GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?
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I dont see the words "4th Commandment" or "sabbath" in that passage... maybe in His day the pharisees would literally kill you if you didnt honor the holy days the way and on the day they said?
Matthew 23:34-35, “Because of this, see, I send you prophets, and wise men, and scholars of Scripture, Some of them you shall kill and impale, and some of them you shall flog in your congregations and persecute from city to city, so that on you should come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Heḇel to the blood of Zeḵaryah, son of Bereḵyah, whom you murdered between the Dwelling Place and the altar."
2 Chronicles 24:20-21, "Then the Spirit of the Most High came upon Zeḵaryah son of Yehoyaḏa the priest, who stood above the people, and said to them, “Thus said the Most High, ‘Why are you transgressing the commands of יהוה, and do not prosper? Because you have forsaken יהוה, He has forsaken you. And they conspired against him, and at the command of the sovereign they stoned him with stones in the courtyard of the House of יהוה."
Would you look at that, its even quoted by Yahshua and recorded in Chronicles so we might have understanding...
The prophet Zecharyah (father of John the baptist) had a disagreement with the Pharisees about what day to keep the Day of Atonement, they commanded him to not honor it on the day YHWH said to but to rather honor the day they supplied, “the tradition of the elders”. Zecharyah chose to obey YHWH, and his body was killed because of it, and as we just read Yahshua scolded them on this matter.
And the Pharisess accused Yahshua and His disciples because they did not wash their hands before they ate:
Matthew 15:1-2, “Then there came to יהושע scribes and Pharisees from Yerushalayim, saying, Why do Your taught ones transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.”
Finally they accused Yahshua of breaking the Sabbath. He did not break the Sabbath according to YHWH, if He did He could not have been the sinless/spotless Passover Lamb, but He did break the Pharisees man made Sabbath “laws”
Matthew 12:1-8, "12:1, "At that time יהושע went through the grain fields on the Sabbath. And His taught ones were hungry, and began to pluck heads of grain, to eat."12:2, "And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to Him, “Look, Your taught ones are doing what is not right to do on the Sabbath!”"12:3, "But He said to them, “Have you not read what Dawiḏ did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him:"12:4, "how he went into the House of Elohim and ate the showbread which was not right for him to eat, nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests?"12:5, "“Or did you not read in the Torah that on the Sabbath the priests in the Set-apart Place profane the Sabbath, and are blameless?"12:6, "“But I say to you that in this place there is One greater than the Set-apart Place."12:7, "“And if you had known what this means, ‘I desire compassion and not offering,’ Hos 6:6 you would not have condemned the blameless."12:8, "“For the Son of Aḏam is Master of the Sabbath.”a Footnote: aSee also Gen 2:2-3."
They were blameless because they were doing the work and will of YHWH, that is the purpose of the Sabbath, the pharisees made it about sitting in your house twiddling your thumbs...
Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."
Mark 3:4, “And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do right on the Sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.”
Isayah 58:11-14, "YHWH will guide you continually, and satisfy your soul in drought, and make fat; (strengthen), your bones. You will be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail. And those of you will rebuild the old waste places; you will raise up the foundations of many generations; and you will be called the Repairer of the Breach, the Restorer of Streets to Dwell In; If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of YHWH honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in idle conversation: Then you will find your joy in YHWH; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father, for the mouth of YHWH has spoken it."
Matthew 23:34-35, “Because of this, see, I send you prophets, and wise men, and scholars of Scripture, Some of them you shall kill and impale, and some of them you shall flog in your congregations and persecute from city to city, so that on you should come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Heḇel to the blood of Zeḵaryah, son of Bereḵyah, whom you murdered between the Dwelling Place and the altar."
2 Chronicles 24:20-21, "Then the Spirit of the Most High came upon Zeḵaryah son of Yehoyaḏa the priest, who stood above the people, and said to them, “Thus said the Most High, ‘Why are you transgressing the commands of יהוה, and do not prosper? Because you have forsaken יהוה, He has forsaken you. And they conspired against him, and at the command of the sovereign they stoned him with stones in the courtyard of the House of יהוה."
Would you look at that, its even quoted by Yahshua and recorded in Chronicles so we might have understanding...
The prophet Zecharyah (father of John the baptist) had a disagreement with the Pharisees about what day to keep the Day of Atonement, they commanded him to not honor it on the day YHWH said to but to rather honor the day they supplied, “the tradition of the elders”. Zecharyah chose to obey YHWH, and his body was killed because of it, and as we just read Yahshua scolded them on this matter.
And the Pharisess accused Yahshua and His disciples because they did not wash their hands before they ate:
Matthew 15:1-2, “Then there came to יהושע scribes and Pharisees from Yerushalayim, saying, Why do Your taught ones transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.”
Finally they accused Yahshua of breaking the Sabbath. He did not break the Sabbath according to YHWH, if He did He could not have been the sinless/spotless Passover Lamb, but He did break the Pharisees man made Sabbath “laws”
Matthew 12:1-8, "12:1, "At that time יהושע went through the grain fields on the Sabbath. And His taught ones were hungry, and began to pluck heads of grain, to eat."12:2, "And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to Him, “Look, Your taught ones are doing what is not right to do on the Sabbath!”"12:3, "But He said to them, “Have you not read what Dawiḏ did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him:"12:4, "how he went into the House of Elohim and ate the showbread which was not right for him to eat, nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests?"12:5, "“Or did you not read in the Torah that on the Sabbath the priests in the Set-apart Place profane the Sabbath, and are blameless?"12:6, "“But I say to you that in this place there is One greater than the Set-apart Place."12:7, "“And if you had known what this means, ‘I desire compassion and not offering,’ Hos 6:6 you would not have condemned the blameless."12:8, "“For the Son of Aḏam is Master of the Sabbath.”a Footnote: aSee also Gen 2:2-3."
They were blameless because they were doing the work and will of YHWH, that is the purpose of the Sabbath, the pharisees made it about sitting in your house twiddling your thumbs...
Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."
Mark 3:4, “And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do right on the Sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.”
Isayah 58:11-14, "YHWH will guide you continually, and satisfy your soul in drought, and make fat; (strengthen), your bones. You will be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail. And those of you will rebuild the old waste places; you will raise up the foundations of many generations; and you will be called the Repairer of the Breach, the Restorer of Streets to Dwell In; If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of YHWH honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in idle conversation: Then you will find your joy in YHWH; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father, for the mouth of YHWH has spoken it."
Really? Let's see?
Romans 14
5, One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Well that scripture does not even mention the 4th commandment, the 7th day Sabbath. It does tie in though with the OP and the annual festivals though you should read it.
This definitely does not say that God's 4th commandment was abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day and it definitely does not agree with all the scriptures in the OP and post # 412 that contradict your interpretation of the scripture.
If you find that your interpretation of God's Word is in contradiction with scripture than it should be a warning to all they are building on sifting sand. If you believe your interpretation of the scripture is true you may need to harmonize the 200+ that disagrees with you. Maybe you can start by answering the scriptures post # 412 that contradict your interpretation of the scripture?
Sunday worship is a tradition of man that breaks the commandments of God (the fruit of love). Many have forsaken God's 4th commandment to follow Sunday worship. In times of ignorance God winks at but when a knowledge of the truth has come calls all men everywhere to repent and believe His Word.
Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of man or the Word of God?. Jesus says if we follow the traditions of man over the Word of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)
Who should we believe God or man?
Romans 14
5, One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Well that scripture does not even mention the 4th commandment, the 7th day Sabbath. It does tie in though with the OP and the annual festivals though you should read it.
This definitely does not say that God's 4th commandment was abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day and it definitely does not agree with all the scriptures in the OP and post # 412 that contradict your interpretation of the scripture.
If you find that your interpretation of God's Word is in contradiction with scripture than it should be a warning to all they are building on sifting sand. If you believe your interpretation of the scripture is true you may need to harmonize the 200+ that disagrees with you. Maybe you can start by answering the scriptures post # 412 that contradict your interpretation of the scripture?
Sunday worship is a tradition of man that breaks the commandments of God (the fruit of love). Many have forsaken God's 4th commandment to follow Sunday worship. In times of ignorance God winks at but when a knowledge of the truth has come calls all men everywhere to repent and believe His Word.
Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of man or the Word of God?. Jesus says if we follow the traditions of man over the Word of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)
Who should we believe God or man?
Hello gb9, I have answered all your questions with scripture. Maybe you did not like the answers I ask you questions but get no answers. For example..................
Where in God's Word does it say that God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?
I provided scripture to you earlier because you claim that the first five books of the bible (this is what the Torah is) are not for Christians but for Israel only.
If you are not part of God's Israel you are indeed not a part of the New Covenant. God's Law is the standard of the Old Covenant, the New Covenant and the Judgement to come. You are mixed up with the ceremonial laws of Moses that were shadows pointing to Jesus. This is what the OP is about and I see you have not read it.
If you believe your interpretation of the scripture to be true. Then please tell us why and harmonize the scriptures posted post # 412 that disagree with you. If you cannot who should we believe, the Word of God or the Word of website?
Where in God's Word does it say that God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?
I provided scripture to you earlier because you claim that the first five books of the bible (this is what the Torah is) are not for Christians but for Israel only.
If you are not part of God's Israel you are indeed not a part of the New Covenant. God's Law is the standard of the Old Covenant, the New Covenant and the Judgement to come. You are mixed up with the ceremonial laws of Moses that were shadows pointing to Jesus. This is what the OP is about and I see you have not read it.
If you believe your interpretation of the scripture to be true. Then please tell us why and harmonize the scriptures posted post # 412 that disagree with you. If you cannot who should we believe, the Word of God or the Word of website?
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This post is a great example of those who point others to the teachings and traditions of man over the Word of God and is why it is written; Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch? Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch. Only God's Word is true and this is where we must point all because it is only there, anyone can find him who knows all and loves all, and only His Spirit can show the way.
Everybody is right in their own eyes. That is why there is over 500+ different versions of Christianity today. Everyone saying they are the chosen of God but following the teachings of man over the Word of God. They point all to the word of website and the teachings of man over the Word of God.
The mainstream preachers in the days of Jesus taught others that he was a heretic and his followers a cult, so did the Mother Church (RCC) when they persecuted the saints at beginning of Protestantism when Protestantism was real.
If they have called the master of the house of the devil; how much more will they call them of the household a cult? There is nothing new under the sun. Woe unto you! for you build the graves of the prophets, and your fathers killed them.
Let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, that thou might be justified in your sayings, and might overcome when thou art judged. Only God's Word is true and this is were we should point all to find him who loves all because it is the Word of God that will judge all of us in the last days and it is only through God's Word anyone can find the one who loves all.
Who should we believe the Word of God or the teachings and traditions of mainstream preachers that break the commandments of God? Sin is the transgression of God's Law. He that says I know him and does not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him.
PS. bring all your arguments here and lets talk about them and let God's Word be the judge.
He must increase but we must decrease. Only the Word of God is a lamp unto our feet and the light that shines in darkness but men loved darkness rather then light because their deeds were evil. For every one that does evil hates the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. Many are called but few are chosen...........................
Everybody is right in their own eyes. That is why there is over 500+ different versions of Christianity today. Everyone saying they are the chosen of God but following the teachings of man over the Word of God. They point all to the word of website and the teachings of man over the Word of God.
The mainstream preachers in the days of Jesus taught others that he was a heretic and his followers a cult, so did the Mother Church (RCC) when they persecuted the saints at beginning of Protestantism when Protestantism was real.
If they have called the master of the house of the devil; how much more will they call them of the household a cult? There is nothing new under the sun. Woe unto you! for you build the graves of the prophets, and your fathers killed them.
Let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, that thou might be justified in your sayings, and might overcome when thou art judged. Only God's Word is true and this is were we should point all to find him who loves all because it is the Word of God that will judge all of us in the last days and it is only through God's Word anyone can find the one who loves all.
Who should we believe the Word of God or the teachings and traditions of mainstream preachers that break the commandments of God? Sin is the transgression of God's Law. He that says I know him and does not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him.
PS. bring all your arguments here and lets talk about them and let God's Word be the judge.
He must increase but we must decrease. Only the Word of God is a lamp unto our feet and the light that shines in darkness but men loved darkness rather then light because their deeds were evil. For every one that does evil hates the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. Many are called but few are chosen...........................
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PHIL. 4:8.
Finally, brethren,
whatsoever things are true,
whatsoever things are honest,
whatsoever things are just,
whatsoever things are pure,
whatsoever things are lovely,
whatsoever things are of good report;
if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
REV. 15:3.
And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of The Lamb, saying,
Great and marvellous are Thy Works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are Thy ways, Thou King of saints.
Finally, brethren,
whatsoever things are true,
whatsoever things are honest,
whatsoever things are just,
whatsoever things are pure,
whatsoever things are lovely,
whatsoever things are of good report;
if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
REV. 15:3.
And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of The Lamb, saying,
Great and marvellous are Thy Works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are Thy ways, Thou King of saints.
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Well that scripture does not even mention the 4th commandment, the 7th day Sabbath.
Lets look at the bible and all of Romans 14...
Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
The first thing we see here is that this chapter is about relating to a weak brother.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
The subject here? Vegetarianism
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth
not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
So, if you encounter one who is weak in the faith and believes he must eat vegetables only,
don’t let this puff you up…
2Co 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some
that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing
themselves among themselves, are not wise.
What is the gold standard here?
1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us,
leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God,
unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth
or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Now to the meat and potatoes…
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike.
Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day,
to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks;
and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Why is eating and fasting (not eating) connected to days here? Let’s see…
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee,
that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
From Bullingers Companion Bible…
Luke 18:12
twice in the week. The law prescribed only one in the year (Lev_16:29. Num_29:7).
By the time of Zec_8:19 there were four yearly fasts.
In our Lord's day they were bi-weekly (Monday and Thursday), between Passover and Pentecost;
and between the Feast of Tabernacles and the Dedication.
Yes they fasted two days a week, Monday and Thursday, EVERY MONDAY and EVERY THURSDAY.
Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord:
whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both
of the dead and living.
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother?
for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather,
that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself:
but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably.
Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
Now Paul shifts his attention to meat offered to idols. At the time, meat and drink were offered
to pagan idols. After it was offered it was sold in a meat market called the ‘Shambles’.
1Co 10:25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
Shambles…
G3111
µa´?e????
makellon
Thayer Definition:
1) a place where meat and other articles of food are sold, meat market
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: of Latin origin [macellum]
Citing in TDNT: 4:370, 549
There were those who were weak in the faith (verse 1) who were offended by this.
They somehow thought that eating that food was somehow connecting them with the
idolatrous practices around them. This is why the following is written…
Rom 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness,
and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Meat here is…
G1035
ß???s??
bro¯sis
bro'-sis
From the base of G977; (abstractly) eating (literally or figuratively);
by extension (concretely) food (literally or figuratively): - eating, food, meat.
Notice it is food, not clean or unclean flesh.
G4213
p?´s??
posis
pos'-is
From the alternate of G4095; a drinking (the act), that is, (concretely) a draught: - drink.
Drinking, can be alcoholic or non-alcoholic beverages. Paul was dealing with ascetism
and the belief that doing without was somehow a show of character.
He dealt with this issue at Colossae also…
Col 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Col 2:23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility,
and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace,
and things wherewith one may edify another.
Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure;
but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
The word for meat here is broma, from Thayer’s…
G1033
ß???µa
bro¯ma
Thayer Definition:
1) that which is eaten, food
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from the base of G977
Citing in TDNT: 1:642, 111
Again, we are dealing with food.
Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby
thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
So, it is not dealing with clean and unclean, but with flesh (meat) and wine (drink)
that makes a weak brother stumble.
Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God.
Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith:
for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
There is no passage in Rom 14 that deals with the Sabbath or clean and unclean meats.
The subjects are vegetarianism, fasting and food and drink offered to idols.
Lets look at the bible and all of Romans 14...
Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
The first thing we see here is that this chapter is about relating to a weak brother.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
The subject here? Vegetarianism
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth
not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
So, if you encounter one who is weak in the faith and believes he must eat vegetables only,
don’t let this puff you up…
2Co 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some
that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing
themselves among themselves, are not wise.
What is the gold standard here?
1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us,
leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God,
unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth
or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Now to the meat and potatoes…
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike.
Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day,
to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks;
and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Why is eating and fasting (not eating) connected to days here? Let’s see…
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee,
that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
From Bullingers Companion Bible…
Luke 18:12
twice in the week. The law prescribed only one in the year (Lev_16:29. Num_29:7).
By the time of Zec_8:19 there were four yearly fasts.
In our Lord's day they were bi-weekly (Monday and Thursday), between Passover and Pentecost;
and between the Feast of Tabernacles and the Dedication.
Yes they fasted two days a week, Monday and Thursday, EVERY MONDAY and EVERY THURSDAY.
Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord:
whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both
of the dead and living.
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother?
for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather,
that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself:
but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably.
Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
Now Paul shifts his attention to meat offered to idols. At the time, meat and drink were offered
to pagan idols. After it was offered it was sold in a meat market called the ‘Shambles’.
1Co 10:25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
Shambles…
G3111
µa´?e????
makellon
Thayer Definition:
1) a place where meat and other articles of food are sold, meat market
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: of Latin origin [macellum]
Citing in TDNT: 4:370, 549
There were those who were weak in the faith (verse 1) who were offended by this.
They somehow thought that eating that food was somehow connecting them with the
idolatrous practices around them. This is why the following is written…
Rom 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness,
and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Meat here is…
G1035
ß???s??
bro¯sis
bro'-sis
From the base of G977; (abstractly) eating (literally or figuratively);
by extension (concretely) food (literally or figuratively): - eating, food, meat.
Notice it is food, not clean or unclean flesh.
G4213
p?´s??
posis
pos'-is
From the alternate of G4095; a drinking (the act), that is, (concretely) a draught: - drink.
Drinking, can be alcoholic or non-alcoholic beverages. Paul was dealing with ascetism
and the belief that doing without was somehow a show of character.
He dealt with this issue at Colossae also…
Col 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Col 2:23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility,
and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace,
and things wherewith one may edify another.
Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure;
but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
The word for meat here is broma, from Thayer’s…
G1033
ß???µa
bro¯ma
Thayer Definition:
1) that which is eaten, food
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from the base of G977
Citing in TDNT: 1:642, 111
Again, we are dealing with food.
Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby
thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
So, it is not dealing with clean and unclean, but with flesh (meat) and wine (drink)
that makes a weak brother stumble.
Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God.
Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith:
for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
There is no passage in Rom 14 that deals with the Sabbath or clean and unclean meats.
The subjects are vegetarianism, fasting and food and drink offered to idols.
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Hello Valiant, I write this out of genuine concern for you and out of my duty of love to God and man. I pray that you may be like the faithful Bereans who sort the Lord daily in prayer and studied God's Word for themselves to see if these things be so.
If you really did have peace in what you believe you would not be here. I believe God is pleading with you through His Word because he loves you and you know deep down inside you are building on sifting sand. You do not have to answer to me of course but only to God as we all do because it is God's Word alone that will judge all of us in the last days.
Please answer these questions for yourself at least as they will help you to have a closer walk with the one who loves all and is not willing that any of us should be lost.
1. Where does it say in the scriptures that God's 4th commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?
2. How does your interpretation of scripture that God's Law is abolished harmonize with only some of the scripture presented in post # 412 that says the opposite of what you believe?
There is nothing new under the sun the thing that has been is the thing that will be.
Sunday worship is a tradition of man that breaks the commandments of God. Many have forsaken God's 4th commandment to follow after the traditions of man that break the commandment of God.
In times of ignorance God winks at but when a knowledge of the truth has come calls all men everywhere to repent and believe His Word.
Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of man or the Word of God?. Jesus says if we follow the traditions of man over the Word of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)
May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.
If you really did have peace in what you believe you would not be here. I believe God is pleading with you through His Word because he loves you and you know deep down inside you are building on sifting sand. You do not have to answer to me of course but only to God as we all do because it is God's Word alone that will judge all of us in the last days.
Please answer these questions for yourself at least as they will help you to have a closer walk with the one who loves all and is not willing that any of us should be lost.
1. Where does it say in the scriptures that God's 4th commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?
2. How does your interpretation of scripture that God's Law is abolished harmonize with only some of the scripture presented in post # 412 that says the opposite of what you believe?
There is nothing new under the sun the thing that has been is the thing that will be.
Sunday worship is a tradition of man that breaks the commandments of God. Many have forsaken God's 4th commandment to follow after the traditions of man that break the commandment of God.
In times of ignorance God winks at but when a knowledge of the truth has come calls all men everywhere to repent and believe His Word.
Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of man or the Word of God?. Jesus says if we follow the traditions of man over the Word of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)
May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.
Would you take this passage to think it is OK to eat meat sacrificed to idols?
1 Corinthians 8:1-13, "Now concerning food offered to idols: we know that “all of us possess knowledge.” This “knowledge” puffs up, but love builds up. If anyone imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know. But if anyone loves God, he is known by God. Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.” For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do. But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, will he not be encouraged, if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols? And so by your knowledge this weak person is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died. Thus, sinning against your brothers and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble." (ESV)
1 Corinthians 8:7-8, "However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do." (ESV)
Acts 15:28-29, “For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.” (ESV)
Acts 21:25, "But as for the Gentiles who have believed, we have sent a letter with our judgment that they should abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality.” (ESV)
Revelation 2:14, "But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality." (ESV)
Revelation 2:20, "But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols." (ESV)
Clearly it is not OK to eat meat sacrifiecd to idols...
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Paul/Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless, but grow in the favor and knowledge of our Master and Savior [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Amĕn.”[/FONT]
1 Corinthians 8:1-13, "Now concerning food offered to idols: we know that “all of us possess knowledge.” This “knowledge” puffs up, but love builds up. If anyone imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know. But if anyone loves God, he is known by God. Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.” For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do. But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, will he not be encouraged, if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols? And so by your knowledge this weak person is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died. Thus, sinning against your brothers and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble." (ESV)
1 Corinthians 8:7-8, "However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do." (ESV)
Acts 15:28-29, “For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.” (ESV)
Acts 21:25, "But as for the Gentiles who have believed, we have sent a letter with our judgment that they should abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality.” (ESV)
Revelation 2:14, "But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality." (ESV)
Revelation 2:20, "But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols." (ESV)
Clearly it is not OK to eat meat sacrifiecd to idols...
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Paul/Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless, but grow in the favor and knowledge of our Master and Savior [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Amĕn.”[/FONT]
what you did in post #412 is this- make statements , and then just pluck out individual verses out of books and letters to back up the statements you presented. this is backwards use of God's word.
for example, Romans was a letter that Paul wrote. to just take 8 sentences out of that letter and say " thus says Paul " is not what was the intended use'
first Thessalonians 5-27- ' I charge you before the Lord to have this LETTER read before the brethren " . so there you go. Paul's letters are to be read as letters.
Have you not read in Isaiah where it says....
9, ¶ Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine ? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10, For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
11, For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12, To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
13, But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
14, ¶ Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
15, Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
16, Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
17, Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
18, And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
19, From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
9, ¶ Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine ? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10, For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
11, For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12, To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
13, But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
14, ¶ Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
15, Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
16, Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
17, Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
18, And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
19, From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
I have done so and am quite clear.
I AM HERE TO PREVENT OTHERS FROM BEING MISLED.
You mean solid rock
God's word is clear. It is you who are not clear. The Sabbath was a shadow. Our rest in Christ is the reality.
I have already done so
Rom 14.5-6; Col 2.16-17.
I have never argued for Sunday. My argument is for any day (Rom 14.6).
However the very early church observed Sunday.
post 412 does not say the opposite, it is mainly referring to the time when the Sabbath was kept by the Jews, or when Paul took advantage of the Jews meeting then so as to preach, which was sensible
lol
We cannot forsake what has never been binding on us. The fourth commandment was to Israel only, READ the Bible.,
The truth is that the fourth commandment was to Israel only.
The FULL word of God.
Ok then follow the full word of God,
He does, especially on Sundays (Acts 20.7)
I AM HERE TO PREVENT OTHERS FROM BEING MISLED.
You mean solid rock
God's word is clear. It is you who are not clear. The Sabbath was a shadow. Our rest in Christ is the reality.
I have already done so
Rom 14.5-6; Col 2.16-17.
I have never argued for Sunday. My argument is for any day (Rom 14.6).
However the very early church observed Sunday.
post 412 does not say the opposite, it is mainly referring to the time when the Sabbath was kept by the Jews, or when Paul took advantage of the Jews meeting then so as to preach, which was sensible
lol
We cannot forsake what has never been binding on us. The fourth commandment was to Israel only, READ the Bible.,
The truth is that the fourth commandment was to Israel only.
The FULL word of God.
Ok then follow the full word of God,
He does, especially on Sundays (Acts 20.7)
