24 Elders seated around the throne, who are they ?

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Jul 24, 2021
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#41
I don't think they are angels.
Rev 7:9-11, a distinction is made between the angels, elders and the multitude of redeemed.
Revelation 7 is when the 144000 is filled. It presents the redeemed. There is no "distinction" in those verses indicating they were of the redeemed. Remember they sat around the throne before the Lamb arrived. There will be no resurrection till Christian martyrdom is full (5th Seal)

Here is a narrative before the full redemption of 144000
Revelation 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
The beasts are Seraphim. The elders are associated with the Heavenly Host, not the redeemed.

White hair and age indicative of Wisdom and Godly Glory.
Proverbs 16:31 The hoary head is a crown of glory, if it be found in the way of righteousness.

Ancient of Days - Daniel 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

This is Jesus in Heaven Rev 1:14 Revelation 1:14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

The term elder is not of carnal age but spiritual wisdom.
 
Apr 21, 2021
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#42
In Revelation 4:4 John speaks of 24 Elders seated around the Throne of God, clothed in white raiment and on their heads crowns of gold. Its been said that 12 of them are most likely the apostles that were with Christ during His ministry on Earth and that 12 are the heads or fathers of each of the 12 tribes of Israel ( the 12 sons of Jacob ). This appears to make sense since in Revelation 21:12 it mentions that the names of the 12 tribes of the children is Israel are written on the gates of the city of New Jerusalem and that the city had 12 foundations on which were the names of the 12 apostles of the Lamb ( Rev. 21:14 ) . Comments ?
I think you may be right. There's the issue of John still being on earth at the time of his vision, so if it's the 12 apostles he must have seen a vision of himself in the future.
 
Jul 24, 2021
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#43
When did angels have to be redeemed by the blood?
Angels did not need redemption by blood.
Men need blood 1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Angels needed the Abyss and the Sacrifice. The Abyss to imprison the fallen ones (A third swept by the dragon's tail) and the Sacifice of Only-Begotten Son as He will be Eternal High Priest (25th seat- Ezekiel 8:16) and the Absolute King (1 Peter 3:22). Only by Sacrifice, the Only-Begotten was Begotten by God and was exalted above the angels.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#44
Angels did not need redemption by blood.
Men need blood 1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Angels needed the Abyss and the Sacrifice. The Abyss to imprison the fallen ones (A third swept by the dragon's tail) and the Sacifice of Only-Begotten Son as He will be Eternal High Priest (25th seat- Ezekiel 8:16) and the Absolute King (1 Peter 3:22). Only by Sacrifice, the Only-Begotten was Begotten by God and was exalted above the angels.
Yet the 24 elders sang praises to the lamb for redeeming them with his blood
 
Sep 22, 2013
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#45
I think you may be right. There's the issue of John still being on earth at the time of his vision, so if it's the 12 apostles he must have seen a vision of himself in the future.
Wouldn't it be interesting if the elder who came to him to ask him who the multitude is, was John? I had this thought a while back. Would I be able to recognize a vision of my older self if he came to talk with me? Not sure I would.
 
Jul 24, 2021
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#47
Yet the 24 elders sang praises to the lamb for redeeming them with his blood
If you are referring to KJV Rev 5:9
King James Bible
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

consider the Berean literal bible
"And they are singing a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the scroll and to open its seals, because You were slain, and You purchased to God by Your blood, out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,"
There is no us. The greek also indicates no capacity for "us".

Again, the 24 required their High Priest Jesus. Only through His Sacrifice was this achieved.

If it is somewhere else, please cite the verse.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#48
If you are referring to KJV Rev 5:9
King James Bible
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

consider the Berean literal bible
"And they are singing a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the scroll and to open its seals, because You were slain, and You purchased to God by Your blood, out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,"
There is no us. The greek also indicates no capacity for "us".

Again, the 24 required their High Priest Jesus. Only through His Sacrifice was this achieved.

If it is somewhere else, please cite the verse.
It still shows their not angels
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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#50
We can?

Rev 5:
8 Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they sang a new song, saying:

“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10 And have made us kings and priests to our God;
And we shall reign on the earth.”


no we can not even contemplate what you said to be in fact a possibility. God did not redeem made up people. he redeemed born sinners.
So the four beasts are also humans? They sing the song too:

Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.


The four beasts and 24 elders have harps and sing that song. It is not a personal testimony song they make up on the spot about themselves. They sing a pre-written song about others.
 
May 13, 2016
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#51
In Revelation 4:4 John speaks of 24 Elders seated around the Throne of God, clothed in white raiment and on their heads crowns of gold. Its been said that 12 of them are most likely the apostles that were with Christ during His ministry on Earth and that 12 are the heads or fathers of each of the 12 tribes of Israel ( the 12 sons of Jacob ). This appears to make sense since in Revelation 21:12 it mentions that the names of the 12 tribes of the children is Israel are written on the gates of the city of New Jerusalem and that the city had 12 foundations on which were the names of the 12 apostles of the Lamb ( Rev. 21:14) . Comments ?
They represent the Raptured Church, we know this by the way they are described as FAITHFUL OVERCOMERS !!

Rev. 4:4 And (1)round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in (2)white raiment ; and they had on their (3)heads crowns of gold.

(1)...........Rev. 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

(2)...........Rev. 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

(3)..........Rev. 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Israel are the Wheat, they must go through the Tribulation (be crushed) in order to be sifted, the Church is the Barley, and barley doesn't need to be crushed before it is sifted. Daniel was clearly told he would stand in his lot at the VERY END, and in Dan. 12:1-2 we clearly see that the Jews are raised up at the very end.

The book of Revelation has 404 verses and 289 have Old Testament lingo, Rev. 17 is a story from Daniel 5, the Mene, Mene, Tekel story of Babylons fall/handwriting on the wall. The 24 Elders are just referring to the Church as pertaining unto who they are as seen by God. In 1 Chronicles 24 we get the 24 Orders of the Priesthood.

The Divisions of the Priests
1 Chronicles 24:1 The divisions of the descendants of Aaron were as follows: Aaron’s sons were Nadab, Abihu, Eleazar, and Ithamar.

7 The first lot fell to Jehoiarib, the second to Jedaiah,
8 the third to Harim, the fourth to Seorim,
9 the fifth to Malchijah, the sixth to Mijamin,
10 the seventh to Hakkoz, the eighth to Abijah,
11 the ninth to Jeshua, the tenth to Shecaniah,
12 the eleventh to Eliashib, the twelfth to Jakim,
13 the thirteenth to Huppah, the fourteenth to Jeshebeab,
14 the fifteenth to Bilgah, the sixteenth to Immer,
15 the seventeenth to Hezir, the eighteenth to Happizzez,
16 the nineteenth to Pethahiah, the twentieth to Jehezkel,
17 the twenty-first to Jachin, the twenty-second to Gamul,
18 the twenty-third to Delaiah, and the twenty-fourth to Maaziah.

So, the 24 Elders represent the Priesthood, and what does Rev. 5:9-10 call us the Church in heaven? LOOK BELOW !!

Rev. 5:9 And they (Church) sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain(Jesus), and hast redeemed us(Church) to God by thy blood(Jesus) out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation(The Church is in EVERY Nation);

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests {24 Orders of the Priesthood} and we shall reign on the earth.

So, the 24 Elders is just a CODE telling everyone this is the Church in Heaven, who OVERCAME, many were faithful unto DEATH, and they are all Kings and Priests because they were washed and purged in the blood of Jesus.

Revelation is very DEEP, guessing will not cut it, these codes can be solved with hard work and prayer.
 
May 13, 2016
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#52
Yes. We are seeing an appointed order of ministers in the inner tabernacle of heaven. There is order in heaven.

There is a paralell of special service in the inner sanctuaries.
24 appointed priests commanded by God for the temple on Earth.
24 Elders representing all nations serve at the throne room in Heaven. -



1 Chr 24:19
"This was their appointed order of ministering when they entered the temple of the Lord, according to the regulations
prescribed for them by their ancestor Aaron, as the Lord, the God of Israel, had commanded him"


Rev 4:4
Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders.
They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads.
Boom, someone gets it !! Even if these are 24 actual people in Heaven, they represent the Raptured Church in Heaven, who are Kings and Priests unto God.

I tend to see it as just a code for the 24 Orders of the Priesthood showing us all to be Kins and Priests via Jesus' blood, but it could be 24 men who represent the Church, either way, they show a Pre Trib Rapture in Heaven.
 
May 13, 2016
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#53
Neither. Heaven was created before the Israel before gentiles. Also, the vision is of the Lamb entering Heaven to the right hand of the Throne. Jesus is the Father of Eternity, First to be resurrected.

They are angelic.
Both because Jews are in the Church.
 
May 13, 2016
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#54
Revelation 7 is when the 144000 is filled. It presents the redeemed. There is no "distinction" in those verses indicating they were of the redeemed. Remember they sat around the throne before the Lamb arrived. There will be no resurrection till Christian martyrdom is full (5th Seal)
The Rapture of the Church happens, then the Jews Repent (144,000 is CODE for ALL Israel who repents). Gentiles who missed the Rapture (the 5 Virgins with no oil) and come unto Jesus after the Rapture are the Martyrs as seen in the 5th Seal. So, until you understand the timing of the Rapture you will just be down rabbit holes.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
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#55
In Revelation 4:4 John speaks of 24 Elders seated around the Throne of God, clothed in white raiment and on their heads crowns of gold. Its been said that 12 of them are most likely the apostles that were with Christ during His ministry on Earth and that 12 are the heads or fathers of each of the 12 tribes of Israel ( the 12 sons of Jacob ). This appears to make sense since in Revelation 21:12 it mentions that the names of the 12 tribes of the children is Israel are written on the gates of the city of New Jerusalem and that the city had 12 foundations on which were the names of the 12 apostles of the Lamb ( Rev. 21:14 ) . Comments ?
I did a blog on this, you can find it Here
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
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#56
.
The Greek word translated "elders" is presbuteros (pres-boo'-ter-os) and it's
not limited to males. According to 1Tim 5:2, the word includes women.

In many of its uses in the New Testament, presbuteros implies age and
experience rather than especially members of an ecclesiastical hierarchy. In
other words: elders are the wise seniors among us in contrast to the brash
young know-it-alls; and it's my educated guess that those 24 elders in
Revelation represent the cream of the crop, i.e. wisest of the wise.
_
 
Jul 24, 2021
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#57
Both because Jews are in the Church.
No.
The vision is like the tabernacle per Ezekiel 1. The 4 wheels are of the 4 cherubim (seraphim beasts). The Ark was in the Holy of Holies where only the High Priest can go. Around him are the cultic rank priesthood servicing the tabernacle. The same applies to the temple. Those things are of the earth. The 24 seats/elders are of heaven.

There is no redemption in actuality till the Great White Throne. No jews or gentiles. Just the Angelic Host.
 
Jul 24, 2021
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#58
The Rapture of the Church happens, then the Jews Repent (144,000 is CODE for ALL Israel who repents). Gentiles who missed the Rapture (the 5 Virgins with no oil) and come unto Jesus after the Rapture are the Martyrs as seen in the 5th Seal. So, until you understand the timing of the Rapture you will just be down rabbit holes.
Rapture theology is unscriptural. What is supernatural is NOT magical, just rare. There is no timing, just signs and a thief in the night.

We will formally greet the Messiah as the King with the Iron Sceptre, in reverence and obedience. Not up in the air.
 
May 13, 2016
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#59
I did a blog on this, you can find it Here
The 144,000 are the Jews, songs we sing on earth are heard (naturally) in heaven. REMEMBER in Rev. 8 where the Prayers of the Saints on earth were poured out at the throne of God, and God then gathered those prayers up and hurled them back down t earth in the form of fire/judgment. So, the 144,000 sing a NEW SONG because they are freely saved Jews and their journey was different from the Church, who is now in Heaven Raptured, the Jews are the Wheat they had to be CRUSHED before they could be sifted, the 70th week is that tribulation/70th week that crushed the Wheat/Jewish people so they could be sifted. The word tribulation comes from a machine called the TRIBULUM in the Greek language, thus this machine CRUSHED the Wheat where it could later be sifted.

The Church is the Barley, and barley doesn't need to be CRUSHED before it can be sifted. No one can sing the same song as the 3-5 million Jews who repent (144,000 is a CODE as in 12 = fullness and 10 = completeness and thus 12 x 12 x 1- x 10 x 10 is God SHOUTING this is ALL Israel who repents).
 
May 13, 2016
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#60
Rapture theology is unscriptural. What is supernatural is NOT magical, just rare. There is no timing, just signs and a thief in the night.

We will formally greet the Messiah as the King with the Iron Sceptre, in reverence and obedience. Not up in the air.
Paul gave us the Rapture understanding via goi g to Heaven and being explained it......SMH.