A Biblical Perspective Overlooked!

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Dec 12, 2013
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#1
As I sit in a hotel in Sydney quarantined and pondering all of the threads on "Obedience, LAW KEEPING and SOME sort of WORKS SAVES or HELPS SAVE" I began to notice how many simply fail to to see the following truths about said subjects above. Let us deduce facts about Jesus, the Law and what being biblical really means.

a. Jesus was BORN the Son of God by birth with not one work being done or one law kept. It was a SPIRITUAL BIRTH just AS OUR BIRTH IS SPIRITUAL and GIVEN from above.

b. Jesus was born, lived and died UNDER THE LAW which RATIFIED the new covenant of GRACE. This law DEEMED GUILT, SHUT EVER MOUTH and POINTED US to the NEW COVENANT AND HOW TO BE HEALED.

c. The LAW has been deduced to LOVING GOD and MEN.

d. JESUS CONDEMNED the Pharisee's approach to the LAW for failing to MISS the actual purpose of the law and the WEIGHTIER matters of the law.

So....How did JESUS SET THE EXAMPLE OF A BIBLICAL approach to the WORD OF GOD and MAN.

1. He showed mercy and grace to sinners and did not condemn them.

2. He fed the hungry

3. He prayed to His Heavenly Father and was thankful

4. He cured and or helped the sick

5. He rebuked religionists and instructed the simple folk in the characteristics of a kingdom servant

6. He comforted the down cast

7. He proclaimed the truth of Salvation which was 100% based upon faith

8. Etc.

Biblical christianity is NOT some legalistic adherance to a set of rules and regulations. It simply boils dow to doing right by your local man and by faith trusting the words of the Heavenly Father concerning his only begotten Son of God!
 

EternalFire

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
482
269
63
#2
What wonderful examples, indeed, Jesus set for us to follow. Amazing that obedience figured so prominently and is that upon which eternal salvation is predicated.

"In the days when he was in the flesh, he offered prayers and supplications with loud cries and tears to the one who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence. Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered; and when he was made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him, declared by God high priest according to the order of Melchizedek" (Hebrews 5:7-10).
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#3
What wonderful examples, indeed, Jesus set for us to follow. Amazing that obedience figured so prominently and is that upon which eternal salvation is predicated.

"In the days when he was in the flesh, he offered prayers and supplications with loud cries and tears to the one who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence. Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered; and when he was made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him, declared by God high priest according to the order of Melchizedek" (Hebrews 5:7-10).
Pay attention to his example.....A SON BEFORE he learned OBEDIENCE......and that right there is what people miss.....any and all obedience, work, righteous deed spawns FROM THE FAITH, SONSHIP and SALVATION one already possesses BY Birth!
 
Apr 5, 2020
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#4
Pay attention to his example.....A SON BEFORE he learned OBEDIENCE......and that right there is what people miss.....any and all obedience, work, righteous deed spawns FROM THE FAITH, SONSHIP and SALVATION one already possesses BY Birth!



He is the WORD, not exactly a Son, but God Himself. He was going to obey no matter what. I am not taking anything from His examples because they are specific for us as Believers and followers of Christ. But He was 100% God from word "Go" even before being manifested into a human example and Sacrifice.

As a gambling man would say, He was a sure bet!
 
Apr 5, 2020
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#5
But I agree with your assessments 100%
 

DWR

Well-known member
Apr 27, 2020
593
336
63
#6
As I sit in a hotel in Sydney quarantined and pondering all of the threads on "Obedience, LAW KEEPING and SOME sort of WORKS SAVES or HELPS SAVE" I began to notice how many simply fail to to see the following truths about said subjects above. Let us deduce facts about Jesus, the Law and what being biblical really means.

a. Jesus was BORN the Son of God by birth with not one work being done or one law kept. It was a SPIRITUAL BIRTH just AS OUR BIRTH IS SPIRITUAL and GIVEN from above.

b. Jesus was born, lived and died UNDER THE LAW which RATIFIED the new covenant of GRACE. This law DEEMED GUILT, SHUT EVER MOUTH and POINTED US to the NEW COVENANT AND HOW TO BE HEALED.

c. The LAW has been deduced to LOVING GOD and MEN.

d. JESUS CONDEMNED the Pharisee's approach to the LAW for failing to MISS the actual purpose of the law and the WEIGHTIER matters of the law.

So....How did JESUS SET THE EXAMPLE OF A BIBLICAL approach to the WORD OF GOD and MAN.

1. He showed mercy and grace to sinners and did not condemn them.

2. He fed the hungry

3. He prayed to His Heavenly Father and was thankful

4. He cured and or helped the sick

5. He rebuked religionists and instructed the simple folk in the characteristics of a kingdom servant

6. He comforted the down cast

7. He proclaimed the truth of Salvation which was 100% based upon faith

8. Etc.

Biblical christianity is NOT some legalistic adherance to a set of rules and regulations. It simply boils dow to doing right by your local man and by faith trusting the words of the Heavenly Father concerning his only begotten Son of God!
Good post and I agree.

Why are you in quarantine? Have you been exposed?
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
690
265
63
#7
I think I might be reading what you posted wrong. He was the son of God before He ever came here. Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered.

And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the very commandment you have heard from the beginning. That you must walk in love.

We must keep our eyes focus on Jesus. Heb let us fix our eyes on Jesus the author, founder, originator and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross. Scoming its shame and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Wheres the focus here? Not on us.. but Him. And love is the foundation. Anything not built on that which He is.. will fall. And one must always stay in the word.. always reading it. For that is how faith comes.
 
Apr 5, 2020
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#8
I think I might be reading what you posted wrong. He was the son of God before He ever came here. Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered.

And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the very commandment you have heard from the beginning. That you must walk in love.

We must keep our eyes focus on Jesus. Heb let us fix our eyes on Jesus the author, founder, originator and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross. Scoming its shame and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Wheres the focus here? Not on us.. but Him. And love is the foundation. Anything not built on that which He is.. will fall. And one must always stay in the word.. always reading it. For that is how faith comes.


Try reading it in proper terms.
The Hebrew word begat is the offspring of a man and woman.
But the WORD was begat before men and women existed.
So his definition of begat is not the term as daddy/and junior, but as begat for a purpose.
We know the WORD's purpose.
He created all things and then died for our sins and made a way for our Resurrection.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#9
Good post and I agree.

Why are you in quarantine? Have you been exposed?
No, I flew in from the U.S. and everyone coming in must quarantine for 2 weeks before being allowed into the community. All good haha thanks for asking!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#10
I think I might be reading what you posted wrong. He was the son of God before He ever came here. Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered.

And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the very commandment you have heard from the beginning. That you must walk in love.

We must keep our eyes focus on Jesus. Heb let us fix our eyes on Jesus the author, founder, originator and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross. Scoming its shame and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Wheres the focus here? Not on us.. but Him. And love is the foundation. Anything not built on that which He is.. will fall. And one must always stay in the word.. always reading it. For that is how faith comes.
What I said was clear....JESUS was born the SON OF GOD Spiritually before he LEARNED to be obedient in the FLESH AND BEFORE one good work was done...THE SAME FOR US....by faith we are BORN AGAIN SPIRITUALLY and ETERNALLY before one work or act of obedience is ever done!

The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
17,370
1,812
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#12
As I sit in a hotel in Sydney quarantined and pondering all of the threads on "Obedience, LAW KEEPING and SOME sort of WORKS SAVES or HELPS SAVE" I began to notice how many simply fail to to see the following truths about said subjects above. Let us deduce facts about Jesus, the Law and what being biblical really means.

a. Jesus was BORN the Son of God by birth with not one work being done or one law kept. It was a SPIRITUAL BIRTH just AS OUR BIRTH IS SPIRITUAL and GIVEN from above.

b. Jesus was born, lived and died UNDER THE LAW which RATIFIED the new covenant of GRACE. This law DEEMED GUILT, SHUT EVER MOUTH and POINTED US to the NEW COVENANT AND HOW TO BE HEALED.

c. The LAW has been deduced to LOVING GOD and MEN.

d. JESUS CONDEMNED the Pharisee's approach to the LAW for failing to MISS the actual purpose of the law and the WEIGHTIER matters of the law.

So....How did JESUS SET THE EXAMPLE OF A BIBLICAL approach to the WORD OF GOD and MAN.

1. He showed mercy and grace to sinners and did not condemn them.

2. He fed the hungry

3. He prayed to His Heavenly Father and was thankful

4. He cured and or helped the sick

5. He rebuked religionists and instructed the simple folk in the characteristics of a kingdom servant

6. He comforted the down cast

7. He proclaimed the truth of Salvation which was 100% based upon faith

8. Etc.

Biblical christianity is NOT some legalistic adherance to a set of rules and regulations. It simply boils dow to doing right by your local man and by faith trusting the words of the Heavenly Father concerning his only begotten Son of God!
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
17,370
1,812
113
#13
I especially loved the point you made about how Jesus was born the son of God having done no works and that it was a spiritual birth just as we are spiritually reborn I never even considered that part if I was a work vs grace person and was on the works side it would be a one hit k.o. like ouch. If I may add to your already amazing statement Jesus did his works in his ministry but only did the fathers will he did it to please the father and make him proud not to save himself because he knew where he was going.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#14
d. JESUS CONDEMNED the Pharisee's approach to the LAW for failing to MISS the actual purpose of the law and the WEIGHTIER matters of the law.
Amen

The Law demanded obedience which Christ supplied.

Now we are Under Grace/Jesus >>> He is our Supply!
 
Jan 25, 2015
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#15
As I sit in a hotel in Sydney quarantined and pondering all of the threads on "Obedience, LAW KEEPING and SOME sort of WORKS SAVES or HELPS SAVE" I began to notice how many simply fail to to see the following truths about said subjects above. Let us deduce facts about Jesus, the Law and what being biblical really means.

a. Jesus was BORN the Son of God by birth with not one work being done or one law kept. It was a SPIRITUAL BIRTH just AS OUR BIRTH IS SPIRITUAL and GIVEN from above.

b. Jesus was born, lived and died UNDER THE LAW which RATIFIED the new covenant of GRACE. This law DEEMED GUILT, SHUT EVER MOUTH and POINTED US to the NEW COVENANT AND HOW TO BE HEALED.

c. The LAW has been deduced to LOVING GOD and MEN.

d. JESUS CONDEMNED the Pharisee's approach to the LAW for failing to MISS the actual purpose of the law and the WEIGHTIER matters of the law.

So....How did JESUS SET THE EXAMPLE OF A BIBLICAL approach to the WORD OF GOD and MAN.

1. He showed mercy and grace to sinners and did not condemn them.

2. He fed the hungry

3. He prayed to His Heavenly Father and was thankful

4. He cured and or helped the sick

5. He rebuked religionists and instructed the simple folk in the characteristics of a kingdom servant

6. He comforted the down cast

7. He proclaimed the truth of Salvation which was 100% based upon faith

8. Etc.

Biblical christianity is NOT some legalistic adherance to a set of rules and regulations. It simply boils dow to doing right by your local man and by faith trusting the words of the Heavenly Father concerning his only begotten Son of God!
I like that you are reflecting on the Lord while in you are in lockdown. I also did it and had some wonderful times with our King :)

I will add a few things from my side as well and it is not to argue or rattle the cage, just friends discussing the word.

a. You nailed it, the only thing I would add is that He was living as a Jew, keeping Torah perfectly every day.
b. I would add that Jesus was living under the law but He showed us the love in the law. He never ever oppose the Torah but lived it perfectly in grace. Grace is not a NT concept but a Biblical concept.
c. I would like to add here that the Torah is love, just like Jesus was the living Torah that showed us love by living Torah perfectly.
d. You nailed it again my friend, the Pharisees wanted to add Talmud to the Torah. Every time Jesus rebuked them it was because they were adding to the Torah that which is not Torah but Talmud. Jesus never criticized the Torah but their interpretation of it.

Points 1-8 we can add by living Torah. The Torah was never to condemn us but to teach us covenant with our King.

When we use the law to find our salvation it will condemn us..... always. But if we use it as a tool to get to know our Creator, it will bless us..... always.

So yes you are right, Biblical Christianity is not some legalistic adherence to a set of rules but a relationship and faith in our King.

Keep safe in lockdown :)
 
Jun 11, 2020
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#16
As I sit in a hotel in Sydney quarantined and pondering all of the threads on "Obedience, LAW KEEPING and SOME sort of WORKS SAVES or HELPS SAVE" I began to notice how many simply fail to to see the following truths about said subjects above. Let us deduce facts about Jesus, the Law and what being biblical really means.

a. Jesus was BORN the Son of God by birth with not one work being done or one law kept. It was a SPIRITUAL BIRTH just AS OUR BIRTH IS SPIRITUAL and GIVEN from above.

b. Jesus was born, lived and died UNDER THE LAW which RATIFIED the new covenant of GRACE. This law DEEMED GUILT, SHUT EVER MOUTH and POINTED US to the NEW COVENANT AND HOW TO BE HEALED.

c. The LAW has been deduced to LOVING GOD and MEN.

d. JESUS CONDEMNED the Pharisee's approach to the LAW for failing to MISS the actual purpose of the law and the WEIGHTIER matters of the law.

So....How did JESUS SET THE EXAMPLE OF A BIBLICAL approach to the WORD OF GOD and MAN.

1. He showed mercy and grace to sinners and did not condemn them.

2. He fed the hungry

3. He prayed to His Heavenly Father and was thankful

4. He cured and or helped the sick

5. He rebuked religionists and instructed the simple folk in the characteristics of a kingdom servant

6. He comforted the down cast

7. He proclaimed the truth of Salvation which was 100% based upon faith

8. Etc.

Biblical christianity is NOT some legalistic adherance to a set of rules and regulations. It simply boils dow to doing right by your local man and by faith trusting the words of the Heavenly Father concerning his only begotten Son of God!
In the main I agree with what you have written. But I would define Biblical Christianity differently. When God made man He did actually command man to do certain things. God commanded man to subdue and rule the earth and its environs of sea and sky. God commanded man to "fence about" and "bring to order" the Garden where God met with man. And to accomplish this, man was "commanded" to eat from the Tree of Life (Gen.2:16). So the accomplishment of God's plan with man was inevitably connected with obedience. Man was not asked to keep a Law. Nor was he asked to build a cathedral for God. He was not asked to extend favors to his fellow man. He was not asked to keep a special day dedicated to God. But he was certainly given duties, which, when he failed to do them, had disastrous consequences.

I dare say that the effects of the fruit of the Tree of Life, when taken INSIDE a man, would have made the man effectual in service and intrinsic nature. From the very moment when Adam decided not to eat from the Tree of Life, his decision set in motion a catastrophe. It took the life and death of the Son of man, Who, being the Son of God, became a Man - a Man perfect in all His ways - to open the way to Life again. On resurrection day, some 4,000 years later, in John 20:22, the way had been prepared for men to take in the Prince of Life. And so, if I was asked to define true Christianity, I would quote Colossians 1:27; "To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory."
 

EternalFire

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
482
269
63
#17
I like that you are reflecting on the Lord while in you are in lockdown. I also did it and had some wonderful times with our King :)

I will add a few things from my side as well and it is not to argue or rattle the cage, just friends discussing the word.

a. You nailed it, the only thing I would add is that He was living as a Jew, keeping Torah perfectly every day.
b. I would add that Jesus was living under the law but He showed us the love in the law. He never ever oppose the Torah but lived it perfectly in grace. Grace is not a NT concept but a Biblical concept.
c. I would like to add here that the Torah is love, just like Jesus was the living Torah that showed us love by living Torah perfectly.
d. You nailed it again my friend, the Pharisees wanted to add Talmud to the Torah. Every time Jesus rebuked them it was because they were adding to the Torah that which is not Torah but Talmud. Jesus never criticized the Torah but their interpretation of it.

Points 1-8 we can add by living Torah. The Torah was never to condemn us but to teach us covenant with our King.

When we use the law to find our salvation it will condemn us..... always. But if we use it as a tool to get to know our Creator, it will bless us..... always.

So yes you are right, Biblical Christianity is not some legalistic adherence to a set of rules but a relationship and faith in our King.

Keep safe in lockdown :)
Love the Gerrie Bester quote in your signature. It's quite apropos to this discussion.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#18
What the Law Keepers absolutely fail to grasp...JESUS was born, lived and DIED under the Covenant of LAW which DEMANDED total obedience to the LAW to be deemed righteous. THE LAW CONDEMNS every MAN on the planet other than CHRIST which did no sin. HE TOOK OUR SIN and under the COVENANT OF GRACE imputes HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS, WHICH SATISFIES the ABSOLUTE REQUIREMENTS of the LAW, to our ACCOUNT and he himself HAS BORE ALL OF OUR SIN ON THE cross and it has BEEN PAID IN FULL. I AM NOT UNDER THE LAW, I am under GRACE. Just as Paul was accused, we are accused, of using GRACE as a liscense to sin when we rightfully SAY.....WHERE sin abounds, GRACE ABOUNDS THE MORE.

I AM NOT BOUND under the LAW....it has WORKED IT'S purpose in my life....IT DEEMED MY GUILT, SHUT MY MOUTH (NO EXCUSES) AND POINTED ME TO THE ONLY CURE--->BEING BORN AGAIN, FROM ABOVE, ETERNALLY AND SPIRITUALLY BY FAITH, and it is GOD HIMSELF that KEEPS ME BY HIS POWER, through the faith HE BEGAN, FINISHES AND COMPLETES in me.....

THOSE who attempt to blend the covenants in this age and time frame are committing a FATAL FLAW.....THE books of Hebrews, Galatians and Romans, amongst other passages in other books, CLEARLY teaches that LAW and GRACE do not MIX......The covenant of Grace and Faith SURPASSES the covenant of LAW AND DEATH and is deemed INFERIOR because of the weakness of the fallen sinful flesh which we ALL STILL BEAR!

THE LAW CAME BY MOSES.....what does it say came by JESUS Christ???

For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.
 

EternalFire

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
482
269
63
#19
What the Law Keepers absolutely fail to grasp...JESUS was born, lived and DIED under the Covenant of LAW which DEMANDED total obedience to the LAW to be deemed righteous. THE LAW CONDEMNS every MAN on the planet other than CHRIST which did no sin. HE TOOK OUR SIN and under the COVENANT OF GRACE imputes HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS, WHICH SATISFIES the ABSOLUTE REQUIREMENTS of the LAW, to our ACCOUNT and he himself HAS BORE ALL OF OUR SIN ON THE cross and it has BEEN PAID IN FULL. I AM NOT UNDER THE LAW, I am under GRACE. Just as Paul was accused, we are accused, of using GRACE as a liscense to sin when we rightfully SAY.....WHERE sin abounds, GRACE ABOUNDS THE MORE.

I AM NOT BOUND under the LAW....it has WORKED IT'S purpose in my life....IT DEEMED MY GUILT, SHUT MY MOUTH (NO EXCUSES) AND POINTED ME TO THE ONLY CURE--->BEING BORN AGAIN, FROM ABOVE, ETERNALLY AND SPIRITUALLY BY FAITH, and it is GOD HIMSELF that KEEPS ME BY HIS POWER, through the faith HE BEGAN, FINISHES AND COMPLETES in me.....

THOSE who attempt to blend the covenants in this age and time frame are committing a FATAL FLAW.....THE books of Hebrews, Galatians and Romans, amongst other passages in other books, CLEARLY teaches that LAW and GRACE do not MIX......The covenant of Grace and Faith SURPASSES the covenant of LAW AND DEATH and is deemed INFERIOR because of the weakness of the fallen sinful flesh which we ALL STILL BEAR!

THE LAW CAME BY MOSES.....what does it say came by JESUS Christ???

For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.
Do you suppose that we need to follow the law of Christ?
 
Feb 29, 2020
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#20
Dc,

You will not agree with the following and it will undoubtedly stir you up. But please understand that this is not something I was taught outside of the Bible.

If we take the scripture as a whole God has always required the people to turn from sin and idolatry. God always wanted the people to obey the law from the heart, saying things like, Rend your heart and not your garments, Circumcise the foreskins of your heart, etc. The same idea is in the new testament, in obeying the law from the heart. In fact loving God and your neighbor are from the old testament; Jesus explaining that all the law and prophets hung on those two commandments (loving God being the first).

The issue has always been about what to do about the sins that were committed by man. Once a man in the old testament turned to God and ceased from sin, he only had the animal sacrifices that could not take away his sins. A man could not be made perfect under those sacrifices as pertaining to the conscience (Hebrews 9:9; 10:2). Christ was sent to to offer the perfect sacrifice that would take away sin out of mans conscience thus removing the need to offer yearly sacrifices in remembrance of old sins. This would finally render a man suitable of the inheritance of the saints in light (Colossians 1:12). Christ also preaching to mankind in the grave so that they could also receive this perfect sacrifice that was not available to them in their lifetime (1 Peter 3:18-20; 4:6). All mankind on earth needs the salvation in Christ, for no man can claim he has no sin (1 John 1:8). Once confessing his sin and coming to salvation in Christ, he can be born again, ceasing from sin, and being able to fulfill the scripture which says, Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin (1 John 3:9). God also able to exercise his power in preventing you from sinning when you are walking in the integrity of your heart and with innocent hands (Genesis 20:6).

The gift of eternal life, by which a man is justified from all his past sins, is granted by belief alone. But scripture never tells the born again believer that the life he now lives as a believer is unaffected by his conduct moving forward. If the believer does not continue in the faith grounded and settled he will not be reconciled and will no longer be unreproveable in God's sight (Colossians 1:21-23).

Genuine repentance is important as well; for if you begin walking with the Lord (having repented of sins) and some sin comes along by weakness, ignorance, or by any other means, coming to God in remorseful repentance will avail God's grace for you; to clear your conscience of that sin (Acts 8:22). But if one continues to willfully commit sins he has repented of already, it is impossible for repentance to come to him again (Hebrews 6:6). God will not be swayed by feigned repentance.

The unbelieving Jews were cut off because of unbelief. And as Paul stated, we should not be high minded, but fear. Because if God did not spare them, he will not spare us either if we fail to continue in his goodness (Romans 11:20-22). We should fear because by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil (Proverbs 16:6) and perfect holiness (2 Corinthians 7:1).