Legalism: True Ear Tickling!

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BenFTW

BenFTW

Senior Member
#1
Oct 7, 2012
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#1
What "gospel" could tickle the ears more for the self-righteous than that of Legalism? It give them something to boast in. They at judgement get to look at God in the face and say, "Give me whats mine." They get to rejoice at how they made it to the end, with all their striving and hard work. Jesus passed them the baton and said, "Finish the race!" You better believe they did! Others fell, but they pushed on with perseverance! How valiant and great they are. How great and wonderful their good works of generosity! What pure hearts. Is there any like them?

Romans 4:4King James Version (KJV)

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.


 
wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#2
Feb 24, 2009
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#2
A believer is empowered by what? His own works and self-effort... or reliance on the Holy Spirit?

Surely the flesh is weak.. how does it do anything without the Holy Spirit as the source of strength and not yourself?

I know for myself.. times I have struggled with sin.. it's not been a reliance on the Holy Spirit.. but getting prideful or focussed on my own efforts.

I don't know how the legalist overcomes sin. If it isn't by being driven by the Holy Spirit's grace.. how do they do it?
 
peacefulbeliever

peacefulbeliever

Senior Member
#3
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
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#3
BenFTW said:
What "gospel" could tickle the ears more for the self-righteous than that of Legalism? It give them something to boast in. They at judgement get to look at God in the face and say, "Give me whats mine." They get to rejoice at how they made it to the end, with all their striving and hard work. Jesus passed them the baton and said, "Finish the race!" You better believe they did! Others fell, but they pushed on with perseverance! How valiant and great they are. How great and wonderful their good works of generosity! What pure hearts. Is there any like them?

Romans 4:4King James Version (KJV)

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
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However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. Romans 4:5

In all these threads that have sprung up lately - I shake my head in wonder . . . I wonder does anyone really know what it is to be born of the Spirit? Does anyone understand the implication of "adoption" during the time Romans was written? How precious we are to God as his dear children?

I just don't get it . . . I realize that in my WALK, there are certain things that I should do - for my salvation - NO, for my sanctification, justification - NO and NO but to BLESS ME and bless others . . . We are born again of the Spirit - God and Christ dwell in us via the holy Spirit - Does God take away that divine nature that he birthed in me - that new creation created in me?
 
Joidevivre

Joidevivre

Senior Member
#4
Jul 15, 2014
3,838
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#4
The legalist is self centered. The person who has God's heart is the one who ONLY looks at Him, who trusts His mercy and His power to transform a heart. Who does not worry about the times he falls short - knowing that it will be used as a learning experience, and he is totally forgiven.

The legalist will never fully understand mercy. To that person, mercy is earned. And will always be unable to extend true mercy to others because he has never felt it for himself.

If you know of such a person, pray that they will so feel the love of God for them in even their worst state that their heart will melt, and it will no longer be about them anymore.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#5
#5
peacefulbeliever said:
However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. Romans 4:5

In all these threads that have sprung up lately - I shake my head in wonder . . . I wonder does anyone really know what it is to be born of the Spirit? Does anyone understand the implication of "adoption" during the time Romans was written? How precious we are to God as his dear children?

I just don't get it . . . I realize that in my WALK, there are certain things that I should do - for my salvation - NO, for my sanctification, justification - NO and NO but to BLESS ME and bless others . . . We are born again of the Spirit - God and Christ dwell in us via the holy Spirit - Does God take away that divine nature that he birthed in me - that new creation created in me?
Click to expand...
I know. It's like some think God doesn't really want to save us.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#7
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#7
Abraham believed God and it was put to his account for righteousness.........It is simple....It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe!
 
MarcR

MarcR

Senior Member
#8
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
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#8
While I believe that the first three posts do an excellent Job of putting forth the truth; IMO they all fail to recognize the problem underlying legalism. The problem, as I see it, is that legalists genuinely believe that they are correct; and that belief keeps them from recognizing truth in anything that contradicts their position.



We are IMO told in John 16:8-11
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
KJV

that the role of conviction of error belongs to the Holy Spirit and NOT to us. This is not to suggest that we are not to confront doctrinal error for the sake of the undiscipled. The intent here is to remind ourselves that the Lord has given us work that He seeks to accomplish through us; and the Lord has reserved some tasks to Himself.
 
BenFTW

BenFTW

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#10
Oct 7, 2012
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#10
peacefulbeliever said:
I don't believe that they truly see the difference in this new covenant from the old covenant . . .
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Unfortunately not, to them the Holy Spirit is only an empowerment to enable them to keep the Law that they once couldn't keep. Instead they should realize Jesus imputed His righteousness to them and fulfilled its requirements on their behalf. They do not need to keep "observing" the Law, as they put it.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#11
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#11
BenFTW said:
Unfortunately not, to them the Holy Spirit is only an empowerment to enable them to keep the Law that they once couldn't keep. Instead they should realize Jesus imputed His righteousness to them and fulfilled its requirements on their behalf. They do not need to keep "observing" the Law, as they put it.
Click to expand...
Amen to that for sure.........!
 
peacefulbeliever

peacefulbeliever

Senior Member
#12
Feb 21, 2012
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#12
BenFTW said:
Unfortunately not, to them the Holy Spirit is only an empowerment to enable them to keep the Law that they once couldn't keep. Instead they should realize Jesus imputed His righteousness to them and fulfilled its requirements on their behalf. They do not need to keep "observing" the Law, as they put it.
Click to expand...
There are enough admonitions written to the church on how to love and how to live without adding the 613 Laws which I myself believe were not and are not applicable to the church, the body of Christ. A lot of the "rules and regulations", if you want to put them that way, from the OT are reintroduced in the NT which as I said have to do with our WALK. Just take, for example, Ephesians 4 . . . Lots of good guidance there - we are to mortify the deeds of the flesh, we are to put on the new and put off the old - we are to put away stealing and work for what we have . . . simple everyday stuff - that it may take a lifetime to apply - at least in some areas where we are the weakest!!

Hey, I am even one of those who takes my store "cart" to the cart bin!!! and feel bad if I don't - because I have made it a LAW . . . nope, it is just plain courtesy!
 
BenFTW

BenFTW

Senior Member
#13
Oct 7, 2012
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#13
peacefulbeliever said:
There are enough admonitions written to the church on how to love and how to live without adding the 613 Laws which I myself believe were not and are not applicable to the church, the body of Christ. A lot of the "rules and regulations", if you want to put them that way, from the OT are reintroduced in the NT which as I said have to do with our WALK. Just take, for example, Ephesians 4 . . . Lots of good guidance there - we are to mortify the deeds of the flesh, we are to put on the new and put off the old - we are to put away stealing and work for what we have . . . simple everyday stuff - that it may take a lifetime to apply - at least in some areas where we are the weakest!!

Hey, I am even one of those who takes my store "cart" to the cart bin!!! and feel bad if I don't - because I have made it a LAW . . . nope, it is just plain courtesy!
Click to expand...
How selfish! How else will you give those cart guys job security? :D haha
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#14
#14
peacefulbeliever said:
There are enough admonitions written to the church on how to love and how to live without adding the 613 Laws which I myself believe were not and are not applicable to the church, the body of Christ. A lot of the "rules and regulations", if you want to put them that way, from the OT are reintroduced in the NT which as I said have to do with our WALK. Just take, for example, Ephesians 4 . . . Lots of good guidance there - we are to mortify the deeds of the flesh, we are to put on the new and put off the old - we are to put away stealing and work for what we have . . . simple everyday stuff - that it may take a lifetime to apply - at least in some areas where we are the weakest!!

Hey, I am even one of those who takes my store "cart" to the cart bin!!! and feel bad if I don't - because I have made it a LAW . . . nope, it is just plain courtesy!
Click to expand...
Imperatives and indicatives. Someone counted more than a 1000 imperative verbs in the NT. In legalism they see only the imperatives. But those Imperatives are always based on indicatives. The indicative statements of Christ’s presence and sufficiency are always the foundation for the fulfillment of those imperative action verbs. Christ does not ask anything of us that He is not willing to fulfill in us by faith.

Now I must confess that just today, even though I always return my cart to the cart bin, today I was in a rush, and the bin was far away, so I left it next to my car. I will have to do penance.....:eek:





 
BenFTW

BenFTW

Senior Member
#15
Oct 7, 2012
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#15
FreeNChrist said:
Imperatives and indicatives. Someone counted more than a 1000 imperative verbs in the NT. In legalism they see only the imperatives. But those Imperatives are always based on indicatives. The indicative statements of Christ’s presence and sufficiency are always the foundation for the fulfillment of those imperative action verbs. Christ does not ask anything of us that He is not willing to fulfill in us by faith.

Now I must confess that just today, even though I always return my cart to the cart bin, today I was in a rush, and the bin was far away, so I left it next to my car. I will have to do penance.....:eek:
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I repeat: Job security! :D

What you said reminds me of how we have the commandment to love and yet a fruit of the Spirit is love. Sounds like rest to me.
 
peacefulbeliever

peacefulbeliever

Senior Member
#16
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
63
#16
peacefulbeliever said:
There are enough admonitions written to the church on how to love and how to live without adding the 613 Laws which I myself believe were not and are not applicable to the church, the body of Christ. A lot of the "rules and regulations", if you want to put them that way, from the OT are reintroduced in the NT which as I said have to do with our WALK. Just take, for example, Ephesians 4 . . . Lots of good guidance there - we are to mortify the deeds of the flesh, we are to put on the new and put off the old - we are to put away stealing and work for what we have . . . simple everyday stuff - that it may take a lifetime to apply - at least in some areas where we are the weakest!!

Hey, I am even one of those who takes my store "cart" to the cart bin!!! and feel bad if I don't - because I have made it a LAW . . . nope, it is just plain courtesy!
Click to expand...
And I would like to add that regardless of how well we take heed to these admonitions in our WALK - our sonship remains the same - we don't lose our place in the family.
 
peacefulbeliever

peacefulbeliever

Senior Member
#17
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
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#17
BenFTW said:
How selfish! How else will you give those cart guys job security? :D haha
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Hey don't think I haven't thought about that too!! The way I see it - they still have to pick them up from the "cart areas"!
 
peacefulbeliever

peacefulbeliever

Senior Member
#18
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
63
#18
FreeNChrist said:
Imperatives and indicatives. Someone counted more than a 1000 imperative verbs in the NT. In legalism they see only the imperatives. But those Imperatives are always based on indicatives. The indicative statements of Christ’s presence and sufficiency are always the foundation for the fulfillment of those imperative action verbs. Christ does not ask anything of us that He is not willing to fulfill in us by faith.

Now I must confess that just today, even though I always return my cart to the cart bin, today I was in a rush, and the bin was far away, so I left it next to my car. I will have to do penance.....:eek:
Click to expand...
Shame! Shame! You need to repent and be born again - again!
 
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