50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

lamad

Active member
Apr 14, 2021
789
49
28
Paul dosent need to fill any theme, The Greek "Apostasia" (Departure/Falling Away) isn't a Pre-Trib Rapture Of The Church To Heaven, it's that simple :giggle:
On the contrary, if Paul tells us he is going to write about the gathering, then somehow forgets the gathering, he has a problem. But not to worry, He told them he was to write about the gathering and then he included it - as the departing.

When the church leaves in the rapture, are they not "departing?" Will it not be a part of a whole [group] taken away from that whole group as Strongs defines "apo?" And will this gathering take place SO FAST it will seem as if the world is standing still?

Remember, Paul's purpose was to answer them: without a doubt they had written to him else how would he know that they thought the DAY and come? He was to answer them about the Day of the Lord and how anyone could know for SURE that the DAY had come.

If people see a very significant departing as in the rapture. That would be significant. And then they see the man of sin revealed. Those two things are proof positive that the DAY has started. In Revelation we see the DAY starting at the 6th seal, and the revealing in chapter 11 - the same order Paul wrote.

Note that in every Greek manuscript, the "the" is included before apostasia: THE apostasia: a very significant departing.

Question: if Paul had meant a falling away, how would anyone know when ENOUGH Had fallen away to be "THE apostasia?"

Finally, when some fall away, MORE COME. The church is growing, not shrinking!
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,708
2,496
113
Why not dig deeper and get Strong's answer for BOTH WORDS of this compound word?
The question is, CAN this word mean something else? It is a compound word - "apo" and "stasia."

Here is what STrong's says about "apo:
of separation... ...of local separation,

after verbs of motion from a place i.e. of departing, of fleeing,...

of separation of a part from the whole......where of a whole some part is taken

of any kind of separation of one thing from another by which the union or fellowship of the two is destroyed

of a state of separation, that is of distance...physical, of distance of place



At the rapture, will some part of the entire population be taken? You know the answer is YES.

Will those taken be separated by DISTANCE? Again the answer is YES.

The other part of the compound word 'stasia" is where we get "stationary" or "not moving" from.

Putting these two words together then can certainly mean a part of a whole group suddenly moved from where they were to a new location, and it happen so fast, the rest of the whole group seems stationary - not moving.

We must consider the entire passage to determine Paul's meaning, else we pull a word or a verse out of its context.

Because in 3b Paul wrote that the man of sin IS REVEALED, then somewhere in 3a the power restraining the main of sin had to be taken out of the way.

If you choose to believe a "falling away" (from what Paul did not specify) fits Paul's "taken out of the way," it is your choice.
If you think Paul wrote "and now you know what restrains" just to fill in space, it is your choice.
If you choose the Day of Christ over the Day of the Lord which Paul used in His first letter, again it is your choice.

If words mean anything, Paul explains exactly what must take place before the man of sin can be revealed, yet we find he IS revealed in 3b, showing us that the restraining force had to have been taken out of the way in 3a.

Questions you might ask yourself: WHY did Paul write "and now you know... in verse 6? Do you now know?
Why did Paul explain the power restraining the man of sin, preventing him from being revealed before His time?
Why did Paul tell us the man of sin "is revealed" in 3b?

Paul COULD have just written that they were mistaken, they were not in the day of the Lord. Instead he chose to explain how people can know for sure when they are IN the Day of the Lord: they have to see a very significant departing FIRST, then they have to see the man of sin revealed. When people see these two things, it is proof positive the DAY has started and they are IN IT.

I might add, is this not the exact pattern we find in Revelation? We see the start of the Day at the 6th seal, but right after that, John saw the raptured church in heaven, as the great crowd too large to number.

This is also the same pattern Paul gave us in his first letter: rapture first, wrath next.
No need to dig deeper, The Greek "Apostasia" (Departure/Falling Away) isn't a Pre-Trib Rapture Of The Church To Heaven, it's that simple :giggle:
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,708
2,496
113
On the contrary, if Paul tells us he is going to write about the gathering, then somehow forgets the gathering, he has a problem. But not to worry, He told them he was to write about the gathering and then he included it - as the departing.

When the church leaves in the rapture, are they not "departing?" Will it not be a part of a whole [group] taken away from that whole group as Strongs defines "apo?" And will this gathering take place SO FAST it will seem as if the world is standing still?

Remember, Paul's purpose was to answer them: without a doubt they had written to him else how would he know that they thought the DAY and come? He was to answer them about the Day of the Lord and how anyone could know for SURE that the DAY had come.

If people see a very significant departing as in the rapture. That would be significant. And then they see the man of sin revealed. Those two things are proof positive that the DAY has started. In Revelation we see the DAY starting at the 6th seal, and the revealing in chapter 11 - the same order Paul wrote.

Note that in every Greek manuscript, the "the" is included before apostasia: THE apostasia: a very significant departing.

Question: if Paul had meant a falling away, how would anyone know when ENOUGH Had fallen away to be "THE apostasia?"

Finally, when some fall away, MORE COME. The church is growing, not shrinking!
The Greek "Apostasia" (Departure/Falling Away) isn't a Pre-Trib Rapture Of The Church To Heaven, it's that simple :giggle:

Apostasia: (Defection From Truth)(Apostasy) (Falling Away) (Forsake) Who You Trying To Fool (Yourself) :giggle:

Will you continue in rebellion of the presented truth?

Lexicon :: Strong's G646 - apostasia

Strong’s Definitions
ἀποστασία apostasía, ap-os-tas-ee'-ah; feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):—falling away, forsake.

KJV Translation Count — Total: 2x
The KJV translates Strong's G646 in the following manner: to forsake (with G575) (1x), falling away (1x).
 

lamad

Active member
Apr 14, 2021
789
49
28
No need to dig deeper, The Greek "Apostasia" (Departure/Falling Away) isn't a Pre-Trib Rapture Of The Church To Heaven, it's that simple :giggle:
Then you have to explain how a falling away can be the power restraining the Beast from being revealed before his time being "taken out of the way." Please explain that.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,708
2,496
113
Then you have to explain how a falling away can be the power restraining the Beast from being revealed before his time being "taken out of the way." Please explain that.
No Need To Explain Anything, Scripture Speaks For Itself, You Disregard This Simple Truth, With A Desire To Promote A False Interpretation Of "Apostasia"

The Greek "Apostasia" (Departure/Falling Away) isn't a Pre-Trib Rapture Of The Church To Heaven, it's that simple :giggle:

Apostasia: (Defection From Truth)(Apostasy) (Falling Away) (Forsake) Who You Trying To Fool (Yourself) :giggle:

Will you continue in rebellion of the presented truth?

Lexicon :: Strong's G646 - apostasia

Strong’s Definitions
ἀποστασία apostasía, ap-os-tas-ee'-ah; feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):—falling away, forsake.

KJV Translation Count — Total: 2x
The KJV translates Strong's G646 in the following manner: to forsake (with G575) (1x), falling away (1x).
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
2,869
1,916
113
On the contrary, if Paul tells us he is going to write about the gathering, then somehow forgets the gathering, he has a problem. But not to worry, He told them he was to write about the gathering and then he included it - as the departing.

When the church leaves in the rapture, are they not "departing?" Will it not be a part of a whole [group] taken away from that whole group as Strongs defines "apo?" And will this gathering take place SO FAST it will seem as if the world is standing still?

Remember, Paul's purpose was to answer them: without a doubt they had written to him else how would he know that they thought the DAY and come? He was to answer them about the Day of the Lord and how anyone could know for SURE that the DAY had come.

If people see a very significant departing as in the rapture. That would be significant. And then they see the man of sin revealed. Those two things are proof positive that the DAY has started. In Revelation we see the DAY starting at the 6th seal, and the revealing in chapter 11 - the same order Paul wrote.

Note that in every Greek manuscript, the "the" is included before apostasia: THE apostasia: a very significant departing.

Question: if Paul had meant a falling away, how would anyone know when ENOUGH Had fallen away to be "THE apostasia?"

Finally, when some fall away, MORE COME. The church is growing, not shrinking!
Still doesn't fit into the sequence of events as described in 2 Thessalonians 2. They won't be going anywhere until the day of Christ is at hand.

Before the day of Christ is at hand comes the man of sin. A study of who the man of sin is, the one who sits in the temple according to Revelation 13, is none other than the anti-Christ.

Meaning that if the anti-Christ has already arrived then those who will be gathered to Christ are still here for the great tribulation.

Of course I was just entertaining your theory just to show you it's not plausible even under your own rules.

The scripture in 2 Thess. 2:1-3 can't be interpreted to mean a pre-trib rapture.
 

lamad

Active member
Apr 14, 2021
789
49
28
No Need To Explain Anything, Scripture Speaks For Itself, You Disregard This Simple Truth, With A Desire To Promote A False Interpretation Of "Apostasia"

The Greek "Apostasia" (Departure/Falling Away) isn't a Pre-Trib Rapture Of The Church To Heaven, it's that simple :giggle:

Apostasia: (Defection From Truth)(Apostasy) (Falling Away) (Forsake) Who You Trying To Fool (Yourself) :giggle:

Will you continue in rebellion of the presented truth?

Lexicon :: Strong's G646 - apostasia

Strong’s Definitions
ἀποστασία apostasía, ap-os-tas-ee'-ah; feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):—falling away, forsake.

KJV Translation Count — Total: 2x
The KJV translates Strong's G646 in the following manner: to forsake (with G575) (1x), falling away (1x).
The simple truth is, Paul wrote that word apostasia in a sentence, and the sentence in a passage answering a question about the rapture. I cannot pull that word out of its context. It seems you have no problem doing that.

Again you must explain how a falling away can allow the man of sin to be revealed.
Along with that, explain why Paul wrote, "and now you know what is restraining."

You see, there is much more to a verse in a passage than ONE WORD. Are you building a doctrine on one word, and ignoring the passage?
This is not rebellion, it is wisdom. Perhaps you have not been confronted with it before.

Just to be sure you understand, apostasia must be understood in its context. Part of that context is the man of sin revealed. So far you have ignored that. Please explain HOW the man of sin "is revealed."
 

lamad

Active member
Apr 14, 2021
789
49
28
Still doesn't fit into the sequence of events as described in 2 Thessalonians 2. They won't be going anywhere until the day of Christ is at hand.

Before the day of Christ is at hand comes the man of sin. A study of who the man of sin is, the one who sits in the temple according to Revelation 13, is none other than the anti-Christ.

Meaning that if the anti-Christ has already arrived then those who will be gathered to Christ are still here for the great tribulation.

Of course I was just entertaining your theory just to show you it's not plausible even under your own rules.

The scripture in 2 Thess. 2:1-3 can't be interpreted to mean a pre-trib rapture.
You are missing the Greek Tenses. it is not so much as "at hand." They thought the Day had come and was present: they were IN IT.

2 Not to allow your minds to be quickly unsettled or disturbed or kept excited or alarmed, whether it be by some [pretended] revelation of [the] Spirit or by word or by letter [alleged to be] from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has [already] arrived and is here. (Amp)

Look: if you want to go through the days of GT, I believe God will leave you behind so you get what you are believing. But WHY when God has made a way of escape? Do you not understand what being overcome means? You will end up one of those talked about in the first verses of Rev. 15.

Your logic really isn't.
From Paul in 1 Thes 4 & 5, it is rapture first, then wrath.
From John in Revelation: it is rapture first, then wrath. John saw the church in heaven before any trumpet or vial of God's wrath.
This is exactly Paul's progression here: rapture first as the departing, then wrath as the Day of the Lord.
 

lamad

Active member
Apr 14, 2021
789
49
28
Still doesn't fit into the sequence of events as described in 2 Thessalonians 2. They won't be going anywhere until the day of Christ is at hand.

Before the day of Christ is at hand comes the man of sin. A study of who the man of sin is, the one who sits in the temple according to Revelation 13, is none other than the anti-Christ.

Meaning that if the anti-Christ has already arrived then those who will be gathered to Christ are still here for the great tribulation.

Of course I was just entertaining your theory just to show you it's not plausible even under your own rules.

The scripture in 2 Thess. 2:1-3 can't be interpreted to mean a pre-trib rapture.
Of course it can. And it must of things are to be left in context.
 
Feb 22, 2021
499
133
43
Midwest
It is not an easy text, because even the Greek texts * differ on whether Paul wrote the Day of Christ or the Day of the Lord. Since Paul wrote of the Day of the Lord in his first letter, I favor the Day of the Lord in his second letter.
Precious friend, I favor The Day Of CHRIST, because of this:

Day Of CHRIST {gr: Christos *} vs Day Of The LORD {gr: Kurios}!
----------------- { Also The Day Of God [gr: Theos]! }:

Obeying God's Command In 2 Timothy 2 : 15, we have This!:

According To the preaching of JESUS CHRIST, In The Revelation
Of The Mystery! (Romans - Philemon!) = "The Day Of CHRIST!"


Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2 : 15!) From "Things That DIFFER":

According to God's "Prophetic" Program in: Daniel,
Matthew, And Revelation! = "The Day Of The LORD!"

q: WHY would ANYONE In The Body of CHRIST,
"Today, desire" The Day Of The LORD?:


When God Inspired HIS "prophet" Amos to pen THIS!:

"WOE Unto you that desire The Day Of The LORD!
To what end is it for you?...


...The Day Of The LORD Is Darkness, and not light...Shall not
The Day Of The LORD be Darkness, And Not light? Even Very
Dark, And No brightness in it?"
(Amos 5 : 18, 20!)
------------------
"Expanded" For "Clarification!":

According To the preaching of JESUS CHRIST, In The Revelation
Of The Mystery! (Romans - Philemon!), "The Day Of CHRIST!" =


The "Judgment Day" Of The Heavenly Body Of CHRIST, who Will Be
Taken Home To Heaven { LIGHT! },
For "shame... ...rewards, rejoicing,
And reigning!"
(1 Corinthians 3 : 8-15 KJB!) Amen?:

“That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit
nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that The Day Of CHRIST is at
hand."
(2 Thessalonians 2 : 2 KJB!)

“Who Shall Confirm you Unto the end, that ye may be blameless
In The Day Of our LORD JESUS CHRIST!"
(1 Corinthians 1 : 8!)

“To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh,
that the spirit may be saved In The Day Of The LORD JESUS!"

(1 Corinthians 5 : 5!)

“As also ye have acknowledged us in part, that we are your rejoicing,
even as ye also are ours in the In The Day Of The LORD JESUS!"

(2 Corinthians 1 : 14!)

“Being confident Of This Very Thing, That HE Which Hath Begun A
Good Work In you, Will Perform It Until The Day Of JESUS CHRIST!"

(Philippians 1 : 6!)

“That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye
may be sincere and without offence till The Day Of CHRIST!"

(Philippians 1 : 10!)

“Holding forth The WORD Of Life; that I may rejoice in
The Day Of CHRIST that I have not run in vain, neither
laboured in vain."
(Philippians 2 : 16!)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2 : 15!) From "Things That DIFFER":

According To "Prophecy!":

The Day Of The LORD / "earthly" Israel / nations! in judgment /
wrath / battle / destruction / terror / DARKNESS / horror / pain! =

--------------------- Time Of JACOB's Trouble!!:

“The Day Of The LORD!” is common throughout the Old Testament.
The prophets referred constantly to it. In the New Testament,
The LORD JESUS CHRIST,
Paul, and Peter referred to It! Some of
the Many Passages are the following:

Isaiah 2 : 11-12, 17, 13 : 4-6, 9, 13, 34 : 8; Jeremiah 46 : 10;
Ezekiel 13 : 5, 30 : 3; Joel 1 : 15, 2 : 1, 11, 31, 3 : 14;
Amos 5 : 18, 20; Obadiah 1 : 15; Zephaniah 1 : 7, 14;
Zechariah 14 : 1; Malachi 4 : 5; Matthew 24 : 1-51;
Acts 2 : 20; Romans 2 : 5; 1 Thessalonians 5 : 2;
2 Peter 3 : 10; Revelation 1 : 10;

compare: "That Day" in Isaiah 2 : 11, 17, 20, 3 : 18.

"That Day" is a time of terror, darkness, and wrath. It is a
“day of visitation”
(Isaiah 10 : 3), a “Day of the Wrath Of
The LORD!”
(Ezekiel 7 : 19), THE “Great Day Of The LORD!”
(Zephaniah 1 : 14!)

-------------

Finally, there is Also: "The Day Of God!":

"Looking for and hasting unto The Coming Of The Day Of God,
wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the
elements shall melt with fervent heat?"
(2 Peter 3 : 12!)

----------
Again, God Admonishes ALL diligent Bible students:

"Prove ALL things; hold fast That Which Is Good!"
(1 Thessalonians 5 : 21!)

Precious friend(s), please Be Very Richly Blessed!

* Differing Greek texts may be the corrupt Egyptian manuscripts...
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,708
2,496
113
The simple truth is, Paul wrote that word apostasia in a sentence, and the sentence in a passage answering a question about the rapture.
Pinocchio's Nose Is Growing Again :giggle:

Paul said no such thing about a (Rapture)

The Greek "Apostasia" (Departure/Falling Away) isn't a Pre-Trib Rapture Of The Church To Heaven, it's that simple :giggle:

Apostasia: (Defection From Truth)(Apostasy) (Falling Away) (Forsake) Who You Trying To Fool (Yourself) :giggle:

Will you continue in rebellion of the presented truth?

Lexicon :: Strong's G646 - apostasia

Strong’s Definitions
ἀποστασία apostasía, ap-os-tas-ee'-ah; feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):—falling away, forsake.

KJV Translation Count — Total: 2x
The KJV translates Strong's G646 in the following manner: to forsake (with G575) (1x), falling away (1x).
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
2,869
1,916
113
On the contrary, if Paul tells us he is going to write about the gathering, then somehow forgets the gathering, he has a problem. But not to worry, He told them he was to write about the gathering and then he included it - as the departing.

When the church leaves in the rapture, are they not "departing?" Will it not be a part of a whole [group] taken away from that whole group as Strongs defines "apo?" And will this gathering take place SO FAST it will seem as if the world is standing still?

Remember, Paul's purpose was to answer them: without a doubt they had written to him else how would he know that they thought the DAY and come? He was to answer them about the Day of the Lord and how anyone could know for SURE that the DAY had come.

If people see a very significant departing as in the rapture. That would be significant. And then they see the man of sin revealed. Those two things are proof positive that the DAY has started. In Revelation we see the DAY starting at the 6th seal, and the revealing in chapter 11 - the same order Paul wrote.

Note that in every Greek manuscript, the "the" is included before apostasia: THE apostasia: a very significant departing.

Question: if Paul had meant a falling away, how would anyone know when ENOUGH Had fallen away to be "THE apostasia?"

Finally, when some fall away, MORE COME. The church is growing, not shrinking!
You are missing the Greek Tenses. it is not so much as "at hand." They thought the Day had come and was present: they were IN IT.

2 Not to allow your minds to be quickly unsettled or disturbed or kept excited or alarmed, whether it be by some [pretended] revelation of [the] Spirit or by word or by letter [alleged to be] from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has [already] arrived and is here. (Amp)

Look: if you want to go through the days of GT, I believe God will leave you behind so you get what you are believing. But WHY when God has made a way of escape? Do you not understand what being overcome means? You will end up one of those talked about in the first verses of Rev. 15.

Your logic really isn't.
From Paul in 1 Thes 4 & 5, it is rapture first, then wrath.
From John in Revelation: it is rapture first, then wrath. John saw the church in heaven before any trumpet or vial of God's wrath.
This is exactly Paul's progression here: rapture first as the departing, then wrath as the Day of the Lord.
That's not what the verses say.

It actually says the falling away must occur first and the man of sin revealed then the day of Christ.

The rapture occurs at the return of Christ. That's what the rest of scripture confirms.

One of the most plainly said verses is Matthew 24:29-31

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

It's post-tribulation rapture.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,708
2,496
113
You are missing the Greek Tenses. it is not so much as "at hand." They thought the Day had come and was present: they were IN IT.

2 Not to allow your minds to be quickly unsettled or disturbed or kept excited or alarmed, whether it be by some [pretended] revelation of [the] Spirit or by word or by letter [alleged to be] from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has [already] arrived and is here. (Amp)

Look: if you want to go through the days of GT, I believe God will leave you behind so you get what you are believing. But WHY when God has made a way of escape? Do you not understand what being overcome means? You will end up one of those talked about in the first verses of Rev. 15.

Your logic really isn't.
From Paul in 1 Thes 4 & 5, it is rapture first, then wrath.
From John in Revelation: it is rapture first, then wrath. John saw the church in heaven before any trumpet or vial of God's wrath.
This is exactly Paul's progression here: rapture first as the departing, then wrath as the Day of the Lord.
You are missing the clear teaching of scripture (Present Tense) before your eyes :)

The Greek "Apostasia" (Departure/Falling Away) isn't a Pre-Trib Rapture Of The Church To Heaven, it's that simple :giggle:

Apostasia: (Defection From Truth)(Apostasy) (Falling Away) (Forsake) Who You Trying To Fool (Yourself) :giggle:

Will you continue in rebellion of the presented truth?

Lexicon :: Strong's G646 - apostasia

Strong’s Definitions
ἀποστασία apostasía, ap-os-tas-ee'-ah; feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):—falling away, forsake.

KJV Translation Count — Total: 2x
The KJV translates Strong's G646 in the following manner: to forsake (with G575) (1x), falling away (1x).
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,708
2,496
113
Precious friend, I favor The Day Of CHRIST, because of this:

Day Of CHRIST {gr: Christos *} vs Day Of The LORD {gr: Kurios}!
----------------- { Also The Day Of God [gr: Theos]! }:

Obeying God's Command In 2 Timothy 2 : 15, we have This!:

According To the preaching of JESUS CHRIST, In The Revelation
Of The Mystery! (Romans - Philemon!) = "The Day Of CHRIST!"


Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2 : 15!) From "Things That DIFFER":

According to God's "Prophetic" Program in: Daniel,
Matthew, And Revelation! = "The Day Of The LORD!"

q: WHY would ANYONE In The Body of CHRIST,
"Today, desire" The Day Of The LORD?:


When God Inspired HIS "prophet" Amos to pen THIS!:

"WOE Unto you that desire The Day Of The LORD!
To what end is it for you?...


...The Day Of The LORD Is Darkness, and not light...Shall not
The Day Of The LORD be Darkness, And Not light? Even Very
Dark, And No brightness in it?"
(Amos 5 : 18, 20!)
------------------
"Expanded" For "Clarification!":

According To the preaching of JESUS CHRIST, In The Revelation
Of The Mystery! (Romans - Philemon!), "The Day Of CHRIST!" =


The "Judgment Day" Of The Heavenly Body Of CHRIST, who Will Be
Taken Home To Heaven { LIGHT! },
For "shame... ...rewards, rejoicing,
And reigning!"
(1 Corinthians 3 : 8-15 KJB!) Amen?:

“That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit
nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that The Day Of CHRIST is at
hand."
(2 Thessalonians 2 : 2 KJB!)

“Who Shall Confirm you Unto the end, that ye may be blameless
In The Day Of our LORD JESUS CHRIST!"
(1 Corinthians 1 : 8!)

“To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh,
that the spirit may be saved In The Day Of The LORD JESUS!"

(1 Corinthians 5 : 5!)

“As also ye have acknowledged us in part, that we are your rejoicing,
even as ye also are ours in the In The Day Of The LORD JESUS!"

(2 Corinthians 1 : 14!)

“Being confident Of This Very Thing, That HE Which Hath Begun A
Good Work In you, Will Perform It Until The Day Of JESUS CHRIST!"

(Philippians 1 : 6!)

“That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye
may be sincere and without offence till The Day Of CHRIST!"

(Philippians 1 : 10!)

“Holding forth The WORD Of Life; that I may rejoice in
The Day Of CHRIST that I have not run in vain, neither
laboured in vain."
(Philippians 2 : 16!)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2 : 15!) From "Things That DIFFER":

According To "Prophecy!":

The Day Of The LORD / "earthly" Israel / nations! in judgment /
wrath / battle / destruction / terror / DARKNESS / horror / pain! =

--------------------- Time Of JACOB's Trouble!!:

“The Day Of The LORD!” is common throughout the Old Testament.
The prophets referred constantly to it. In the New Testament,
The LORD JESUS CHRIST,
Paul, and Peter referred to It! Some of
the Many Passages are the following:

Isaiah 2 : 11-12, 17, 13 : 4-6, 9, 13, 34 : 8; Jeremiah 46 : 10;
Ezekiel 13 : 5, 30 : 3; Joel 1 : 15, 2 : 1, 11, 31, 3 : 14;
Amos 5 : 18, 20; Obadiah 1 : 15; Zephaniah 1 : 7, 14;
Zechariah 14 : 1; Malachi 4 : 5; Matthew 24 : 1-51;
Acts 2 : 20; Romans 2 : 5; 1 Thessalonians 5 : 2;
2 Peter 3 : 10; Revelation 1 : 10;

compare: "That Day" in Isaiah 2 : 11, 17, 20, 3 : 18.

"That Day" is a time of terror, darkness, and wrath. It is a
“day of visitation”
(Isaiah 10 : 3), a “Day of the Wrath Of
The LORD!”
(Ezekiel 7 : 19), THE “Great Day Of The LORD!”
(Zephaniah 1 : 14!)

-------------

Finally, there is Also: "The Day Of God!":

"Looking for and hasting unto The Coming Of The Day Of God,
wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the
elements shall melt with fervent heat?"
(2 Peter 3 : 12!)

----------
Again, God Admonishes ALL diligent Bible students:

"Prove ALL things; hold fast That Which Is Good!"
(1 Thessalonians 5 : 21!)

Precious friend(s), please Be Very Richly Blessed!

* Differing Greek texts may be the corrupt Egyptian manuscripts...
Are you and Watermark brothers, your writing style is the same? :giggle:
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
9,158
4,969
113
The simple truth is, Paul wrote that word apostasia in a sentence, and the sentence in a passage answering a question about the rapture. I cannot pull that word out of its context. It seems you have no problem doing that.

Again you must explain how a falling away can allow the man of sin to be revealed.
Along with that, explain why Paul wrote, "and now you know what is restraining."

You see, there is much more to a verse in a passage than ONE WORD. Are you building a doctrine on one word, and ignoring the passage?
This is not rebellion, it is wisdom. Perhaps you have not been confronted with it before.

Just to be sure you understand, apostasia must be understood in its context. Part of that context is the man of sin revealed. So far you have ignored that. Please explain HOW the man of sin "is revealed."
The concept that doctrine is or can be the conclusion drawn from a summation of various verses and passages distributed, in some cases, throughout practically the entire Bible is lost upon these people.

Hoisting up faulty doctrine based on one misinterpreted word is foolhardy. But oh so common with unqualified teachers and false preachers.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
9,158
4,969
113
You are missing the clear teaching of scripture (Present Tense) before your eyes :)

The Greek "Apostasia" (Departure/Falling Away) isn't a Pre-Trib Rapture Of The Church To Heaven, it's that simple :giggle:

Apostasia: (Defection From Truth)(Apostasy) (Falling Away) (Forsake) Who You Trying To Fool (Yourself) :giggle:

Will you continue in rebellion of the presented truth?

Lexicon :: Strong's G646 - apostasia

Strong’s Definitions
ἀποστασία apostasía, ap-os-tas-ee'-ah; feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):—falling away, forsake.

KJV Translation Count — Total: 2x
The KJV translates Strong's G646 in the following manner: to forsake (with G575) (1x), falling away (1x).
You have said/posted literally the exact same thing dozens and dozens of times on this thread.
And you have been proven wrong in devastating fashion. Again and again and again. Quite frankly it's embarrassing.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
9,449
2,406
113
Then you have to explain how a falling away can be the power restraining the Beast from being revealed before his time being "taken out of the way." Please explain that.
Bingo

something is restaraining the advent.

that something is taken out of the way "removed".

But watch this ...Paul said "Now you know what is restraining"

IOW..we can say that the "restraining" 'item'and the "apostacia" are irrevokably connected.

connecting them would be "a backslider dynamic is either allowing the advent or preventing it"

makes no sense.
postib gobbledygook
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,708
2,496
113
Hoisting up faulty doctrine based on one misinterpreted word is foolhardy. But oh so common with unqualified teachers and false preachers.
That Mirror Of Truth Your Looking Into Dosent Lie :giggle:

The Greek "Apostasia" (Departure/Falling Away) isn't a Pre-Trib Rapture Of The Church To Heaven, it's that simple

Apostasia: (Defection From Truth) (Apostasy) (Falling Away) (Forsake) Who You Trying To Fool (Yourself) :giggle:

Will you continue in rebellion of the presented truth?

Lexicon :: Strong's G646 - apostasia

Strong’s Definitions
ἀποστασία apostasía, ap-os-tas-ee'-ah; feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):—falling away, forsake.

KJV Translation Count — Total: 2x
The KJV translates Strong's G646 in the following manner: to forsake (with G575) (1x), falling away (1x).
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
4,248
2,091
113
mywebsite.us
PERFECT TENSE - "ACTION COMPLETED at a SPECIFIC POINT of TIME in PAST (●) with results CONTINUING into the PRESENT (▬►).
You cannot apply this directly to the phrase 'the day of Christ' - it may only be applied to the G1764 word - which has the 'perfect' tense.

You are trying to "extend" the 'perfect' tense of the G1764 word beyond that word.

You may only apply the 'perfect' tense of the G1764 word to the 'action' of that word.

The 'action' of that word is not time-reference-based.

The meaning of the word:

"to place on hand"
"be at hand"
"present"

The 'action' in this definition is the concept of causing something to be "at the ready" - from which the 'availability' terminology came from.

The "state" of being "at the ready" is the "completed action" that is "continuing"...

In the context of the verse, it considers 'the day of Christ' as being "at the ready" (to occur, to transpire).

In the context of the passage, it is saying that 'the day of Christ' can/will not be "at the ready" (to occur, to transpire) until . . .
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
4,248
2,091
113
mywebsite.us
Again, see the LISTING of its SEVEN occurrences (at the right side):

https://biblehub.com/greek/1764.htm



Notice that in 6 of its 7 occurrences, it is in the "PERFECT tense" (represented by the "R" in the BLUE above the verses at RIGHT)... and translated in those six verses as (the word) "PRESENT"... (none of these "PERFECT TENSE" verses mean "potentially PRESENT" ;) and our verse under discussion is "PERFECT INDICATIVE")...

...with only ONE occurrence being in the "FUTURE tense," 2Tim3:1 ("WILL BE PRESENT")
This is moot.

The idea of 'present' in the meaning of the word is not time-based - as in 'past'/'present'/'future'.