This is my beloved Son
- Thread starter journey41
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:1-3
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 1:14
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:1-3
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 1:14
C
This is a fault of the very simple english language. The greek word for Lord in this verse is Kurios, which is also the word used in the greek old testament when translating the hebrew word YHWH.
You seem to ignore so much to find a couple of verses which might say what you want them to say. If most of the bible say Jesus the Messiah is God and a couple of verses SEEM to question that which do you think is right?
John 1: 1-5
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend[a] it.
In the first verse we see that the Word(Jesus), was with God and was God.
The next verse tell us that all things were made through Jesus, so lets go to the beginning.
Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.", who created? God. Lets take a quick look at the word used for God here, Elohim. Elohim is a plural word, here is the first indication that our God is ONE but as we learn later is Three in One.
Genesis 1:26-27 "Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them." God uses the word "OUR" here is the second indication that our God is ONE but as we learn later is Three in One.
Isaiah 9:6-7 " 6 For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of His government and peace
There will be no end,
Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom,
To order it and establish it with judgment and justice
From that time forward, even forever.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this."
This is one of my favourite Messianic prophecy. One because it is one of the most clear indication that Jesus is indeed God. Two because its a picture of God as a whole two showing that despite their roles that they are one and sharing of these titles. "And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." In the bible the Father is often referred to Mighty God, Jesus is labelled the Prince of Peace, and the Holy Spirit is called the counselor, but here we see the Messiah(Jesus) being given all these titles in one.
Matthew 26:59-65 "59 Now the chief priests, the elders,[g] and all the council sought false testimony against Jesus to put Him to death, 60 but found none. Even though many false witnesses came forward, they found none.[h] But at last two false witnesses[i] came forward 61 and said, “This fellow said, ‘I am able to destroy the temple of God and to build it in three days.’”
62 And the high priest arose and said to Him, “Do You answer nothing? What is it these men testify against You?” 63 But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest answered and said to Him, “I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!”
64 Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
65 Then the high priest tore his clothes, saying, “He has spoken blasphemy! What further need do we have of witnesses? Look, now you have heard His blasphemy!"
The high priest tore his clothes and said Jesus had spoken blasphemy, which meant he claimed to be God, but wait. . .he only claimed to be the Son of God. That means that the Jews understood something we often seem to miss, that the Son IS God, just as the Father IS God, otherwise what he claimed would not have been considered blasphemy by those who did not believe him.
John 16:13-15 "13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you."
Jesus claims that all things that the Father has are his, he doesn't say some, a few things, but ALL, that means everything which would include His Essence.
Philippians 2:5-7 "5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men."
Here we see Jesus was in the form of God and was equal to God AND took on the form of Man by his own power. Now then lets look at Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God." Who caused the birth of Jesus? It says the Holy Spirit will come upon you(Mary) and the power of the Highest (Most High) will overshadow you. So who is the Most High? God, now put that in context of the Philippians passage. Jesus is also the Most High.
Micah 5:2-3 " 2 “ But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
Though you are little among the thousands of Judah,
Yet out of you shall come forth to Me
The One to be Ruler in Israel,
Whose goings forth are from of old,
From everlasting.”
3 Therefore He shall give them up,
Until the time that she who is in labor has given birth;
Then the remnant of His brethren
Shall return to the children of Israel. "
This tells us that the Messiah (Jesus) is from everlasting, that he is eternal. and that he will give that up to be born.
Hebrews 1:8-12 "But to the Son He says:
“ Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
10 And:
“ You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
11 They will perish, but You remain;
And they will all grow old like a garment;
12 Like a cloak You will fold them up,
And they will be changed.
But You are the same,
And Your years will not fail.”
Here is another very clear picture of Jesus, the SON, as God.
I can go on all day and will if you would like. The bible as a whole is very, very clear. Jesus IS God, the Son. I find it sad that people refuse to accept this obvious truth. People say if it doesn't make sense it can't be true so they search the scriptures to find ways to make it untrue and take things out of context doing it. Yet how many things in this world have people believed to be impossible that have been proven true throughout the centuries.
AGAIN I ask if the Bible is clear about something being true should you throw that away because you feel you found a couple of verses that at first glance seem to contradict this or should you look at those verses in the context of the overwhelming truth?
You seem to ignore so much to find a couple of verses which might say what you want them to say. If most of the bible say Jesus the Messiah is God and a couple of verses SEEM to question that which do you think is right?
John 1: 1-5
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend[a] it.
In the first verse we see that the Word(Jesus), was with God and was God.
The next verse tell us that all things were made through Jesus, so lets go to the beginning.
Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.", who created? God. Lets take a quick look at the word used for God here, Elohim. Elohim is a plural word, here is the first indication that our God is ONE but as we learn later is Three in One.
Genesis 1:26-27 "Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them." God uses the word "OUR" here is the second indication that our God is ONE but as we learn later is Three in One.
Isaiah 9:6-7 " 6 For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of His government and peace
There will be no end,
Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom,
To order it and establish it with judgment and justice
From that time forward, even forever.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this."
This is one of my favourite Messianic prophecy. One because it is one of the most clear indication that Jesus is indeed God. Two because its a picture of God as a whole two showing that despite their roles that they are one and sharing of these titles. "And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." In the bible the Father is often referred to Mighty God, Jesus is labelled the Prince of Peace, and the Holy Spirit is called the counselor, but here we see the Messiah(Jesus) being given all these titles in one.
Matthew 26:59-65 "59 Now the chief priests, the elders,[g] and all the council sought false testimony against Jesus to put Him to death, 60 but found none. Even though many false witnesses came forward, they found none.[h] But at last two false witnesses[i] came forward 61 and said, “This fellow said, ‘I am able to destroy the temple of God and to build it in three days.’”
62 And the high priest arose and said to Him, “Do You answer nothing? What is it these men testify against You?” 63 But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest answered and said to Him, “I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!”
64 Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
65 Then the high priest tore his clothes, saying, “He has spoken blasphemy! What further need do we have of witnesses? Look, now you have heard His blasphemy!"
The high priest tore his clothes and said Jesus had spoken blasphemy, which meant he claimed to be God, but wait. . .he only claimed to be the Son of God. That means that the Jews understood something we often seem to miss, that the Son IS God, just as the Father IS God, otherwise what he claimed would not have been considered blasphemy by those who did not believe him.
John 16:13-15 "13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you."
Jesus claims that all things that the Father has are his, he doesn't say some, a few things, but ALL, that means everything which would include His Essence.
Philippians 2:5-7 "5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men."
Here we see Jesus was in the form of God and was equal to God AND took on the form of Man by his own power. Now then lets look at Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God." Who caused the birth of Jesus? It says the Holy Spirit will come upon you(Mary) and the power of the Highest (Most High) will overshadow you. So who is the Most High? God, now put that in context of the Philippians passage. Jesus is also the Most High.
Micah 5:2-3 " 2 “ But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
Though you are little among the thousands of Judah,
Yet out of you shall come forth to Me
The One to be Ruler in Israel,
Whose goings forth are from of old,
From everlasting.”
3 Therefore He shall give them up,
Until the time that she who is in labor has given birth;
Then the remnant of His brethren
Shall return to the children of Israel. "
This tells us that the Messiah (Jesus) is from everlasting, that he is eternal. and that he will give that up to be born.
Hebrews 1:8-12 "But to the Son He says:
“ Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
10 And:
“ You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
11 They will perish, but You remain;
And they will all grow old like a garment;
12 Like a cloak You will fold them up,
And they will be changed.
But You are the same,
And Your years will not fail.”
Here is another very clear picture of Jesus, the SON, as God.
I can go on all day and will if you would like. The bible as a whole is very, very clear. Jesus IS God, the Son. I find it sad that people refuse to accept this obvious truth. People say if it doesn't make sense it can't be true so they search the scriptures to find ways to make it untrue and take things out of context doing it. Yet how many things in this world have people believed to be impossible that have been proven true throughout the centuries.
AGAIN I ask if the Bible is clear about something being true should you throw that away because you feel you found a couple of verses that at first glance seem to contradict this or should you look at those verses in the context of the overwhelming truth?
There is no need to go on all day. I suspect you couldn't go much further than you have. I appreciate your concern, but believe you misinterpret and misunderstand those verses you use. For example, God did not become flesh, His word did. We have God's written word and His living word, Jesus Christ. Is the bible God? Jesus Christ makes known God, his Father. He is the second Adam. Jesus Christ DIED, God cannot die. Jesus Christ DID NOT WANT TO GO THROUGH what he did. He prayed three times to God to have the "cup" removed. If he was God, what's the problem? Jesus Christ had to be a man in order to redeem man.
Rom 5:15) But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
The bible plainly states in many places that Jesus Christ is a man. Recognizing who he is takes absolutely nothing away from him, and in fact makes what he accomplished more incredible. And, it keeps the truth that there is "one God, the Father".
Rom 5:15) But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
The bible plainly states in many places that Jesus Christ is a man. Recognizing who he is takes absolutely nothing away from him, and in fact makes what he accomplished more incredible. And, it keeps the truth that there is "one God, the Father".
Whats UP with THIS?
this Thread started with NOTHING More than The Word of GOD.Journey may not have total enlightenment, But she obviousley believes in GOD in and through CHRIST.
She's Banned on a DISSCUSION forum for speaking OUT about LOVE?
OUR FATHER LOVE in which CHRIST IS Totaly REPRESENTITIVE OF, IN Word, WILL & Spirit; However EVEN in POWER Pales in Comparrison to OUR Father's PHYSICAL FORCE, of Nothing More than FAIRNESS TO ALL & TO ALL A GOODNIGHT
Just wait Until HE Exercises THAT WILL upon US
You BETTER pray that you DON"T be in NEED of Teaching 99.9% Truth: IS NOT TRUTH
And YOUR Enemy KNOWS 100
% Be Careful,Lest YOU Be DECEIVED
CHRIST HAS an Issue with 5 of the 7 Church's in Revelation's
YOU, have left OUR First LOVE: OUR FATHER: HIS MAJESTY
HE that RULE"S in FAIRNESS, EVERYWHERE & FOREVER
THAT"S THAT (amen)
C
And before anyone dashes of of comes back from Wikipedia or elsewhere with some bunk representation of what I mean by Unitarian
I mean Jesus is God.., and was God manifest in the flesh who walked among us. Died for our sins and was resurrected from the dead.
How did Jesus raise himself from the dead if he was dead you may ask?
Only the soul goes to Sheol.., the Spirit returns to the Father. And the Holy Spirits love for the sinless soul redeemed Jesus from the grave
Song of Solomon: For love is as unyielding as the grave!
I mean Jesus is God.., and was God manifest in the flesh who walked among us. Died for our sins and was resurrected from the dead.
How did Jesus raise himself from the dead if he was dead you may ask?
Only the soul goes to Sheol.., the Spirit returns to the Father. And the Holy Spirits love for the sinless soul redeemed Jesus from the grave
Song of Solomon: For love is as unyielding as the grave!
C
First I could and probably will give you more. If Jesus was just a man then he could not exist from eternity and if he was just a man he would be born into sin like the rest of us and he thus would not be perfect and his dying on the cross would have no value. The only way for the debt of sin to be paid was a perfect sacrifice. I feel sorry for those who try and convince that Jesus was just a man and nothing more, because you are explaining away your salvation. You tell me how you would interpret a verse that says "And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace" or "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God", etc. Read the Gospels, the Jews knew what he was claiming to be.
He existed in God's foreknowledge. He was first promised in Gen 3:15. He came into being in Matt 1:18.
He is THE SON OF GOD. God is literally his father. Jesus did not inherit the sin nature every other man has.
He was the perfect sacrifice. The only sinless man.
He is not "just a man". He is the only begotten Son of God, who always did his Father's will, then gave his life. God, his father, then raised him from the dead. Understanding that Jesus Christ is a man is not "explaining away salvation". It is understanding salvation.
That's his NAME.
I addressed that above. God's WORD was God. God delivered His word to us in two ways, written and living. Jesus Christ always did his father's will. That's why he said "he who has seen me has seen the Father".
Yes. The Son of God, the promised Messiah. If they thought he was claiming to be God they would have simply blown him off as a lunatic. Instead, they persecuted and killed him because they didn't want to lose their religious position and authority (among other things).
He is THE SON OF GOD. God is literally his father. Jesus did not inherit the sin nature every other man has.
He was the perfect sacrifice. The only sinless man.
He is not "just a man". He is the only begotten Son of God, who always did his Father's will, then gave his life. God, his father, then raised him from the dead. Understanding that Jesus Christ is a man is not "explaining away salvation". It is understanding salvation.
That's his NAME.
I addressed that above. God's WORD was God. God delivered His word to us in two ways, written and living. Jesus Christ always did his father's will. That's why he said "he who has seen me has seen the Father".
Yes. The Son of God, the promised Messiah. If they thought he was claiming to be God they would have simply blown him off as a lunatic. Instead, they persecuted and killed him because they didn't want to lose their religious position and authority (among other things).
C
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadaNZ
First I could and probably will give you more. If Jesus was just a man then he could not exist from eternity
He existed in God's foreknowledge. He was first promised in Gen 3:15. He came into being in Matt 1:18. Then exactly how were all things created through him, refer to John 1.
Quote:
and if he was just a man he would be born into sin like the rest of us and he thus would not be perfect and his dying on the cross would have no value.
He is THE SON OF GOD. God is literally his father. Jesus did not inherit the sin nature every other man has. If you want to debate semantics then technically that would make him part God, which would complicate your universe of only one God. But refer to the Philippians and Hebrews passages, your argument doesn't stand up to that.
Quote:
The only way for the debt of sin to be paid was a perfect sacrifice.
He was the perfect sacrifice. The only sinless man.
Quote:
I feel sorry for those who try and convince that Jesus was just a man and nothing more, because you are explaining away your salvation.
He is not "just a man". He is the only begotten Son of God, who always did his Father's will, then gave his life. God, his father, then raised him from the dead. Understanding that Jesus Christ is a man is not "explaining away salvation". It is understanding salvation. Yes it does explain away salvation because if man was capable of being completely sinless on his own we wouldn't have been in that mess in the first place. Adam had God as a friend and teacher and he still messed up.
Quote:
You tell me how you would interpret a verse that says "And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace"
That's his NAME. Hmm so his name is Mighty God. . .but he is not God. . . .
Quote:
or "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God", etc.
I addressed that above. God's WORD was God. God delivered His word to us in two ways, written and living. Jesus Christ always did his father's will. That's why he said "he who has seen me has seen the Father". Read on it says the WORD became flesh(Jesus) and dwelt among us.
Quote:
Read the Gospels, the Jews knew what he was claiming to be.
Yes. The Son of God, the promised Messiah. If they thought he was claiming to be God they would have simply blown him off as a lunatic. Instead, they persecuted and killed him because they didn't want to lose their religious position and authority (among other things). Yes because claiming to be the messiah is blasphemy, if that were the case then Jesus sinned by claiming it. Blasphemy is claiming to be God or claiming God is not who he claims to be.
Originally Posted by CanadaNZ
First I could and probably will give you more. If Jesus was just a man then he could not exist from eternity
He existed in God's foreknowledge. He was first promised in Gen 3:15. He came into being in Matt 1:18. Then exactly how were all things created through him, refer to John 1.
Quote:
and if he was just a man he would be born into sin like the rest of us and he thus would not be perfect and his dying on the cross would have no value.
He is THE SON OF GOD. God is literally his father. Jesus did not inherit the sin nature every other man has. If you want to debate semantics then technically that would make him part God, which would complicate your universe of only one God. But refer to the Philippians and Hebrews passages, your argument doesn't stand up to that.
Quote:
The only way for the debt of sin to be paid was a perfect sacrifice.
He was the perfect sacrifice. The only sinless man.
Quote:
I feel sorry for those who try and convince that Jesus was just a man and nothing more, because you are explaining away your salvation.
He is not "just a man". He is the only begotten Son of God, who always did his Father's will, then gave his life. God, his father, then raised him from the dead. Understanding that Jesus Christ is a man is not "explaining away salvation". It is understanding salvation. Yes it does explain away salvation because if man was capable of being completely sinless on his own we wouldn't have been in that mess in the first place. Adam had God as a friend and teacher and he still messed up.
Quote:
You tell me how you would interpret a verse that says "And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace"
That's his NAME. Hmm so his name is Mighty God. . .but he is not God. . . .
Quote:
or "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God", etc.
I addressed that above. God's WORD was God. God delivered His word to us in two ways, written and living. Jesus Christ always did his father's will. That's why he said "he who has seen me has seen the Father". Read on it says the WORD became flesh(Jesus) and dwelt among us.
Quote:
Read the Gospels, the Jews knew what he was claiming to be.
Yes. The Son of God, the promised Messiah. If they thought he was claiming to be God they would have simply blown him off as a lunatic. Instead, they persecuted and killed him because they didn't want to lose their religious position and authority (among other things). Yes because claiming to be the messiah is blasphemy, if that were the case then Jesus sinned by claiming it. Blasphemy is claiming to be God or claiming God is not who he claims to be.
Quote:Originally Posted by CanadaNZ
First I could and probably will give you more. If Jesus was just a man then he could not exist from eternity
He existed in God's foreknowledge. He was first promised in Gen 3:15. He came into being in Matt 1:18. Then exactly how were all things created through him, refer to John 1.
First I could and probably will give you more. If Jesus was just a man then he could not exist from eternity
He existed in God's foreknowledge. He was first promised in Gen 3:15. He came into being in Matt 1:18. Then exactly how were all things created through him, refer to John 1.
God did not have sex with Mary, He created the sperm. It's the only time He did that. Jesus is a man, the only begotten Son of God.
Adam was NOT incapable of being sinless. He had sinless blood, as Christ did. Adam CHOSE to disobey God, Jesus Christ CHOSE not to.
That is correct. Just as he is not the "everlasting Father". Those are characteristics of his name. Only God, the Father, is God.
Right. God's Word became flesh. Jesus Christ is the living word, as the bible is God's written word. God did not become flesh. God is spirit.
Claiming to be the Messiah is blasphemy if you're not the Messiah. Jesus is the Messiah. Jesus never claimed to be God. He claimed to be the Son of God, which he was, and is.