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Well that's just ALL wrong. What is so ironic about all of this hyper grace stuff is that the very person who started it all, and who is in fact the one who coined the term, Michael Brown, and whose book "Hyper-Grace" is the one reference source for everything anti-grace, is a charismatic Messianic Jew who is himself very involved in the WOF movement that so many here are railing against. He claims to have been a leader in the Brownsville Revival. Where he earned the nickname “Knock ’em down” Brown, known for his ability to slay people in the Spirit. He even partnered with Benny Hinn for a series of episodes on Hinn’s television program. His book was basically an in-house hit piece against Prince that has now polluted the whole gospel of grace.
Angela, your opinion has just as much worth as the rest of the people in the body of Christ. This so-called hyper-grace is no more a lie then you are a man. I realize it conflicts with your religious beliefs and I understand that as it did the same thing to me in my church upbringing teachings too.
As far as your learning Greek in your courses - I am happy for you. You can study the scriptures all your life in every language in the world and still not have the revelation of it.
The Pharisees and scribes of Jesus's day thought they knew the scriptures as well but obviously had no revelation of Christ and His work. It takes the revelation of the Holy Spirit to reveal Christ - not a supposedly complete understanding of a language.
You do realize that there are Greek scholars that believe in speaking in tongues and there are others that do not - the funny thing is - they all read the Greek scriptures.
This statement below is just absolutely nonsense as no one is saying what you have said - if anything people are trying to tell about the great love and grace of God for us all.
"People are now at the point where they are implying that anyone who does not believe in "hypergrace" does not believe that Jesus loves them! Wow! Just wow! "
To say that believers in the grace of Christ are a cult is just spiritual ignorance come to seed in my opinion. You can continue to malign those that believe some aspects like forgiveness and repentance that you don't agree with but it is only going to hurt yourself.
Grace believers lift up the work, the love, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.
As far as your learning Greek in your courses - I am happy for you. You can study the scriptures all your life in every language in the world and still not have the revelation of it.
The Pharisees and scribes of Jesus's day thought they knew the scriptures as well but obviously had no revelation of Christ and His work. It takes the revelation of the Holy Spirit to reveal Christ - not a supposedly complete understanding of a language.
You do realize that there are Greek scholars that believe in speaking in tongues and there are others that do not - the funny thing is - they all read the Greek scriptures.
This statement below is just absolutely nonsense as no one is saying what you have said - if anything people are trying to tell about the great love and grace of God for us all.
"People are now at the point where they are implying that anyone who does not believe in "hypergrace" does not believe that Jesus loves them! Wow! Just wow! "
To say that believers in the grace of Christ are a cult is just spiritual ignorance come to seed in my opinion. You can continue to malign those that believe some aspects like forgiveness and repentance that you don't agree with but it is only going to hurt yourself.
Grace believers lift up the work, the love, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Learn many of the lies of the false grace cult following called "hyper grace" here--->>>Joseph Prince exposed, false teachings of Joseph Prince
That is a great website to show how some self-proclaimed heretic hunters "twist" what is being said to make it "appear" different then what the person is really saying.
It is also a great place to see how some teachings differ from what they themselves believe and so they are now heretics.
There are lot's of self-proclaimed heretic hunters on the internet. To them everyone is a heretic.
There are websites dedicated to the heretic Billy Graham. Billy Sunday, Charles Spurgeon, Charles Stanley, D.L. Moody, C.S. Lewis, John McArthur, Paul Washer, Joseph Prince, Bill Johnson, Martin Luther, John Calvin....Andrew Wommack...etc..basically anyone who is known has a website dedicated to their "heresies".
There are even websites dedicated to the heretic apostle Paul because his epistles "conflict" with some of Jesus' words.
Basically these self-proclaimed heretic hunters have a beef about some thing with what someone else believes and so they are now "heretics".
Their motto is: "If people don't believe some scriptures in the way that "they" do - they are heretics and they try to prove it with "their" version of what the scriptures say.."
This is not what we were taught in "my" church or in our whole church tradition.
It's the nature of the beast. Martin Luther was a heretic to the catholic church at the time because for 1100 years prior to Luther they had always "believed" the same way.
Where these types cross the line is when they turn a disagreement that they have with someone doctrinally on a secondary issue and turn it into "So and so is a false teacher and a heretic/satanist/controlled by a demon" type stuff.
It is also a great place to see how some teachings differ from what they themselves believe and so they are now heretics.
There are lot's of self-proclaimed heretic hunters on the internet. To them everyone is a heretic.
There are websites dedicated to the heretic Billy Graham. Billy Sunday, Charles Spurgeon, Charles Stanley, D.L. Moody, C.S. Lewis, John McArthur, Paul Washer, Joseph Prince, Bill Johnson, Martin Luther, John Calvin....Andrew Wommack...etc..basically anyone who is known has a website dedicated to their "heresies".
There are even websites dedicated to the heretic apostle Paul because his epistles "conflict" with some of Jesus' words.
Basically these self-proclaimed heretic hunters have a beef about some thing with what someone else believes and so they are now "heretics".
Their motto is: "If people don't believe some scriptures in the way that "they" do - they are heretics and they try to prove it with "their" version of what the scriptures say.."
This is not what we were taught in "my" church or in our whole church tradition.
It's the nature of the beast. Martin Luther was a heretic to the catholic church at the time because for 1100 years prior to Luther they had always "believed" the same way.
Where these types cross the line is when they turn a disagreement that they have with someone doctrinally on a secondary issue and turn it into "So and so is a false teacher and a heretic/satanist/controlled by a demon" type stuff.
L
LOL...I just don't like the lies that are trying to be spread because they don't see some scripture like someone else does in relation to the grace of God and so now they are a cult. In the same token - everyone is entitled to their opinion too.....
I am entitled to the truth and really dislike the twisting, outright lies and patented exaggerations that some have become known for
first of all, one size fits all Christianity just does not exist, no matter how much some people seem to want to make others over in their own image
ultimately, none of us have 'arrived', and while that is not an excuse for living in sin as some are keen to point out, it is also a reminder to those who try to judge everyone and everything that does not bow down and worship at the feet of their intellect
not directed at anyone here even though I know some will see it that way
E
I choose to reserve opinions on public Christians. Acts 5.33-39 tells us how to deal with these kinds of things.
I have applied Acts 5.33-39 many times and it never fails.
Now these so called heretic hunters, that feel the need to call out everyone they disagree with, need to also remember the parable of the wheat and the tares.....
I have applied Acts 5.33-39 many times and it never fails.
Now these so called heretic hunters, that feel the need to call out everyone they disagree with, need to also remember the parable of the wheat and the tares.....
L
haha
and now I am picturing a giant threshing machine...the judgemental words of those sitting in the seat and mowing EVERYONE down with no thought other than that they must be right because after all, God would never correct them when it is plain it is their DUTY and spiritual gift to correct others
and of course we must stir up the gifts that are in us
end of sarcasm
and now I am picturing a giant threshing machine...the judgemental words of those sitting in the seat and mowing EVERYONE down with no thought other than that they must be right because after all, God would never correct them when it is plain it is their DUTY and spiritual gift to correct others
and of course we must stir up the gifts that are in us
end of sarcasm
Amen...I agree with Acts 5:33-39....if it is of God - no one can fight against it. The proof is in people's lives being changed all over the world. Here is what it has done for me.
This is my testimony and if people want to call me a cult because of what my Lord Jesus has done for me - then so be it!
This is my testimony of what the gospel of the grace of Christ has done in my life:
I have a great passion for Christ!..here is what knowing Him because of the revelation of the gospel of the grace of Christ has done for me.
I was praying one morning and thinking about how the grace of Christ has affected me. I had the scripture come up in my spirit where the Pharisees were arguing about whether a man was born blind or not after Jesus healed him.
Of course the Pharisees were trying to discredit the message of Jesus. The man said.." All I know is that I was born blind but now I see."
This is what the gospel of the grace of Christ has done in my life:
I realize that these beliefs in the grace of God....especially the acceptance grace, repentance towards God's completed work in Christ and the total forgiveness that Jesus bought and paid for with His blood....that these can be offensive to our religious beliefs and what we have been taught in church. ( they were initially to me as well )
This gospel of the wondrous grace of Christ has had a beautiful affect on me. I am more in love with Jesus and the Father more then ever....in love with studying His word....praying in the spirit constantly with a heart full of joy!
This gospel has given me a compassion for other people and to reach out in love to them. To give more than I ever have with a heart full of love.
To live a holier life in Him...to be a witness of the life and love of our Lord in me.
If these are the horrible fruit of the grace of Christ in me....I want more!.....give me more grace please my Lord and God!
I am living a much fuller life now, more deeply in love with Jesus and the Father then ever before or ever dreamed was possible and I am just starting.
I am free from the horrible religion of self-effort, having the love of God pour out in me to help others now that I understand the grace that is in Christ then I did when I was doing the self-performance based gospel ( which is not the gospel )
I was blind but now I see. I see Jesus and His finished work for me!
It will always be in eternity "Worthy is the Lamb"..
it will never be.."Worthy is the Lamb......and me..because I did my own D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness to help Jesus out"
It has always been about Jesus and Him alone and it will always remain that way for all eternity.
This is my testimony and if people want to call me a cult because of what my Lord Jesus has done for me - then so be it!
This is my testimony of what the gospel of the grace of Christ has done in my life:
I have a great passion for Christ!..here is what knowing Him because of the revelation of the gospel of the grace of Christ has done for me.
I was praying one morning and thinking about how the grace of Christ has affected me. I had the scripture come up in my spirit where the Pharisees were arguing about whether a man was born blind or not after Jesus healed him.
Of course the Pharisees were trying to discredit the message of Jesus. The man said.." All I know is that I was born blind but now I see."
This is what the gospel of the grace of Christ has done in my life:
I realize that these beliefs in the grace of God....especially the acceptance grace, repentance towards God's completed work in Christ and the total forgiveness that Jesus bought and paid for with His blood....that these can be offensive to our religious beliefs and what we have been taught in church. ( they were initially to me as well )
This gospel of the wondrous grace of Christ has had a beautiful affect on me. I am more in love with Jesus and the Father more then ever....in love with studying His word....praying in the spirit constantly with a heart full of joy!
This gospel has given me a compassion for other people and to reach out in love to them. To give more than I ever have with a heart full of love.
To live a holier life in Him...to be a witness of the life and love of our Lord in me.
If these are the horrible fruit of the grace of Christ in me....I want more!.....give me more grace please my Lord and God!
I am living a much fuller life now, more deeply in love with Jesus and the Father then ever before or ever dreamed was possible and I am just starting.
I am free from the horrible religion of self-effort, having the love of God pour out in me to help others now that I understand the grace that is in Christ then I did when I was doing the self-performance based gospel ( which is not the gospel )
I was blind but now I see. I see Jesus and His finished work for me!
It will always be in eternity "Worthy is the Lamb"..
it will never be.."Worthy is the Lamb......and me..because I did my own D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness to help Jesus out"
It has always been about Jesus and Him alone and it will always remain that way for all eternity.
You just keep parroting this remark over and over. That I believe in "traditions," not the Bible. Did you learn this little phrase to answer legitmate and well thought out criticisms of HG, in JP training school? I know cults like to train their members and stock phrases like this are part and parcel of the training. In particular, you, Grace777 have so many stock phrases, verses pulled out of context, that it is so obvious you are completely given over to the propagation and dissemination of "another gospel." Talk about church traditions!! I don't care how new this hypergrace heresy is, it has a solid foundation of unbiblical traditions! Yep, hypergrace people are the ones caught in "church traditions."
In fact, steady, consistent and persistent study of the Bible is what finally led to the break through of realizing that a cult had not only taken over the forum, but was influencing people with their constant lies and saying that only "they" have the truth. The hypergrace truth. The lie that the Bible has totally been misinterpreted for 500 years, and the definitions are all wrong, because Joseph Prince says so!
And so, if all of those who believe the Bible, rather than JP stand against the just BAD theology of this cult, we are condemned, judged and cast out. Of course, we cannot lose our salvation because hypergrace people believe in eternal security, but we are definitely not in the "in" crowd, and their new definitions for everything that the gospel and the Bible stand for. (Which seriously has made me reexamine the whole concept of eternal security in light of the Bible)
And that, is the definition of a cult. To say nothing of bait and switch. Not addressing what I wrote, except for the same parroted phrases over and over and over and over!
Like "church traditions!" No, the church traditions are in fact the hypergrace crowd, who in such a short time have formed rigid and untenable doctrines, based on the false writings of JP. And if Michael Brown actually coined the phrase "hypergrace" certainly the HG crowd, at least at CC, has totally embraced the term, and pounded it here. Which is where I first heard it, and continue to hear it over and over and over and over.
As for why I continue to stand against this heresy, because I, with all my Bible background got sucked into this heresy for quite a while. I did not correctly divide the word of God, with regards to hypergrace, particularly the twisted new definitions of sin, repentance and grace. Thank goodness for the Holy Spirit, who just twigged my mind one day, reading these threads, and asked me what the truth was as HE had revealed it to me, both in my spirit and in the Word of God.
Yep, the Spirit led me. And then I realized, if I, a Bible scholar could fall for this heresy, what about people who have never read the Bible (like most Christians, sadly!)? What about new Christians coming here and reading this without a Biblical understanding and falling for this terrible lie? It upset me and motivated me to take an unpopular stand for the gospel of Jesus Christ. The real gospel, that is!
The church has been rife with heresy since Paul addressed heretics in Galatians.
"I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed." Gal. 1:6-9
Yes, the gospel has been distorted and twisted many times. And it can happen rapidly, as the take over of this forum by hypergrace believers proves. Not church tradition but the truth of the Holy Spirit working in my heart and life, and my knowledge of Bible interpretation (Greek and Hebrew help, but dividing the word is even more important!), that led me to stand against this cult, it's heresies, and the lies that are being told here.
Do you honestly think I would reverse my position on this topic and get battered by unthinking people every single thread, if the Holy Spirit had not absolutely and utterly spoken to me? I am not that strong in myself. As for church traditions, as a former rebel, God has used that streak of discontent and disbelief to lead me to question everything! The matter is not settled. The church traditions that hypergrace have started are the real problem here.
And so many have been led astray by this cult in CC. Just so sad!
In fact, steady, consistent and persistent study of the Bible is what finally led to the break through of realizing that a cult had not only taken over the forum, but was influencing people with their constant lies and saying that only "they" have the truth. The hypergrace truth. The lie that the Bible has totally been misinterpreted for 500 years, and the definitions are all wrong, because Joseph Prince says so!
And so, if all of those who believe the Bible, rather than JP stand against the just BAD theology of this cult, we are condemned, judged and cast out. Of course, we cannot lose our salvation because hypergrace people believe in eternal security, but we are definitely not in the "in" crowd, and their new definitions for everything that the gospel and the Bible stand for. (Which seriously has made me reexamine the whole concept of eternal security in light of the Bible)
And that, is the definition of a cult. To say nothing of bait and switch. Not addressing what I wrote, except for the same parroted phrases over and over and over and over!
Like "church traditions!" No, the church traditions are in fact the hypergrace crowd, who in such a short time have formed rigid and untenable doctrines, based on the false writings of JP. And if Michael Brown actually coined the phrase "hypergrace" certainly the HG crowd, at least at CC, has totally embraced the term, and pounded it here. Which is where I first heard it, and continue to hear it over and over and over and over.
As for why I continue to stand against this heresy, because I, with all my Bible background got sucked into this heresy for quite a while. I did not correctly divide the word of God, with regards to hypergrace, particularly the twisted new definitions of sin, repentance and grace. Thank goodness for the Holy Spirit, who just twigged my mind one day, reading these threads, and asked me what the truth was as HE had revealed it to me, both in my spirit and in the Word of God.
Yep, the Spirit led me. And then I realized, if I, a Bible scholar could fall for this heresy, what about people who have never read the Bible (like most Christians, sadly!)? What about new Christians coming here and reading this without a Biblical understanding and falling for this terrible lie? It upset me and motivated me to take an unpopular stand for the gospel of Jesus Christ. The real gospel, that is!
The church has been rife with heresy since Paul addressed heretics in Galatians.
"I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed." Gal. 1:6-9
Yes, the gospel has been distorted and twisted many times. And it can happen rapidly, as the take over of this forum by hypergrace believers proves. Not church tradition but the truth of the Holy Spirit working in my heart and life, and my knowledge of Bible interpretation (Greek and Hebrew help, but dividing the word is even more important!), that led me to stand against this cult, it's heresies, and the lies that are being told here.
Do you honestly think I would reverse my position on this topic and get battered by unthinking people every single thread, if the Holy Spirit had not absolutely and utterly spoken to me? I am not that strong in myself. As for church traditions, as a former rebel, God has used that streak of discontent and disbelief to lead me to question everything! The matter is not settled. The church traditions that hypergrace have started are the real problem here.
And so many have been led astray by this cult in CC. Just so sad!