For those who say they were saved before they spoke in tongues....

ladylynn · Aug 9, 2015

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Some Bible verses to look at as to why that the gifts have not ceased when the Bible was completed.

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But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.Note 28 at 1Co 13:10: Some people have interpreted the "that which is perfect" in this verse as being the completed Bible. This has led them to believe that the gifts of the Spirit spoken of here (i.e., prophecy and tongues) have ceased. Although God's Word is perfect (Ps 19:7), that cannot be the "perfect thing" that is spoken of here.In 1Co 13:12, Paul said when that which is perfect is come, we shall see face to face. This is speaking of seeing the Lord face to face, instead of vaguely as though through a dark glass, as it is now. Some might argue that this is speaking in a symbolic sense instead of literally face to face, but the next comparison in that verse says that then (when that which is perfect is come) we shall know all things even as we are also known. There is no other way to interpret that except to be describing when we stand before the Lord after this life. Then we will be face to face and know all things even as also we are known.1Co 13:8 also says that at the time prophecies fail and tongues cease, knowledge will vanish away. That has to be talking about the next life, or the new heavens and earth, because one of the signs of the end times will be that knowledge shall increase (Da 12:4).So, the "that which is perfect" that Paul was speaking of cannot be the Bible. It has to be speaking of either our glorified bodies or Jesus at His second coming. Either way, these verses establish that until that which is perfect is come, tongues and prophecy will remain. These are valid gifts today.Note 29 at 1Co 13:10: Paul was speaking about the gifts of the Spirit, specifically prophecy and tongues. They will pass away in the new heaven and the new earth (Re 21). We will not need them.

Gr8grace · Aug 9, 2015

ladylynn said:

That which is perfect................cannot be our glorification or the Lord Jesus Christ.

Perfect is in the neuter gender..............A thing.

We are clothed in humiliation(feminine Gender)and will then be clothed in Glory(Feminine gender)

Phil 3:21~~New American Standard Bible
who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

If it was our glorification or perfection. "perfect" would be in the feminine gender.

And "perfect" is without a question NOT the Lord Jesus Christ. He is always referred to in the masculine gender.

convallaria · Aug 10, 2015

SUMMARY
OK so now we can reflect on what we have learned during the course of this discussion on this thread and the others.
We know that the gifts of God including tongues have not ceased. We know also that tongues are not essential to salvation. We also know, however, that the Holy Spirit IS essential to salvation, because as the scripture says, he who has not the Spirit of Christ is none of His. Also John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Ok so what remains is to establish evidence on here BESIDES speaking in tongues, according to the scriptures, particularly those in Mark 16 (casting out demons, healing the sick, raising the dead etc.,) and those 9 gifts in 1 Corinthians 12 as follows:

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
We also know that another sure sign of the Holy Spirit indwelling is some evidence of the fruit of the Spirit, as in Galatians 5: 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I feel it is significant that those who attacked some of us for speaking in tongues have so far been unable to demonstrate either the fruit of the Spirit as above, or to testify of the gifts of the Spirit given to them by God at some point after conversion.
Now, please tell me, am I wrong to conclude that the tongue-haters, on this basis, are not born again? Because if this is the case, the broad church membership is in a very sorry state.

ladylynn · Aug 10, 2015

Gr8grace said:

I disagree with you on this for good reason. And not "only" because my prefered Bible commentary disagrees with yours... and in such matters, the meanings of the Bible verses will take on very different meanings. As follows.... (and please read and be blessed)

1 Corinthians 13:8-10

These verses state that there will come a time when prophecies will cease, tongues will cease, and knowledge will vanish away. Certainly, that time will certainly come—but when? Opponents of speaking in tongues believe it has already come. They cite the verse that says “when that which is perfect is come” and believe that the Bible is what is being spoken of. Therefore, they conclude, prophecies and tongues have passed away.
The Bible is perfect, but I don’t believe the Apostle Paul is talking about the Bible in this passage of Scripture. The same passage also says that when tongues and prophecies cease, knowledge will vanish away—but knowledge hasn’t vanished away. As a matter of fact, there is a prophecy in the Old Testament that says that knowledge will increase in the end times (Daniel 12:4). Today, you can look around and see that there is an exponential increase of knowledge in the world. The cumulative knowledge of mankind regarding the universe, biology, and technology is growing at a tremendous pace, so clearly knowledge hasn’t ceased yet.
Not only does this Scripture from 1 Corinthians say that knowledge will cease after that “which is perfect” has come, it also says that we will see God face to face:

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

1 Corinthians 13:11-12

Now we see dimly, as through a dark glass, but then (when that which is perfect has come) we will see clearly, face to face. Obviously, we have not come to see God face to face yet. I’m not saying that God couldn’t appear to someone, but this is a blanket statement that applies to everyone seeing Him face to face. It’s talking about the second return of the Lord, or our gathering together unto Him. When we see the Lord face to face is when “that which is perfect is come.”

The Scripture also says that when "that which is perfect" has come, we shall know even as we are known. God knows us perfectly, but we certainly don’t know everything perfectly right now.

The things that these verses state will happen at the same time that prophecies and tongues vanish haven’t happened yet. Knowledge hasn’t passed away, we haven’t seen God face to face, and we don’t know everything perfectly the way we will in eternity. You can’t just use these verses to say that speaking in tongues has passed away and ignore everything else that is supposed to happen at the same time. It is obvious that the “that which is perfect” which is being spoken of here has not yet come to pass.

I believe the “that which is perfect” being referred to is our glorified body. Praying in tongues helps us only as long as we are in this physical body and have the limitation of a mind that is not completely renewed. Your spirit is praying when you speak in tongues, and the Holy Spirit can pray through you (Romans 8:26). You are speaking mysteries in the spirit and edifying yourself (1 Corinthians 14:2, 4). Speaking in tongues bypasses the unbelief that is in your brain, and allows you to talk directly to God. It is powerful, but it’s only for this life.

When we receive our glorified bodies, we won’t have the infirmity of not knowing. At that time, we will know all things, even as we are known. We will know how to pray perfectly. We will see God face to face, and we won’t need to speak in tongues anymore. But until our glorified bodies come and our minds are completely renewed, we need the gifts of the Holy Spirit. We need the presence and the power of the Holy Spirit in our lives, specifically the power of speaking in tongues.

Anyone who has been born again but doesn’t have the power of the Holy Spirit needs to receive it. You can’t live the life that God intends for you to live without the baptism of the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues; this is the power to live the Christian life. There is a lot about praying in tongues that I can’t cover in this short synopsis, but I guarantee that the baptism of the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues will produce a radical change in your relationship with God. The Word of God will come alive, and you will begin to see and understand things you never noticed before. You need this ability.

The good news is that God wants you to have the baptism of the Holy Spirit and to speak in tongues even more than you want it. Jesus said,

If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a f ish, will he for a f ish give him a serpent? Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Luke 11:11-13

Some people teach that you can’t have any sin in your life or God won’t fill you with the Holy Spirit. They think that God won’t fill a dirty vessel. I want you to know that God doesn’t have any other kind of vessel to fill! If we could be perfect without the Holy Spirit, we wouldn’t need Him. The very fact that you aren’t perfect makes you a candidate to be filled with the Holy Spirit. It is God’s will for every born-again believer to be filled with the Holy Spirit and to speak in tongues. He created you to fill with His Spirit, so there is no way He isn’t going to do it when you ask. The only requirement for receiving the Holy Spirit is to be born again. Jesus is the one who baptizes us in the Holy Spirit, so if you haven’t received the Giver, you can’t receive the Gift.

One of the things that kept me from speaking in tongues right away when I was baptized in the Holy Spirit was that I didn’t understand that I had to do the speaking. The Holy Spirit inspires you, but you have to do the talking:

And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 2:4

Just as God doesn’t make people receive salvation, He isn’t going to make you speak in tongues. God doesn’t take over people’s bodies, so you're going to have to initiate the use of your voice to start and stop speaking. You can’t just open your mouth and wait for sound to come out.

As you begin to utter the words the Holy Spirit is inspiring you to speak, the words will come more and more easily. You won’t understand what you are saying because the natural mind can’t understand the things of the spirit (1 Corinthians 2:14), but you can pray for an interpretation (1 Corinthians 14:13). Receiving an interpretation doesn’t mean that you’ll get a word-forword translation of everything you have said in tongues. It could mean that you’ll pray in tongues today, and sometime in the near future God will give you a word of knowledge or wisdom. The only time that an interpretation is required immediately is when someone speaks in tongues during a church service. It isn’t necessary when you are praying in tongues privately.

Speaking in tongues builds up your faith and draws out the power and knowledge that is in your spirit. If you recognize that you need this gift and you have already been born again, all you have to do is ask God and He will give it to you:

Father, I thank You that I am the temple of the Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit, I welcome You to fill me right now. Thank You for filling me with Your presence.

Sometimes people feel something when they are filled with the Holy Spirit, sometimes not. When I received the Holy Spirit I didn’t feel a thing, but I got Him. Regardless of whether you felt anything or not, begin to speak in tongues by faith. Open your mouth and utter the words that the Holy Spirit is inspiring within you.

Make praying in tongues a regular practice and you will begin to see the supernatural power of God manifesting in your life!

3Scoreand10 · Aug 10, 2015

convallaria said:

SUMMARY
OK so now we can reflect on what we have learned during the course of this discussion on this thread and the others.
We know that the gifts of God including tongues have not ceased. We know also that tongues are not essential to salvation. We also know, however, that the Holy Spirit IS essential to salvation, because as the scripture says, he who has not the Spirit of Christ is none of His. Also John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Ok so what remains is to establish evidence on here BESIDES speaking in tongues, according to the scriptures, particularly those in Mark 16 (casting out demons, healing the sick, raising the dead etc.,) and those 9 gifts in 1 Corinthians 12 as follows:

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
We also know that another sure sign of the Holy Spirit indwelling is some evidence of the fruit of the Spirit, as in Galatians 5: 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I feel it is significant that those who attacked some of us for speaking in tongues have so far been unable to demonstrate either the fruit of the Spirit as above, or to testify of the gifts of the Spirit given to them by God at some point after conversion.
Now, please tell me, am I wrong to conclude that the tongue-haters, on this basis, are not born again? Because if this is the case, the broad church membership is in a very sorry state.

And your ignorance of the Word amazes me!

ladylynn · Aug 10, 2015

3Scoreand10 said:

Just because people disagree with you, it is in no way because they are ignorant of the Word. It is quite possible....that they simply don't agree with you. (shocking but possible) yup! As a matter of fact., I don't always agree with you either. As a matter of fact, more often than not. And especially when you post like this!

WoundedWarrior · Aug 11, 2015

3Scoreand10 said:

Your ignorance of common decency toward fellow Believers amazes me.

Either, get out of here with your negative 1-liner, empty, hate-filled, good-for-nothing opinions,

-or-

put on your 71-year-old BIG BOY PANTS and show us that there's more to you than your ability to cause destruction.

Sincerely,
-WW

WoundedWarrior · Aug 11, 2015

convallaria said:

My sincerest thanks for this summary, Convallaria! I appreciate your continued enthusiasm, sincerity, and thoroughness despite the negative setbacks from a few people.

I wanted to share my general thoughts on this:

convallaria said:

To be blunt: You're wrong in this conclusion. I say this for two primary reasons: 1. It is never our place to make a judgement-call concerning someone's salvation (or relationship with/to Christ) and 2. It seems that (most of) these people were reacting to the Original Post (some confused you with the OP's author, some also misunderstood your response(s) as supporting the OP's position).

Now I, like you, do believe that it is significant to observe the conduct of these "tongue haters" -- and, rather than return rudeness with rudeness or negativity with negativity or destructive words with destructive words: What positive lesson can we learn from our interactions with these people?

Perhaps we learn nothing from these "tongue haters" -- if that is the case, at minimum, be encouraged; I, for one, can easily see that you display compassion (which includes love, kindness, gentleness, goodness, peace)! Though it may have been challenged a few times, you display patience and self-control! You have been faithful and it is evident that Christ is the source of your joy. Now be at peace and trust that God will handle the tongue-haters!

phil112 · Aug 11, 2015

WoundedWarrior said:

There are churches and people that practice and accept homosexuality that aren't saved, tho they claim to be. I'm telling you, I'm making a judgement call, that they do not have a walk with Christ. They claim to have salvation, and my bible tells me to judge, to try the spirits, to factually observe that they do not have salvation.
If we don't make that judgement then we risk falling for it ourselves and/or persuading others that it is really okay.
You people need to study your bibles. I see so much more nonsense passed off as God's word, or actions that He approves of that are simply inane, than I have ever seen in my life.
This board is getting so far away from being a bible room it's going to have to change its name.

WoundedWarrior · Aug 11, 2015

phil112 said:

Phil continues to have nothing positive to add to any discussion. I really feel bad for you, Phil, it must really stink -- always having a negative, grumpy attitude towards others.

Hey, look -- I can post a bunch of scripture references which support what I have said, as well:

Matthew 7:1-5 ESV

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

Luke 6:37 ESV

“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;

John 7:24 ESV

Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”

James 4:11-12 ESV

Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

James 4:12 ESV

There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

Romans 2:1-3 ESV

Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God?

Ephesians 4:29 ESV

Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.

As for your "churches of homosexuality", Phil, we're not discussing churches that are condoning sin -- no, we're discussing the GIFT OF TONGUES. Some folks have implied that speaking in tongues is actually not a gift at all -- but an outdated practice that no longer genuinely occurs. That's what we're discussing, Phil.

What's your purpose, Phil? So far, all I have seen from you is similar to this post; you begin by making a personally offensive statement toward someone on one of these threads, you continue by stating that their comments are crazy and you think they "need to read their Bible" -- not once, have I seen you edify someone with your words.

I do not understand, how someone can claim that the genuine gift (from the Spirit) of speaking in tongues is nonsense.

The only nonsense here (besides the OP) is people like Phil -- who speak their opinions without supporting their statements, who make accusations and assumptions based on misunderstandings.

I have been straight-forward with you, Phil. I have even PM'd you once. You have not once responded to any of my rebuttals or defenses -- but you continue to quote me, while spewing your venom. You've dug quite the hole, Phil -- do you care to climb out?

convallaria · Aug 11, 2015

WoundedWarrior said:

Thank you WW for what you said here, that comforts me more than you know. I am not happy with the conclusion I was beginning to draw, being the recipient with others of some unkind attacks, but I am willing to stare an uncomfortable truth in the face if that is what it is, that many despite their apparent Christian allegiance are not in fact born again. I would rather have an uncomfortable truth than a cosy lie any day of the week.

However, I will take your assurance that I have this wrong with grateful thanks: far better to trust that the Lord will deal with this, and that He has His hand on each and every person who names His name, calling them by His Spirit into a greater experience and knowledge of His awesome truth.

I will sleep better tonight: thank you.

Eva1218 · Aug 11, 2015

Acts 16:30-31. To be Saved
1 Corithians All Spiritual Gifts are important, but it is better that the church be edified.

Those of old prior to the Gift of tongues that have walked with GOD, are Saved.
Speaking in tongue is not a way to Salvation, it is a Gift from GOD as all other Gifts.
It is not what we do that gives us a way into the Kingdom, but what CHRIST JESUS has done.

Blessings!!!!!!!

WoundedWarrior · Aug 11, 2015

Eva1218 said:

Just wanted to make sure everyone saw this.

3Scoreand10 · Aug 11, 2015

WoundedWarrior said:

Ignorance is common among all men.
Ignorance can be corrected with study.
Convallaria made the statement that those who oppose her view are not saved.
To make such a judgement and statement is evidence of ignorance of the Word of God.
ONLY GOD and the individual can know who is saved and not saved.
I know that I have eternal life and I pray that everyone on CC has the same assurance.
If I offended any of you I am sorry. But from time to time we all show are ignorance by opening our mouth.
I know I am guilty.

Risen2014 · Aug 11, 2015

Be-careful to allow your mouth to be an instrument of noble purpose.
It is with your mouth that you confess and are saved (Romans 10:10). The fact is that our confession releases God's will, words, and purposes in the earth. "confess it and possess it," "name it and claim it," and "blab it and grab it" Often, if we do not confess it, we will not possess it. I had rather confess it and possess it than not confess it and not possess it.

Follow this logic:

We were created in God's image; that is, we are spirit beings who can talk, unlike other living creatures.
When God speaks, things are created. "(God) calleth those things which be not as though they were" (Romans 4:17, KJV).
In Ephesians 5:1, Paul says, "Be imitators of God."

If we are created in God's image as spirit beings who can speak, and we are; and if God calls things that be not as though they were, and He does; and we are commanded to be imitators of God, as we are; then by the known will of God we can also call things that be not as though they were, as long as we are speaking His words and are aligned with His will. That does not mean we can arbitrarily decide we want a new Mercedes automobile or anything else material and we can confess it into being unless it is God's will for us. But if it is His will for us, we may not get it unless we confess it, and we may miss it if we continually confess lack!

Confession is nothing more or less than agreeing with God and saying what He says. He has spoken in His Word, and we agree with what He has already said, then we speak His Word.
James 3:10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
[h=1]Proverbs 18:19(KJV) 19 A brother offended is harder to be won than a strong city: and their contentions are like the bars of a castle.[/h]It is written: "I believed; therefore I have spoken." With that same spirit of faith we also believe and therefore speak (2 Corinthians 4:13)
You are snared by the words of your mouth (Proverbs 6:2, NKJV).

For by your words you shall be justified, and by your words you shall be condemned (Matthew 12:37, NASB).

A man has joy by the answer of his mouth (Proverbs 15:23). (Do you want joy? You can speak it out of your mouth.)

convallaria · Aug 12, 2015

3Scoreand10 said:

"Convallaria made the statement that those who oppose her view are not saved."

That is a lie.

God's view is that those who have not the Spirit of Christ are "none of His": I said that.

3Scoreand10 · Aug 12, 2015

convallaria said:

If I understood you right, You believe having the Spirit of Christ with speaking in tongues, therefore those who do not speak in tongues do not have the Spirit of Christ and are therefore not saved.
I do not believe the Word of God teaches this.
If I misunderstand what you said and offended you I am sorry. It was not my intention.

Do you believe that speaking in tongues is necessary for salvation?

WoundedWarrior · Aug 12, 2015

Firstly, my intention is to assist in eliminating communication errors and misunderstandings. If I have offended anyone, I am sorry! Please address me here or through a PM if you feel I owe you a specific apology.

3Scoreand10 said:

3Score,

My sincerest thanks, to you, for your response above. I fully agree with your statement above except for one point: "Convallaria made the statement that those who oppose her view are not saved." Let's look at exactly what she said:

"Correct me if I am wrong, but I feel it is significant that those who attacked some of us for speaking in tongues have so far been unable to demonstrate either the fruit of the Spirit as above, or to testify of the gifts of the Spirit given to them by God at some point after conversion.
Now, please tell me, am I wrong to conclude that the tongue-haters, on this basis, are not born again?"

So, we can see that she is not saying that those who disagree with her are unsaved, nor is she saying that those who do not speak in tongues are not saved. What she IS saying (or asking) is that those who have attacked her and accused her of things she did not say -- those folks are unsaved. I disagreed with her here: Post #248. For the sake of understanding where we are coming from, 3Score, here is your disagreement and response for comparison: Post #245. Do we see now, how this was perceived as offensive and not helpful (as you did not explain or attempt to edify this woman)?

You have since, clarified:

3Scoreand10 said:

No, she does not -- In fact, she said this directly in the summary post to which you made the (seemingly) offensive reply:

To answer your question, simply re-read her summary post, where she said:

"We know also that tongues are not essential to salvation."

You're not alone in your mistake or misunderstanding of her words, 3Score, several others misunderstood as well: Example.

I hope we're all getting close to the same page now, with no hard feelings.

convallaria · Aug 12, 2015

3Scoreand10 said:

Your apology is accepted.

I believe the Holy Spirit is necessary for salvation since the Bible says the flesh profits nothing, and also that he who has not the Spirit of Christ is NONE of His. If we do not have the Holy Spirit we are still in the flesh, and will perish.

I have stated more than once very clearly that tongues is not necessary for salvation. I have even given testimony more than once that shows I was saved a few years before speaking in tongues.

I really do want you and everyone on here to understand how important this is because as God says, my people perish for lack of knowledge: we all need to know that what God says is true in His word and still stands regarding salvation, and the gifts callings and fruit of the Spirit.

I don't want anyone to perish because of my being negligent to tell them, that Jesus invites all to be fundamentally changed and to become children of God by receiving Him. If we are not willing to be changed and to receive His Spirit, then we are in great danger, and will perish.

ember · Aug 12, 2015

I honestly do not think things are as complicated as some are making it sound

Speaking in tongues saves no one...in fact I know people who speak in tongues who make you wonder if they are saved!

None of the gifts profit anything without being in right relationship with the Giver of those gifts

The gifts were supposed to have been for the edification of the body (of Christ) but it seems nowdays, they are often used to manipulate and the truth is distorted

That, does not erase the truth...it does make discernment to be greatly desired...way too many just accept something because it gave them goosebumps or a temporary high

We know what Paul said regarding these things in chapter 13 of I Corinthians

1If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

Some prefer to believe that the end of this chapter indicates that 3 things have ceased...stating that the Bible fulfills any need for tongues, prophecy and knowledge

Personally, I do not find any reason to believe that is so; in the Bible or in experience...my experience being secondary to the Bible

This debate will go on until it just does not matter anymore...I realize this is a new arguement for some, but for most of us, it is probably causing the eyelids to flutter in boredom

However, and for the record, you do not have to speak in tongues to be saved...the Holy Spirit seals us when we believe

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13

Nothing about speaking in tongues, nothing about works, nothing about being on Mt. Kilimanjaro or the middle of the Arabian desert

For those who say they were saved before they spoke in tongues....

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