The Herods

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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#1
Daniel 10:14
Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.


Daniel 11
36“And the king shall do as he wills. He shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak astonishing things against the God of gods. He shall prosper till the indignation is accomplished; for what is decreed shall be done. 37He shall pay no attention to the gods of his fathers, or to the one beloved by women. He shall not pay attention to any other god, for he shall magnify himself above all. 38He shall honor the god of fortresses instead of these. A god whom his fathers did not know he shall honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and costly gifts. 39He shall deal with the strongest fortresses with the help of a foreign god. Those who acknowledge him he shall load with honor. He shall make them rulers over many and shall divide the land for a price.

40“At the time of the end, the king of the south shall attackg him, but the king of the north shall rush upon him like a whirlwind, with chariots and horsemen, and with many ships. And he shall come into countries and shall overflow and pass through. 41He shall come into the glorious land. And tens of thousands shall fall, but these shall be delivered out of his hand: Edom and Moab and the main part of the Ammonites. 42He shall stretch out his hand against the countries, and the land of Egypt shall not escape. 43He shall become ruler of the treasures of gold and of silver, and all the precious things of Egypt, and the Libyans and the Cushites shall follow in his train. 44But news from the east and the north shall alarm him, and he shall go out with great fury to destroy and devote many to destruction. 45And he shall pitch his palatial tents between the sea and the glorious holy mountain. Yet he shall come to his end, with none to help him.

....

Lord willing, tomorrow i'm going to propose that these passages are referring to HEROD.

i knew the Herods have been overlooked, consistently.

let's see what happens.....:)
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#2
Daniel 10:14
Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.


Daniel 11
36“And the king shall do as he wills. He shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak astonishing things against the God of gods. He shall prosper till the indignation is accomplished; for what is decreed shall be done. 37He shall pay no attention to the gods of his fathers, or to the one beloved by women. He shall not pay attention to any other god, for he shall magnify himself above all. 38He shall honor the god of fortresses instead of these. A god whom his fathers did not know he shall honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and costly gifts. 39He shall deal with the strongest fortresses with the help of a foreign god. Those who acknowledge him he shall load with honor. He shall make them rulers over many and shall divide the land for a price.

40“At the time of the end, the king of the south shall attackg him, but the king of the north shall rush upon him like a whirlwind, with chariots and horsemen, and with many ships. And he shall come into countries and shall overflow and pass through. 41He shall come into the glorious land. And tens of thousands shall fall, but these shall be delivered out of his hand: Edom and Moab and the main part of the Ammonites. 42He shall stretch out his hand against the countries, and the land of Egypt shall not escape. 43He shall become ruler of the treasures of gold and of silver, and all the precious things of Egypt, and the Libyans and the Cushites shall follow in his train. 44But news from the east and the north shall alarm him, and he shall go out with great fury to destroy and devote many to destruction. 45And he shall pitch his palatial tents between the sea and the glorious holy mountain. Yet he shall come to his end, with none to help him.

....

Lord willing, tomorrow i'm going to propose that these passages are referring to HEROD.

i knew the Herods have been overlooked, consistently.

let's see what happens.....:)
oops....wrong translation, i used ESV but will be using KJV in this case, i.e.:


Daniel 11
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#3

hmm im curious yup
 

Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
2,638
88
48
#4
curious as to why its not Antiochus IV Epiphanes? Of course the real agenda is to continue to place all prophecy being fulfilled by 70AD so we have no Beast and False Prophet adn tribulation to look forward to.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#5
curious as to why its not Antiochus IV Epiphanes? Of course the real agenda is to continue to place all prophecy being fulfilled by 70AD so we have no Beast and False Prophet adn tribulation to look forward to.
Hey its sure ok with me if you look forward to it:cool:
 
R

RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#6
herod doesn't seem to fit...especially verse forty-one about edom being delivered out of his hand...herod -was- an edomite...

antiochus iv seems to fit better...
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#7
herod doesn't seem to fit...especially verse forty-one about edom being delivered out of his hand...herod -was- an edomite...

antiochus iv seems to fit better...
pretty sure its Herod, rach:)
but we might be getting signals crossed.

i have some things to do first.

gonna spend time on this later.

youve seen older stuff from me - the assertion the clay in the metal man toes are the Herods - 10 horns = 10 casears, 7 heads = 7 herods - all during the time of Christ (2 continued a little beyond...one herod and one caesar (titus)...which i might repost later also.

anyway

Matthew refers directly to Herod, and Johns symbolic vision pins the identical narrative on satan.

Matthew 2
The Visit of the Wise Men
1Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise mena from the east came to Jerusalem, 2saying, “Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we saw his star when it roseb and have come to worship him.” 3When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him; 4and assembling all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born. 5They told him, “In Bethlehem of Judea, for so it is written by the prophet:

6 “‘And you, O Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;
for from you shall come a ruler
who will shepherd my people Israel.’”

7Then Herod summoned the wise men secretly and ascertained from them what time the star had appeared. 8And he sent them to Bethlehem, saying, “Go and search diligently for the child, and when you have found him, bring me word, that I too may come and worship him.” 9After listening to the king, they went on their way. And behold, the star that they had seen when it rose went before them until it came to rest over the place where the child was. 10When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy. 11And going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh. 12And being warned in a dream not to return to Herod, they departed to their own country by another way.

The Flight to Egypt
13Now when they had departed, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, “Rise, take the child and his mother, and flee to Egypt, and remain there until I tell you, for Herod is about to search for the child, to destroy him.” 14And he rose and took the child and his mother by night and departed to Egypt 15and remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet, “Out of Egypt I called my son.”

Herod Kills the Children
16Then Herod, when he saw that he had been tricked by the wise men, became furious, and he sent and killed all the male children in Bethlehem and in all that region who were two years old or under, according to the time that he had ascertained from the wise men. 17Then was fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet Jeremiah:

18 “A voice was heard in Ramah,
weeping and loud lamentation,
Rachel weeping for her children;
she refused to be comforted, because they are no more.”



Revelation 12
13And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle so that she might fly from the serpent into the wilderness, to the place where she is to be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time. 15The serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, to sweep her away with a flood. 16But the earth came to the help of the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed the river that the dragon had poured from his mouth. 17Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stoodb on the sand of the sea.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#8
Daniel 10,
In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia a thing was revealed unto Daniel, whose name was called Belteshazzar; and the thing was true, but the time appointed was long: and he understood the thing, and had understanding of the vision.

so Cyrus is in power at the time.
Gabriel tells Daniel he (Gabriel) had aided Darius.


Daniel 11
The Overthrow of Persia

1Also I in the first year of Darius the Mede, even I, stood to confirm and to strengthen him. 2And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia. 3And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will. 4And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those.

the fourth certainly to be Xerxes:


2a. and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia.


Xerxes

Xerxes I of Persia....meaning "ruling over heroes".....also known as Xerxes the Great....was the fourth King of Kings of Persia.

Xerxes I of Persia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Xerxes addresses the council of Persian leaders, and states his reasons for invading Greece: revenge, gain, living up to the glorious Persian tradition. His hubristic dream of world domination. A prize is offered to the general who produces the best troops...

Herodotus: Book Seven

Xerxes I (king of Persia) -- Encyclopedia Britannica



3. And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will.


Alexander

Exactly 150 years after Xerxes burned Athens to the ground, Alexander was in the midst of his campaigning in Asia. After defeating the Persian armies on three occasions, he occupied the capital Persepolis...Though himself a non-Greek Macedonian, Alexander always thought of himself as the champion and exponent of Greek culture, and here seems to fancy himself avenging Athens’ destruction.

Athens on Fire



4. And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those.


Alexander the Great, quickly and powerfully conquered the Persians in a brilliant series of battles, and Greece became the masters of the Oriental World. Alexander died....after his death his empire was divided into four Kingdoms, the most important were Seleucus in Asia, and Ptolemy in Africa. In the division Israel became a part of Syria, under the authority of Seleucus. Shortly after Israel was ruled by Ptolemy Soter, the ruler of Egypt, and he and his successors ruled Israel....the dominion switched to the Seleucid line and Israel in their dominion. The Seleucid's ruled Israel with great cruelty until...the Maccabees revolted and threw off their yoke and Israel became virtually independent for a period...

The Greek Empire (Bible History Online)

History of ancient Israel and Judah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Alexander the Great Empire Map



5. And the king of the south shall be strong, and one of his princes; and he shall be strong above him, and have dominion; his dominion shall be a great dominion.


Seleucus king of the north - stronger and a greater dominion than Ptolemy

Seleucus I ...was a leading officer of Alexander the Great's League of Corinth and one of the Diadochi. In the Wars of the Diadochi that took place after Alexander's death, Seleucus established the Seleucid dynasty and the Seleucid Empire. His kingdom would be one of the last holdouts of Alexander's former empire to Roman rule. They were only outlived by the Ptolemaic Kingdom in Egypt by roughly 34 years....After the death of Alexander, Seleucus was nominated as the satrap of Babylon...Antigonus forced Seleucus to flee from Babylon, but, supported by Ptolemy, he was able to return... Seleucus' later conquests include Persia and Media.

Seleucus I Nicator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(well as Syria; India; Mesopotamia; Thrace; Macedonia and Judea)


Ptolemy king of the south

Ptolemy I Soter, was a half brother of Alexander the Great, King of Macedonia and served under him as a Macedonian General. He later acquired the title of King of Egypt...Ptolemy I Soter was regarded by the Macedonians as the son of Philip II.....Ptolemy I Soter I (Ancient Greek: Πτολεμαῖος Σωτήρ, Ptolemaĩos Sōtḗr, i.e. Ptolemy (pronounced /ˈtɒləmi/) the Savior), also known as Ptolemy Lagides,.....was a Macedonian general under Alexander the Great, who became ruler of Egypt....and founder of both the Ptolemaic Kingdom and the Ptolemaic Dynasty....he took the title of pharaoh.

Ptolemy I Soter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Ptolemy's daughter Berenice

6. And in the end of years they shall join themselves together; for the king’s daughter of the south shall come to the king of the north to make an agreement: but she shall not retain the power of the arm; neither shall he stand, nor his arm: but she shall be given up, and they that brought her, and he that begat her, and he that strengthened her in these times.


Antiochus II Theos ...was a Greek king of the Hellenistic Seleucid Kingdom...He inherited a state of war with Egypt, the "Second Syrian War", which was fought along the coasts of Asia Minor, and the constant intrigues of petty despots and restless city-states in Asia Minor. Antiochus also made some attempt to get a footing in Thrace. During the war he was given the title Theos (Greek: Θεός, "God"), being such to the Milesians in slaying the tyrant Timarchus....

Antiochus made peace with Ptolemy II of Egypt, ending the Second Syrian War. Antiochus repudiated his wife Laodice I and exiled her to Ephesus.

To seal the treaty,he married Ptolemy's daughter Berenice and received an enormous dowry....During her stay in Ephesus, Laodice I continued numerous intrigues to become queen again...Antiochus had left Berenice and their infant son Antiochus, in Antioch to live again with Laodice I in Asia Minor. Laodice I took the occasion to poison Antiochus while her partisans at Antioch murdered Berenice and their infant son.
Antiochus II Theos - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Ptolemy III Euergetes

7. But out of a branch of her roots shall one stand up in his estate, which shall come with an army, and shall enter into the fortress of the king of the north, and shall deal against them, and shall prevail:


Berenice's brother, Ptolemy III Euergetes succeeded their father and set about to avenge his sister's murder by invading Syria and having Laodice killed.

Berenice (Seleucid queen) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



8. And shall also carry captives into Egypt their gods, with their princes, and with their precious vessels of silver and of gold; and he shall continue more years than the king of the north.

9. So the king of the south shall come into his kingdom, and shall return into his own land.



he (Ptolemy III) returned back to Egypt, he distributed wheat and corn among the Egyptians to lessen the burden of famine on the population . These wheat and corn brought from Syria as booty . He also brought back some statues of the Egyptian deities which Cambyes took from Egypt few hundred years earlier . Then he used excessive force to put down the revolts of the Egyptians.

Ptolemy III, Euregettes I, the beneficent Visit Egypt Tour Egypt Travel to Egypt


Antiochus Hierax

10. But his sons shall be stirred up, and shall assemble a multitude of great forces: and one shall certainly come, and overflow, and pass through: then shall he return, and be stirred up, even to his fortress.


Antiochus Hierax (Greek: Ἀντίoχoς Ἱέραξ, transl. “Hawk”)...so called from his grasping and ambitious character, was the younger son of Antiochus II and Laodice I and separatist leader in the Hellenistic Seleucid kingdom, who ruled as king of Syria during his brother's reign......On the death of his father....Antiochus waged war on his brother Seleucus II Callinicus, in order to seize Anatolia for himself as an independent kingdom. He defeated his brother at the Battle of Ancyra..

Once more Antiochus attacked the Ptolemaic province of Coele Syria and Phoenicia, and....he seems to have had possession of it before the Aetolian, Scopas, recovered it for Ptolemy.

Antiochus Hierax - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




11
. And the king of the south shall be moved with choler, and shall come forth and fight with him, even with the king of the north: and he shall set forth a great multitude; but the multitude shall be given into his hand.


Antiochus III....Syrian king of the Seleucid dynasty, Alexander the Great's successors in Asia.....When his older brother, Seleucus III, was assassinated in Phrygia.....Antiochus succeeded him as king at the age of 18.

.....Molon and Alexander, the satraps of Media and Persia, revolted.....Achaeus sought power and occupied Antioch, but the populace deserted him. Antiochus foolishly overlooked the brief insurrection and instead prepared to attack Egypt. His forces easily gained coastal Phoenicia, Tyre, and Ptolemais, but Antiochus faltered at the fortress of Dora in northern Palestine. This gave Egypt a chance to reorganize its army, and.... Antiochus was defeated in Gaza by Ptolemy IV Philopater.

Antiochus III Facts



12. And when he hath taken away the multitude, his heart shall be lifted up; and he shall cast down many ten thousands: but he shall not be strengthened by it.


Antiochus III

13. For the king of the north shall return, and shall set forth a multitude greater than the former, and shall certainly come after certain years with a great army and with much riches.

16. But he that cometh against him shall do according to his own will, and none shall stand before him: and he shall stand in the glorious land, which by his hand shall be consumed.



Antiochus III succeeds by defeating of Ptolemy V Epiphanes and Scopas.
with much of the war being fought in Judea, Antiochus army consumes most of Judeas wealth.


Antiochus III, called The Great...king of Syria....the son of Seleucus II and brother of Seleucus III...he warred successfully against the Egyptian king Ptolemy V and....obtained possession of all of Palestine and Lebanon.

Antiochus III Megas, King of the Seleucid Empire (-241 - -187) - Genealogy


Antiochus intends to take all of Egypt, but tries intrigue and subversion by giving his daughter.


17. He shall also set his face to enter with the strength of his whole kingdom, and upright ones with him; thus shall he do: and he shall give him the daughter of women, corrupting her: but she shall not stand on his side, neither be for him.


Antiochus III indicated his willingness to make peace with Ptolemy V and to have his daughter Cleopatra I marry Ptolemy V. ....Later on, Egypt's Ptolemaic kings were to argue that Cleopatra I had received Coele-Syria as her dowry and, therefore, this territory again belonged to Egypt. It is not clear if this was the case. However, in practice, Coele-Syria remained a Seleucid possession...In Alexandria, Cleopatra I was called the Syrian.....As part of the Ptolemaic cult she was honoured with her husband as Theoi Epiphaneis. In line with ancient Egyptian tradition, she was also named adelphe (= sister) of Ptolemy V.

A synod of priests held at Memphis.....transferred all honours that Ptolemy V had received...(written on the Rosetta stone) to his wife.

Cleopatra I was appointed vizier and upon her husband's death....she ruled on behalf of her young son, Ptolemy VI.

Antiochus III the Great - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



18. After this shall he turn his face unto the isles, and shall take many: but a prince for his own behalf shall cause the reproach offered by him to cease; without his own reproach he shall cause it to turn upon him.


Antiochus then moved to Asia Minor, by land and by sea, to secure the coast towns which belonged to the remnants of Ptolemaic overseas dominions and the independent Greek cities. This enterprise earned him the antagonism of the Roman Republic, since Smyrna and Lampsacus appealed to the republic of the west, and the tension grew after Antiochus had in 196 BC established a footing in Thrace. The evacuation of Greece by the Romans gave Antiochus his opportunity, and he now had the fugitive Hannibal at his court to urge him on.

Antiochus III the Great - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



19. Then he shall turn his face toward the fort of his own land: but he shall stumble and fall, and not be found.


Antiochus invaded Greece with a 10,000 man army, and was elected the commander in chief of the Aetolian League....however, the Romans under Manius Acilius Glabrio routed him at Thermopylae, forcing him to withdraw to Asia Minor. The Romans followed up their success by invading Anatolia, and the decisive victory of Scipio Asiaticus at Magnesia ad Sipylum...following the defeat of Hannibal at sea off Side, delivered Asia Minor into their hands.

...Antiochus III attempted to pillage a temple of the god Ba’al in Elam, proving his previous actions in Ecbatana were not at all atypical. The underlying motive was again undoubtedly pecuniary. Following the treaty of Apamea, Antiochus III badly needed coin and bullion to pay the Roman indemnity. He had already paid two down payments together totaling 3000 silver talents, but now was required to produce 1000 silver talents per year for the next twelve years.

The war with Rome had no doubt been expensive, and his tactical defeats in Greece and Asia Minor meant that he would have had little booty to offset his costs.

Native Temples and Predatory Rule in the Seleucid Empire (Working Paper) | Michael Taylor - Academia.edu


...the Seleucid king abandoned all the country north of the Taurus, which the Roman Republic distributed amongst its local allies. As a consequence of this blow to the Seleucid power, the outlying provinces of the empire, recovered by Antiochus, reasserted their independence. Antiochus mounted a fresh eastern expedition in Luristan, where he died while pillaging a temple of Bel at Elymaïs, Persia.

Antiochus III the Great - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Seleucus IV Philopator


20. Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle.


Antiochus died....on another expedition to the east, where he sought to extract money to pay the indemnity.....The reign of his son and successor Seleucus IV Philopator..... largely spent in attempts to pay the large indemnity, and Seleucus was ultimately assassinated by his minister Heliodorus.

Seleucid Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia









OH WOW I CAN NOT BELIEVE I AM TRYING TO DO THIS:rolleyes:







do i have to go through

Antiochus Epiphanes - 11:21-32

and The Maccabees - 11:32-35


to GET TO HEROD.....arg.
 
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A

Abiding

Guest
#9
want me to hold your marbles again?:p
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#11
ya i know were friends and all but id never take it that far:eek:
 
W

wdeaton65

Guest
#12
I never looked at it this way I will put my mind and heart after it. I do find it interesting that some will comment before hearing the whole matter HHMMMM I think GOD addresses this issue some where in HIS word LOL Maybe Proverbs LOL

I know the three wise men are students of Daniels because they didnt know where the Messiah was born the sign they saw was Rev 12;1

The Herods I dont know why it couldnt be. More study is needed this is cool love you sis.
The thing about truth is some one has got to be right and everyone else is wrong. I have no problem admitting when I have been taught wrong it is part of growing and learning
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#13
ya i know were friends and all but id never take it that far:eek:
nah...it's okay bud,
i'll give ya 6, okay?





do you have.......um.

a Pokemon Minum Pop 1?
or...a Ritz orange-pineapple cap?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#14
I never looked at it this way I will put my mind and heart after it. I do find it interesting that some will comment before hearing the whole matter HHMMMM I think GOD addresses this issue some where in HIS word LOL Maybe Proverbs LOL

I know the three wise men are students of Daniels because they didnt know where the Messiah was born the sign they saw was Rev 12;1

The Herods I dont know why it couldnt be. More study is needed this is cool love you sis.
The thing about truth is some one has got to be right and everyone else is wrong. I have no problem admitting when I have been taught wrong it is part of growing and learning
i dunno if it's right.
but i think it is.

too tired after all that Xerxes Ptolemy Seleucid thing.
tomorrow i might just skip right to Herod(s).
dunno.

william what do you think it all means?
Daniel 11?

stop me if i'm on a dead-end, bud.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#15
curious as to why its not Antiochus IV Epiphanes? Of course the real agenda is to continue to place all prophecy being fulfilled by 70AD so we have no Beast and False Prophet adn tribulation to look forward to.
Antiochus IV Epiphanes is in there too.

Antiochus Epiphanes - 11:21-32, is what i believe.

but it doesn't stop with him.

in any case, it doesn't leap 2G into the future.




 
W

wdeaton65

Guest
#16
This is what I thought CC would be good for all of us trying to put pieces back together and help each other.
My views on Daniel as a whole are very complex. I know it is very hard to remove bad teaching and habits out of the way when looking at something. I have never seen this before sis I will go back to the hebrew in Dan.11 and check. This is new to me I never would of considered the herod thing but if it is true it will fit everything perfectly. The Lord loves HIS children to study the deep things in HIS word. I can tell you this if it does line up it would explain the mentions of all the different herods in the N/T and why they are in it for other reasons than a time marker. Nothing is in there by chance we will have to see.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#17
curious as to why its not Antiochus IV Epiphanes? Of course the real agenda is to continue to place all prophecy being fulfilled by 70AD so we have no Beast and False Prophet adn tribulation to look forward to.
what's with the double-speak?

keep it about Antiochus IV Epiphanes, then.

maybe he'll manifest as the future Antichrist.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#18
This is what I thought CC would be good for all of us trying to put pieces back together and help each other.
My views on Daniel as a whole are very complex. I know it is very hard to remove bad teaching and habits out of the way when looking at something. I have never seen this before sis I will go back to the hebrew in Dan.11 and check. This is new to me I never would of considered the herod thing but if it is true it will fit everything perfectly. The Lord loves HIS children to study the deep things in HIS word. I can tell you this if it does line up it would explain the mentions of all the different herods in the N/T and why they are in it for other reasons than a time marker. Nothing is in there by chance we will have to see.
well william, if you get to it before i do, this is my theory:

Daniel 11

Herod the Great - 11:36-39, 11:44-45

and

Caesar Augustus - 11:40-43

and recall this dream:

Daniel 2
Daniel Interprets the Dream

31“You saw, O king, and behold, a great image. This image, mighty and of exceeding brightness, stood before you, and its appearance was frightening. 32The head of this image was of fine gold, its chest and arms of silver, its middle and thighs of bronze, 33its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay. 34As you looked, a stone was cut out by no human hand, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces. 35Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold, all together were broken in pieces, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, so that not a trace of them could be found. But the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

36“This was the dream. Now we will tell the king its interpretation. 37You, O king, the king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, and the might, and the glory, 38and into whose hand he has given, wherever they dwell, the children of man, the beasts of the field, and the birds of the heavens, making you rule over them all—you are the head of gold. 39Another kingdom inferior to you shall arise after you, and yet a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth. 40And there shall be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, because iron breaks to pieces and shatters all things. And like iron that crushes, it shall break and crush all these. 41And as you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom, but some of the firmness of iron shall be in it, just as you saw iron mixed with the soft clay. 42And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly brittle. 43As you saw the iron mixed with soft clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage,c but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay. 44And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever, 45just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold. A great God has made known to the king what shall be after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation sure.”


- its feet partly of iron and partly of clay

- feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom, but some of the firmness of iron shall be in it, just as you saw iron mixed with the soft clay

i think this is the Casaers (10) & Herods (7) who reigned over the Empire during Jesus lifetime, beginning with Caesar Augustus. the Herods reigned in Judea.

- As you looked, a stone was cut out by no human hand, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces

- just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand


that's Jesus:)


- Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold, all together were broken in pieces, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, so that not a trace of them could be found.

edit - that's the end of the wars maybe

- But the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

that's the Church (jew and gentile)

and here's the proof:

- And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people.

what kings?

the 10 horns and the 7 heads:)

Daniel 2 said ALL of that IMAGE would come down....when Jesus came the first time. - in the days of those kings



k...ttyl
 
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W

wdeaton65

Guest
#19
well william, if you get to it before i do, this is my theory:

Daniel 11

Herod the Great - 11:36-39, 11:44-45

and

Caesar Augustus - 11:40-43

and recall this dream:

Daniel 2
Daniel Interprets the Dream

31“You saw, O king, and behold, a great image. This image, mighty and of exceeding brightness, stood before you, and its appearance was frightening. 32The head of this image was of fine gold, its chest and arms of silver, its middle and thighs of bronze, 33its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay. 34As you looked, a stone was cut out by no human hand, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces. 35Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold, all together were broken in pieces, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, so that not a trace of them could be found. But the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

36“This was the dream. Now we will tell the king its interpretation. 37You, O king, the king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, and the might, and the glory, 38and into whose hand he has given, wherever they dwell, the children of man, the beasts of the field, and the birds of the heavens, making you rule over them all—you are the head of gold. 39Another kingdom inferior to you shall arise after you, and yet a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth. 40And there shall be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, because iron breaks to pieces and shatters all things. And like iron that crushes, it shall break and crush all these. 41And as you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom, but some of the firmness of iron shall be in it, just as you saw iron mixed with the soft clay. 42And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly brittle. 43As you saw the iron mixed with soft clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage,c but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay. 44And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever, 45just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold. A great God has made known to the king what shall be after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation sure.”


- its feet partly of iron and partly of clay

- feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom, but some of the firmness of iron shall be in it, just as you saw iron mixed with the soft clay

i think this is the Casaers (10) & Herods (7) who reigned over the Empire during Jesus lifetime, beginning with Caesar Augustus. the Herods reigned in Judea.

- As you looked, a stone was cut out by no human hand, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces

- just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand


that's Jesus:)


- Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold, all together were broken in pieces, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, so that not a trace of them could be found.

edit - that's the end of the wars maybe

- But the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

that's the Church (jew and gentile)

and here's the proof:

- And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people.

what kings?

the 10 horns and the 7 heads:)

Daniel 2 said ALL of that IMAGE would come down....when Jesus came the first time. - in the days of those kings



k...ttyl
I have found it useful in my own studies to first do everything I can to disprove something through the word If I cant disprove it than I am on the right track.
I am going through Daniel and looking first for anything that wont fit so far it seems to fit I think we could use more people looking objectively with no axe to grind and those are hard to find.
I also know that GOD teaches us over and over the same message. I believe that is why history keeps repeating itself.
Why cant this be the same thing?
I know most will just brush this off oh well I will keep looking.
Great work sis Blessings
 
R

RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#20
pretty sure its Herod, rach:)
but we might be getting signals crossed.

i have some things to do first.

gonna spend time on this later.

youve seen older stuff from me - the assertion the clay in the metal man toes are the Herods - 10 horns = 10 casears, 7 heads = 7 herods - all during the time of Christ (2 continued a little beyond...one herod and one caesar (titus)...which i might repost later also.

anyway

Matthew refers directly to Herod, and Johns symbolic vision pins the identical narrative on satan.

Matthew 2
The Visit of the Wise Men
1Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise mena from the east came to Jerusalem, 2saying, “Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we saw his star when it roseb and have come to worship him.” 3When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him; 4and assembling all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born. 5They told him, “In Bethlehem of Judea, for so it is written by the prophet:

6 “‘And you, O Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;
for from you shall come a ruler
who will shepherd my people Israel.’”

7Then Herod summoned the wise men secretly and ascertained from them what time the star had appeared. 8And he sent them to Bethlehem, saying, “Go and search diligently for the child, and when you have found him, bring me word, that I too may come and worship him.” 9After listening to the king, they went on their way. And behold, the star that they had seen when it rose went before them until it came to rest over the place where the child was. 10When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy. 11And going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh. 12And being warned in a dream not to return to Herod, they departed to their own country by another way.

The Flight to Egypt
13Now when they had departed, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, “Rise, take the child and his mother, and flee to Egypt, and remain there until I tell you, for Herod is about to search for the child, to destroy him.” 14And he rose and took the child and his mother by night and departed to Egypt 15and remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet, “Out of Egypt I called my son.”

Herod Kills the Children
16Then Herod, when he saw that he had been tricked by the wise men, became furious, and he sent and killed all the male children in Bethlehem and in all that region who were two years old or under, according to the time that he had ascertained from the wise men. 17Then was fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet Jeremiah:

18 “A voice was heard in Ramah,
weeping and loud lamentation,
Rachel weeping for her children;
she refused to be comforted, because they are no more.”



Revelation 12
13And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle so that she might fly from the serpent into the wilderness, to the place where she is to be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time. 15The serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, to sweep her away with a flood. 16But the earth came to the help of the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed the river that the dragon had poured from his mouth. 17Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stoodb on the sand of the sea.
i have to get ready for church in a few minutes but here is a short response...

the words for 'furious' in matthew 2:16 and revelation 12:17 are not even remotely the same word in greek...what you are picking out is just a coincidence of english translation...greek speaking readers of the new testament would not have seen a connection here...

matthew 2:16 matches with revelation 12:4...everything in revelation 12 after verse five happens after jesus' ministry... herod is likewise done by verse five...the dragon is acting through others after that point...