Paul did NOT die to the law!

[mark54]

You seem to not understand that there are more Christian views than dispensationalism.


But what I'm stressing is that there are many, many times Christians do not want to obey or do not know what to do. In those situations we need to tell them what they ought to do and why. It's part of teaching and discipleship.

It seems the things you assume I don't understand reflect only on the things you actually do not understand...

If you want to discuss the written law I will. Should I urge you to take note of the following?

Have you ever fasted and told anyone you have fasted, or in your heart wanted anyone to know you have fasted?
If you have you are a hypocrite according to Christ

If someone stole your shirt would you offer them other items of clorthing with nothing in your heart but love for them while doing so?

Do you not invite friends and family home for a meal, but rather the lame, poor and blind so you may receive a reward from your father in Heaven?

Should I go on? Are you truly glad in your heart I have mentioned these things to you or not?

And if you are not truly glad, are you acting in love if you act the same way towards others?


Build your brothers and sisters up, do not crush them with impossible demands you yourself do not attempt to keep

 

[JGPS]

If you want to discuss the written law I will. Should I urge you to take note of the following?

Have you ever fasted and told anyone you have fasted, or in your heart wanted anyone to know you have fasted?
If you have you are a hypocrite according to Christ

If someone stole your shirt would you offer them other items of clorthing with nothing in your heart but love for them while doing so?

Do you not invite friends and family home for a meal, but rather the lame, poor and blind so you may receive a reward from your father in Heaven?

Should I go on? Are you truly glad in your heart I have mentioned these things to you or not?

And if you are not truly glad, are you acting in love if you act the same way towards others?


Build your brothers and sisters up, do not crush them with impossible demands you yourself do not attempt to keep

Are you asking me to brag openly of my deeds to you? Heaven forbid I should. What corrupt questions to ask in the first place. Do not let your right arm know what your left does when you do such things as this?

But worse, do you assume I, or any Christian, doesn't do these things? You, who are preaching of how much they just know whats right, would assume someone didn't do these things as the opportunity arose? How horrible.


But I have asked no man to do anything impossible. Rather I ask them to do something pleasant and enjoyable. What I tell people is a delight rather than a burden. It is freedom, and often a great deal more freedom than the 'anti law' sort offer.

 

[mark54]

That chapter isn't even talking about the law. That's irritating because there are similar verses, which I've both presented and explained, which ARE talking about the law...

Read your references before you post them please...

Let be clear about this:

I KNOW THE LAW IS IN THE HEART NOW

Now, be clear about this

Do you understand that it is the SAME law that people had before?

And as an after-note, try the spirits. Many say they have the spirit of God but are deceivers, we're warned about that. One of the quickest and surest ways to check is to see if The law in their heart lines up with the Law of God that was written.

Because if it doesn't they have a problem.

I wsould suggest you read the beatitudes, SLOWLY and absorb fully what you read. Then I would suggest quiet contemplation as to how many of Christ's commands you fuilly obey.
Then I would suggest, you consider if you ever, withourt thinking, make bkland as it were statements to others as to obeying Christ's commands whilew you fall woefully short yourself.
BTEW


I fully understand the law written on human hearts is the same as the law given in the OT(though the mosaic law was never given to Gentiles) What you need to understand is there is a new covenant, and under the new covenant, our hearts have been softened, so that we WANT to obey whereas they did not, that is the difference
And that does not mean wee are basically any better than them, it is what God has done for us, and the glory is His, not ours

 

[mark54]

impossible. Rather I ask them to do something pleasant and enjoyable. What I tell people is a delight rather than a burden. It is freedom, and often a great deal more freedom than the 'anti law' sort offer.

Well I'm sorry, but this shows you do not understand the new covenannt. There is no anti law Christian, for the law is written on their heart and mind

 

[JGPS]

I wsould suggest you read the beatitudes, SLOWLY and absorb fully what you read. Then I would suggest quiet contemplation as to how many of Christ's commands you fuilly obey.
Then I would suggest, you consider if you ever, withourt thinking, make bkland as it were statements to others as to obeying Christ's commands whilew you fall woefully short yourself.
BTEW


I fully understand the law written on human hearts is the same as the law given in the OT(though the mosaic law was never given to Gentiles) What you need to understand is there is a new covenant, and under the new covenant, our hearts have been softened, so that we WANT to obey whereas they did not, that is the difference
And that does not mean wee are basically any better than them, it is what God has done for us, and the glory is His, not ours

You really think these things are hard don't you? Where are you at with Christ?

 

[JGPS]

Well I'm sorry, but this shows you do not understand the new covenannt. There is no anti law Christian, for the law is written on their heart and mind

You understand that re-asserting a position without adding to the discussion is detrimental to meaningful conversation don't you?

And there are many people that are anti-law who call themselves Christian, its called anti-nomianism.

 

[mark54]

You really think these things are hard don't you? Where are you at with Christ?

I have never met any Christian who has stated it is easy to obey all of Christ's commands in the beatitudes, nor would I believe anyone who professed it was

 

[mark54]

You understand that re-asserting a position without adding to the discussion is detrimental to meaningful conversation don't you?

And there are many people that are anti-law who call themselves Christian, its called anti-nomianism.

No sincere Chrisatian is anti law.
But you don't look to the law, you look to Christ and trust him for what you in yourself cannot do

 

[JGPS]

I have never met any Christian who has stated it is easy to obey all of Christ's commands in the beatitudes, nor would I believe anyone who professed it was

Then you have either not searched very far, or you do not understand the text, or you are simply someone who automatically disbelieves what you disagree with no matter weather its true or not. Some of it simply requires inner peace (that is, resisting not evil and not worrying about the morrow) some if it isn't hard in any way, shape, or form, (don't make oaths) some of it is metaphorical and should never actually be necessary (cutting off a limb, or rather, is something medical rather than spiritual), and some of it is often misunderstood.

But what of it is hard? His burden is light. It's basic decency, all of it. Where is its burden?

 

[mark54]

Then you have either not searched very far, or you do not understand the text, or you are simply someone who automatically disbelieves what you disagree with no matter weather its true or not. Some of it simply requires inner peace (that is, resisting not evil and not worrying about the morrow) some if it isn't hard in any way, shape, or form, (don't make oaths) some of it is metaphorical and should never actually be necessary (cutting off a limb, or rather, is something medical rather than spiritual), and some of it is often misunderstood.

But what of it is hard? His burden is light. It's basic decency, all of it. Where is its burden?

So if someone persecutes or maligns you for your Christianity you leap up and down with joy every time and it is easy for you to do this?

You have never in your heart want anyone to know if you have fasted, you only want your Father in Heaven to know because you love him above all

If a stranger asked you to carry a heavy load one mile you would offer to carry it two with nothing but love in your heart while doing so

If someone asked to borrow money from you, you would lend it to them without ever in your heart expecting anythingt back, even if a person who had been unkind to you asked you to lend to them?

If someopne stole your coat, you would with only loving thoughts towards them offer them more besides
You love everyone who has ever been unkind to you in any way

And of course you never invite friends or family for a meal but only the poor, lame and blind


I could go on and on, but I wonder how many on this website, would from an honest and sincere heart say that they find all these things and more easy to do.

I am sorry young man, I am afraid I am not convinced by your sweeping statements

 

[mark54]

Then you have either not searched very far, or you do not understand the text, or you are simply someone who automatically disbelieves what you disagree with no matter weather its true or not. Some of it simply requires inner peace (that is, resisting not evil and not worrying about the morrow) some if it isn't hard in any way, shape, or form, (don't make oaths) some of it is metaphorical and should never actually be necessary (cutting off a limb, or rather, is something medical rather than spiritual), and some of it is often misunderstood.

But what of it is hard? His burden is light. It's basic decency, all of it. Where is its burden?

In fact by claiming that it is easy to obey all of Christ's literal commands you are breaking the second commandment, for you are crushing those who would believe you. And I have to say, you are the only person
I have ever corresponded with who has made such a claim. So either you are the most saintly Christian who I have ever come into contact with, or you are being slightly blasse, to put it mildly, and if that were the case.............

 

[JGPS]

So if someone persecutes or maligns you for your Christianity you leap up and down with joy every time and it is easy for you to do this?

Kind of, yeah. I don't literally jump, but so long as I've stated my case well and left an impression I'm happy...

You have never in your heart want anyone to know if you have fasted, you only want your Father in Heaven to know because you love him above all

Why would I want anyone to know about my fasts? Its annoying enough that my wife notices... What kind of person would want this kind of thing known to all?

If a stranger asked you to carry a heavy load one mile you would offer to carry it two with nothing but love in your heart while doing so

The literal of this doesn't happen, though if someone asks for help why would you refuse them? It's a great opportunity that doesn't arise often enough. How could you possibly think otherwise?

If someone asked to borrow money from you, you would lend it to them without ever in your heart expecting anythingt back, even if a person who had been unkind to you asked you to lend to them?

If you lend something out don't expect it back, its bad for friendships. It's like a bird, if it comes back to you, its yours, and you can be all the happier for it.

If someopne stole your coat, you would with only loving thoughts towards them offer them more besides
You love everyone who has ever been unkind to you in any way

Most coat-thieves don't hang around to ask for extras, but people have reasons for theft and it would be good to talk to them if the opportunity arose. Its bad for them to be like that.

And of course you never invite friends or family for a meal but only the poor, lame and blind

TBH there aren't many blind or lame around my city, and those that I know don't need much help from me. Helping people with addictions and other problems is more what comes my way, but I figure its equivalent. But the poor are always with us, who hasn't done something so simple as help the poor?

I could go on and on, but I wonder how many on this website, would from an honest and sincere heart say that they find all these things and more easy to do.

Evil in your heart makes you assume evil in the world. It is there, but it will show itself, you don't have to put on distrust and cynicism, that's not healthy.

Do you really think any of those things are so hard? Why? These are some of the small joys of life. I don't know how one could see them otherwise.

I am sorry young man, I am afraid I am not convinced by your sweeping statements

To quote pop culture

You're disbelief is like an iron fortress of disbelief. Guarded by superman. And He doesn't believe me either.

Disbelief is your armour against everything I've said. Be it scripture, statement, or supplication. This is not a good thing. It is not disbelief for a reason, but disbelief simply because you choose not to believe. This speaks much more about you than it does me.

 

[JGPS]

In fact by claiming that it is easy to obey all of Christ's literal commands you are breaking the second commandment, for you are crushing those who would believe you. And I have to say, you are the only person
I have ever corresponded with who has made such a claim. So either you are the most saintly Christian who I have ever come into contact with, or you are being slightly blasse, to put it mildly, and if that were the case.............

I have claimed nothing extraordinary. The Law of God is a joy to me, not a burden, and has been such for years, ever since I stopped trying to explain it away.

But my claim is nothing special, and it is sad you have not heard it before. It is Christs own promise, he said

Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

What he said is true. I've long accepted it. You sit here calling his yoke hard and then say that I bear false witness? You bear witness against Christ our Lord Himself if you say these things are burdensome.

 

[mark54]

I have claimed nothing extraordinary. The Law of God is a joy to me, not a burden, and has been such for years, ever since I stopped trying to explain it away.

But my claim is nothing special, and it is sad you have not heard it before. It is Christs own promise, he said

Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

What he said is true. I've long accepted it. You sit here calling his yoke hard and then say that I bear false witness? You bear witness against Christ our Lord Himself if you say these things are burdensome.

I guess Paul didn't understand the Gospel as well as you, and was not as far advanced in it as you are, for he said the way to live a Godly life is not an easy matter, but apparently to you it is, easy and simple

 

[psychomom]

I have claimed nothing extraordinary. The Law of God is a joy to me, not a burden, and has been such for years, ever since I stopped trying to explain it away.

But my claim is nothing special, and it is sad you have not heard it before. It is Christs own promise, he said

Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

What he said is true. I've long accepted it. You sit here calling his yoke hard and then say that I bear false witness? You bear witness against Christ our Lord Himself if you say these things are burdensome.

I hope you'll excuse my interruption.

But for the sake of clarity, and so we're all on the same page here,
would you please tell us which part of the Law (the 'nomos' is the Greek word, and it's singular, one Law)
do you keep?
Are you keeping the dietary part?
Or the ceremonial part?
I'm fairly certain not the sacrificial part. ( )

Also, perhaps it would be helpful if you were to give a list
(not exhaustive, of course)
of the commands of Christ from the Gospels?
(not things like 'keep My commands', but actually the commands themselves, beyond The Beatitudes)

Sometimes terminology gets us bogged down,
and then we discover we're actually speaking of the same things!

Thanks for considering that.
-ellie

 

[Abiding]

the law isnt the problem. Im the problem.

 

[mark54]

in case I have not written with clarity what I mean(I probably have not)

At the time I first joined Christian internet websites I could not remember all of the Ten Comamndments(horror of horrors) I never thought about the literal words of them
But due to discussions, I thought I'd better brush up on them!
As I read them, I knew that I already agreed with them(I tend to see the fourth as Paul wrote in Rom14:5)

Which I would think is the same for every Christian.

Do Christians look to each and every literal command of Christ in the Gospels and strive to obey each and everyone? Is that what people feel we should do to obey the commands of Christ?
Would that be cosidered a light burden?

However, Paul said
'Carry each others burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ
Gal6:2

I think that's a better way to look at it(I do anyways)

The important thing is to be led of the Holy Spirit, for He will not bring us into conflict with any of the good and Holy laws of God, which I am sure is why Paul said:

If you are led by the Spirit you are not under law
Gal5:18

Ifr you are not led of the Holy Spirit you cannot live a life that reflects the teachings of Christ, if you are led of the Holy Spirit, you don't need to concentrate on each and every literal command, your life will more and more reflect Christ's teachings anyway
So I would say the answer is not to stress the law, but the Spirit

 

[Eccl12and13]

[/SIZE]The one and only difference between those that are righteous and those that are unrighteous is...

Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Really? Are you sure about the, "...one and only difference...?

Gen.7
[1] And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.


So again......Really? So Noah had faith in Jesus Christ? Even BEFORE God told Moses that He would raise up a prophet like unto him, which would be Jesus Christ, just how did Noah have faith in Christ?


.

 

[JGPS]

I guess Paul didn't understand the Gospel as well as you, and was not as far advanced in it as you are, for he said the way to live a Godly life is not an easy matter, but apparently to you it is, easy and simple

No, Paul clearly loves the law too.

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Which is the same as David.

Psa 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
Psa 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

Such is the way of all who are walking with God.

I'm not sure what exactly about Gods Law is supposed to be hard to you, or why you insist its so.

To be sure seeking God will lead to difficult places, but it is ever the circumstances and people that are difficult, not God's law. Pauls afflictions came from people, not from Gods law.

 

[mark54]

No, Paul clearly loves the law too.

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Which is the same as David.

Psa 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
Psa 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

Such is the way of all who are walking with God.

I'm not sure what exactly about Gods Law is supposed to be hard to you, or why you insist its so.

To be sure seeking God will lead to difficult places, but it is ever the circumstances and people that are difficult, not God's law. Pauls afflictions came from people, not from Gods law.

I have repeated so many times now, the law is written on the heart and mind of the Christian, it is internal to them, not external on tablets of stone.
The Christian wants to obey God, they want to live as he wants them to.
As you seem not to understand this point I continually make to you, I don't see how conversation can be fruitful. But can I ask you, what do you think it means that the law has been written on the heart and mind of the Christian, as oppoosed to it being a literal law written down?