 2: 8 .) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 .) Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 .) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

True. Very true indeed. We are to walk in good works. Created to live according to a certain standard. Not that we can be sinless, but by our love and faith we not only want to live up to that standard, but we rejoice in so doing.