Did He, Or Didn't He?

[PeterJens]

You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
James 2:20-24

 

[PeterJens]

You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
John 8:44

 

[thepsalmist]

"No, He shared a true, how can we expect God to forgive us if we are unable to forgive others..

By the way, DO you realize, if forgiving others is a requirement for eternal life. Most people who walked the earth and claim to be Christian will be lost forever.. Because I think we all have someone in our life we have not forgiven.." EG

Dear EG,

my post that you quoted was responding to someone who said that there was no need to ask God for forgiveness because we were already forgiven in Christ.

I asked ... why then did the Lord tell us to pray for forgiveness in our daily prayers if we are already forgiven them?

You say the lords prayer is truth ... good

Jesus also said MATT 6:15 "if you do not forgive others their sins your Father will not forgive your sins"

Do you say that scripture is also truth?

 

[PeterJens]

This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
Matt 26:28

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Jesus paid for sins committed under the old covenant.

And for this cause he is the mediator of the new covenant, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first covenant, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. Hebrews 9:15

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; Romans 3:25

But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. 2 Peter 1:9​

The word translated sins in Romans 3:25 and 2 Peter 1:9 is not the normal word used for sins (αμαρτια, hamartia). The word is ἁμάρτημα (harmatema) which is αμαρτια with the -ma suffix, which means effect. So in effect, ἁμάρτημα (harmatema) means sin effect, or consequence of sin. It is rarely used in the NT (5x), but it is used quite a few times in the LXX. Sin effect is the only meaning that makes sense where is it used in verses like Isaiah 40:2 and Deuteronomy 19:15.

So as I read Romans 3:25 and 2 Peter 1:9, they are saying that those under the old covenant were freed from the consequences of sin under the old covenant, i.e. death or being cut off from the covenant.

Christ's death enacted a new covenant, under which old covenant law with its penalties do not apply. When we sin now, we sin against the light, not against old covenant law.

What we have now is a covenant that guarantees the forgiveness of sins. As we abide in Christ, all sin is forgiven. If we sin, we need to acknowledge such and be cleansed. As it is written

But if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7​

The blood cleanses (present tense), not cleansed (past tense). So IMO anyone who thinks their past, present and future sins were forgiven (cleansed) at the cross is delusional. Sin can't be forgiven before it's committed. Cleansing of sin is in the here-and-now.

 

[FreeNChrist]

1 John 2:12

"I am writing to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of His name."

 

[Grace777x70]

Amen FreenChrist..here is some more to go with your verse..

1 John 2:12 (NASB)

[SUP]12 [/SUP] I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name's sake.

have been forgiven = perfect passive

perfect = The perfect tense expresses perfective action. Perfective action involves a present state which has resulted from a past action. The present state is a continuing state; the past action is a completed action. It is continuously in the present

passive = voice = action is happening to you....you are not doing it

Without a doubt this verse says that the sins are forgiven from a past action that remains in a continuous state and that was put on them....not something they did


Brethren ...we have a great salvation in our Lord!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

If not, wouldn't He have to come back and die again?

No, because the blood, which is proof of his death, abides in heaven.

 

[Grace777x70]

After we come to Christ we have perpetual forgiveness of sins because of Jesus's finished work.

Here are some more scriptures on the forgiveness of God thru the precious blood of our Lord!..

Ephesians 1:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

We have redemption = present continuous action...so this means we have present continuous forgiveness of our sins...and look...that grace stuff shows up again!...it's all according to our loving Father's grace that He has given to us in Christ our Lord.

Colossians 1:13-14 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,
[SUP]14 [/SUP] in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Same thing here too...present continuous action = forgiveness of sins


Redemption!..we have been bought with the precious Blood of Jesus... Let's honor His work!

 

[FreeNChrist]

Confession stops being required, and starts being our desire.

Thats good. I'm totally going to steal that.

 

[Grace777x70]

The Cross of Jesus changed everything as we now are in a New Covenant with better promises and of Jesus' blood which speaks of better things.

 

[Grace777x70]

Amen...in the New Covenant we still confess our sins to our loving Father as we run to Him and trust in Jesus' sacrifice. We just don't confess them "in order to be forgiven"...we believe the gospel of the grace of Christ.

The scriptures are clear and there is a difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant after the cross..

Thats good. I'm totally going to steal that.

 

[thepsalmist]

Faith and Deeds
JAMES 2


14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds?
Can such faith save them?


15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” (THE COMMAND TO LOVE THY NEIGHBOR) but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?
17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.


18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”


Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.

19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.


20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?


21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?


22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.


23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend.


24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.


26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

 

[thepsalmist]

Does anyone disagree with this scripture? James chapter 2

I ask this because I want to make sure we are not all just arguing semantics here.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Does anyone disagree with this scripture? James chapter 2

I ask this because I want to make sure we are not all just arguing semantics here.

Conduct is the proof of faith. If we say we know GOD and live in sin, we are liars.

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

Everyone who is fathered by God does not practice sin, because his seed resides in him, and [he is] not able to sin, because he has been fathered by God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are evident: everyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, neither the one who does not love his brother. 1 John 3:9-10​

James and John agree perfectly.

But whoever has the world’s material possessions and observes his brother in need and shuts his heart against him, how does the love of God reside in him? 1 John 3:17

​What [is] the benefit, my brothers, if someone says [that he] has faith but does not have works? That faith [is] not able to save him, [is it]? If a brother or a sister is poorly clothed and lacking food for the day, and one of you should say to them, “Go in peace, keep warm and eat well,” but does not give them what is necessary for the body, what [is] the benefit? James 2:14-16​

 

[roaringkitten]

Did the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ pay for all of your sins or not?

The simple answer is YES, by His own blood! For without the shedding of blood is no remission(Heb 9:22)

"Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus." Rom 3:24-26

Grace was given freely, redemption is IN Christ. Christ is the gospel incarnate(Saul saw the gospel-Jesus, Saul didn't have man teach it to him-Gal 1:12). The gospel is a bloody gospel, for the faith must be in His BLOOD! We are clothed with the garments of salvation(Jer 61:10) the moment we believe! It was Him that clothed us with the garments of salvation(but Adam and Eve tried to cover themselves), His blood washed our sins away, they are white as snow(Isa 1:18). The work has been done! The price has been paid in full! What else more is there to do but do the works of God? BELIEVE!(John 6:28-29).

Eternal life is only as secure as the medium used to secure it! For if we are saved by grace through faith, and if this faith must be in His blood, for God looks on the blood("when I see the blood" Exo 12:13), then the blood must be eternal, or there is no salvation. The difference between the blood of goats and calves and the blood of Jesus, is the blood of animals is TEMPORARY, but the blood of Jesus is ETERNAL!

"Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us." Heb 9:12

We see His eternal blood in Heb 9:12 and also in Rev 19:13! His blood accomplished ETERNAL redemption!

"Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus" Heb 10:19

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
James 2:20-24

James said if a person CLAIMS to have faith, but has ZERO ZIP NADA works. can his faith save him.

He is making a point, scripture says faith does, it is not dead, it works.

Noah had faith and it empowered him t build the ark, because he was FULLY assured that God would flood the earth as he promised.

Abraham had faith, and before he did any work, it was accredited to him as righteousness. (his faith saved him) then he went out and was fully assured of Gods promises, even to the point he was fully assured God would raise his son from the dead.

You should try reading Hebrews 10 and 11 some day. It shows how people who have real faith (fully assured) act.. And you will see why James makes it clear. hearers of the word but not doers of the word. who claim they have faith (are saved) are not saved, and never have been, Because if they were saved, THEY WOULD BE DOERS ALSO (WORKS)

Rom 4:
4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]2 [/SUP]For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]4 [/SUP]Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

eph 2: 8-10 -

[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, [SUP]9 [/SUP]not of works, lest anyone should boast. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Notice in both romans and eph paul says if we are saved by the things we do (works) we have something to boast bout?
James did not contradict Paul. He complimented him, Paul said those saved by grace WILL WORK. (EPH 2: 10) James said people who CLAIM to have faith but have no work are not saved by grace period..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1 John 2:12

"I am writing to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of His name."

this TRUTH goes against our very nature, It is against human nature to say our sins can be forgiven with no price that we have to pay.. We want to pay for our own sin, and not be given handouts, Which tear at our very essence and pride..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, because the blood, which is proof of his death, abides in heaven.

Jesus said it is finished,, Not I did my part. now you do yours..

The blood does not have to abide, God is outside of time, Forgiveness is paid in full (tetellesti) God already knows who will be saved, whether they have walked the earth yet or not. Because God is not bound by time, He knows all things past present and future

what will happen next friday is already known of God.. WHo the next president will be, is known by God.. What HRFTD will do three years from tomorrow. To God might as well have already occured, Because he knows exactly, every moment of every day..

That is the kind of God we have, a personal relational god. not the standoffish God the world and religion wants us to see.

Psalm 139 -
139 O Lord, You have searched me and known me. [SUP]2 [/SUP]You know my sitting down and my rising up; You understand my thought afar off. [SUP]3 [/SUP]You comprehend my path and my lying down, And are acquainted with all my ways. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For there is not a word on my tongue, But behold, O Lord, You know it altogether.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]You have hedged me behind and before, And laid Your hand upon me. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; It is high, I cannot attain it.[SUP]7 [/SUP]Where can I go from Your Spirit?Or where can I flee from Your presence?

[SUP]8 [/SUP]If I ascend into heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there. [SUP]9 [/SUP]If I take the wings of the morning, And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, [SUP]10 [/SUP]Even there Your hand shall lead me, And Your right hand shall hold me. [SUP]11 [/SUP]If I say, “Surely the darkness shall fall[SUP][a][/SUP] on me,” Even the night shall be light about me; [SUP]12 [/SUP]Indeed, the darkness shall not hide from You, But the night shines as the day; The darkness and the light are both alike to You.[SUP]

13 [/SUP]For You formed my inward parts; You covered me in my mother’s womb. [SUP]14 [/SUP]I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;[SUP][b][/SUP] Marvelous are Your works, And that my soul knows very well. [SUP]15 [/SUP]My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed. And in Your book they all were written, The days fashioned for me, When as yet there were none of them.[SUP]17 [/SUP]How precious also are Your thoughts to me, O God! How great is the sum of them![SUP] 18 [/SUP]If I should count them, they would be more in number than the sand; When I awake, I am still with You.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thats good. I'm totally going to steal that.

Have at it, they need to see this truth,, They say we desire sin, because they do not know or understand what we are or what we desire.

We desire to do our lords will. To please him. Why? Because he saved us from utter destruction.. and we are fullly assured (faith) he knows what we need, and what is good or bad for us..