a born-again Christian can never (keyword: never) lose their salvation

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theanointedsinner

Guest
#1
a born-again Christian can never lose their salvation

to illustrate: a child can ask "what does born mean?", or "what does being physically born mean?" even though the child is already physically born, in the same way, just because a Christian can ask "what does receive mean?" just because of the mere difficulty in understanding it, and nothing else. Even with confusion in terminologies, Christians can still be saved.

if a child forgot his/her physical birthday, does that mean the child was never physically born to begin with? that's absurd. The same way, even if Christians forgot the day of their salvation, they can still be saved

for a married couple, if they are unable to make the vow the same way they did at the wedding, does that mean that they cease to be married? Definitely not, since that's not "grounds for divorce" and God hates divorce anyway. The same way, even if you are unable to pray the sinner's prayer like you did on the day of salvation you can still be saved.

if there's fights and arguments in marriage, does that mean that the married couple cease to be married? Again, for the same reason that you will have ups and downs in your walk with Jesus, but still, you can still be saved.

if a seedling bear no fruit, does that mean that ... ok, you get my point, it takes time to bear fruits, but still, you can still be saved.

any more illustrations will be more than welcomed in this thread, thank you
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
1,027
418
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#2
That's what the bible says. :)
a born-again Christian can never (keyword: never) lose their salvation
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#3
This topic is so overkilled on here.
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
1,027
418
83
#4
That's not really conducive to adding positively to this discussion. Why be negative when you can simply choose not to be.
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
216
10
18
#5
a born-again Christian can never lose their salvation

to illustrate: a child can ask "what does born mean?", or "what does being physically born mean?" even though the child is already physically born, in the same way, just because a Christian can ask "what does receive mean?" just because of the mere difficulty in understanding it, and nothing else. Even with confusion in terminologies, Christians can still be saved.

if a child forgot his/her physical birthday, does that mean the child was never physically born to begin with? that's absurd. The same way, even if Christians forgot the day of their salvation, they can still be saved

for a married couple, if they are unable to make the vow the same way they did at the wedding, does that mean that they cease to be married? Definitely not, since that's not "grounds for divorce" and God hates divorce anyway. The same way, even if you are unable to pray the sinner's prayer like you did on the day of salvation you can still be saved.

if there's fights and arguments in marriage, does that mean that the married couple cease to be married? Again, for the same reason that you will have ups and downs in your walk with Jesus, but still, you can still be saved.

if a seedling bear no fruit, does that mean that ... ok, you get my point, it takes time to bear fruits, but still, you can still be saved.

any more illustrations will be more than welcomed in this thread, thank you
Is it possible for someone to escape the defilements of the world without true saving faith in Jesus Christ?
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
#6
Is it possible for someone to escape the defilements of the world without true saving faith in Jesus Christ?
Thank you for your question, in this world, we can never escape the defilement, but only through saving faith in Jesus Christ is there hope of being saved. I can be forever amazed at how God is able to keep heaven pure, protected from the sins that originated from Adam and Eve

by the way, what would innocence be like?
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
216
10
18
#7
Thank you for your question, in this world, we can never escape the defilement, but only through saving faith in Jesus Christ is there hope of being saved. I can be forever amazed at how God is able to keep heaven pure, protected from the sins that originated from Adam and Eve

by the way, what would innocence be like?
Thank you for your question, in this world, we can never escape the defilement, but only through saving faith in Jesus Christ is there hope of being saved. I can be forever amazed at how God is able to keep heaven pure, protected from the sins that originated from Adam and Eve

by the way, what would innocence be like?
2 Pet 2:20-22 says you can escape the defilements of the world and then it says you can again become entangled in them again and this condition is worse than if you had never believed in the first place.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
21,966
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#8
Defilements (Strong’s #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") (miasma see study of related word miasmos) describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to ‘impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution.'

Corruption (Strong's #5356 - different Greek word) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

Defilement refers to what is on the outside. But true believers have escaped the corruption (Strong's #5356) that is in the world through lust (see 2 Peter 1:4).

Corruption is much deeper than defilement on the outside: it is decay on the inside. True believers have received a new nature, a divine nature, and they have new and different appetites and desires. *They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep.
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
216
10
18
#9
Defilements (Strong’s #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") (miasma see study of related word miasmos) describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to ‘impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution.'

Corruption (Strong's #5356 - different Greek word) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

Defilement refers to what is on the outside. But true believers have escaped the corruption (Strong's #5356) that is in the world through lust (see 2 Peter 1:4).

Corruption is much deeper than defilement on the outside: it is decay on the inside. True believers have received a new nature, a divine nature, and they have new and different appetites and desires. *They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep.
So when 2 Pet 2:20 says they escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ they have only received an outward cleansing. They remain corrupt on the inside? Could you do a word study on the Greek word for knowledge here. I am of the belief that it is the kind of knowledge that comes from experience. They have experienced Jesus. They do not just have some superficial knowledge of Jesus. Further I wonder why when they get soiled again on the outside Peter says they are worse off than before. Why would they be worse off when they never were true believers at all.
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
1,099
41
48
#10
Is it possible for someone to escape the defilements of the world without true saving faith in Jesus Christ?
If Jesus said that unless one is born again, they cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. Then all that are born again are in the kingdom of heaven. Now come judgment day, we know that he will not judge the lost, because they have been condemned because of unbelief. But, he will judge those that are in the kingdom of heaven, and say to some. Depart from me, I never knew you. Ye workers of iniquty.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
21,966
10,762
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#11
So when 2 Pet 2:20 says they escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ they have only received an outward cleansing. They remain corrupt on the inside? Could you do a word study on the Greek word for knowledge here. I am of the belief that it is the kind of knowledge that comes from experience. They have experienced Jesus. They do not just have some superficial knowledge of Jesus. Further I wonder why when they get soiled again on the outside Peter says they are worse off than before. Why would they be worse off when they never were true believers at all.
Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these men because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,470
113
Anaheim, Cali.
#12
a born-again Christian can never lose their salvation

to illustrate: a child can ask "what does born mean?", or "what does being physically born mean?" even though the child is already physically born, in the same way, just because a Christian can ask "what does receive mean?" just because of the mere difficulty in understanding it, and nothing else. Even with confusion in terminologies, Christians can still be saved.

if a child forgot his/her physical birthday, does that mean the child was never physically born to begin with? that's absurd. The same way, even if Christians forgot the day of their salvation, they can still be saved

for a married couple, if they are unable to make the vow the same way they did at the wedding, does that mean that they cease to be married? Definitely not, since that's not "grounds for divorce" and God hates divorce anyway. The same way, even if you are unable to pray the sinner's prayer like you did on the day of salvation you can still be saved.

if there's fights and arguments in marriage, does that mean that the married couple cease to be married? Again, for the same reason that you will have ups and downs in your walk with Jesus, but still, you can still be saved.

if a seedling bear no fruit, does that mean that ... ok, you get my point, it takes time to bear fruits, but still, you can still be saved.

any more illustrations will be more than welcomed in this thread, thank you
Allow me to postulate a 3d option; a worker may grow weary of fighting the good fight and although he thinks he [she/they] know the truth, opts to trade riches in glory for rewards here and now. They decide "I'd rather rule in hell than serve in heaven" and makes the horrible decision to trade away Gods gifts for fame, power and fortune and with knowledge and forethought. They start preaching a false doctrine? Were they ever really saved or did they simply sell their soul and salvation to the devil as I suspect many have?
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
1,027
418
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#13
Where in scripture is there described such a thing as an anointed sinner?
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
10,050
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#15
If Jesus said that unless one is born again, they cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. Then all that are born again are in the kingdom of heaven. Now come judgment day, we know that he will not judge the lost, because they have been condemned because of unbelief. But, he will judge those that are in the kingdom of heaven, and say to some. Depart from me, I never knew you. Ye workers of iniquty.
Do you realize you are contradicting yourself in the same paragraph?

Tell me how one can be a born again Child of God by receiving Jesus, and sealed by The Holy Spirit, yet Jesus tells some of His Children that HE NEVER KNEW THEM!!?
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
10,050
6,475
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#16
So when 2 Pet 2:20 says they escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ they have only received an outward cleansing. They remain corrupt on the inside? Could you do a word study on the Greek word for knowledge here. I am of the belief that it is the kind of knowledge that comes from experience. They have experienced Jesus. They do not just have some superficial knowledge of Jesus. Further I wonder why when they get soiled again on the outside Peter says they are worse off than before. Why would they be worse off when they never were true believers at all.

There are several passages that speak about being cleaned and then filled by even worse corruptions than before. Here is another.

An Unclean Spirit Returns Matthew 12
43 “When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, he goes through dry places, seeking rest, and finds none. 44 Then he says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ And when he comes, he finds it empty, swept, and put in order. 45 Then he goes and takes with him seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man is worse than the first. So shall it also be with this wicked generation.”


So the issue is what is filling a person AFTER he has been washed and cleaned? So in 1 Corinthians 6 we see people who were not ONLY washed and cleaned, but ALSO filled with the Holy Spirit, and other passages talk about The Holy Spirit SEALING us with Him.

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [b]homosexuals, nor [c]sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were [d]SANCTIFIED, but you were JUSTIFIED in the name of the Lord Jesus AND BY THE SPIRIT OF OUR GOD.
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
1,099
41
48
#18
Do you realize you are contradicting yourself in the same paragraph?

Tell me how one can be a born again Child of God by receiving Jesus, and sealed by The Holy Spirit, yet Jesus tells some of His Children that HE NEVER KNEW THEM!!?
You are wrong. Yes you are sealed. You now belong to him for better or for worse. Your judgment is more severe that those that are lost because you know the truth and failed to live by it. Please, read more scripture on this. You should know that only the righteous will be judged, and the lost will rise and be cast in the lake of fire,because their judgment has been sealed.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
10,050
6,475
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#19
You are wrong. Yes you are sealed. You now belong to him for better or for worse. Your judgment is more severe that those that are lost because you know the truth and failed to live by it. Please, read more scripture on this. You should know that only the righteous will be judged, and the lost will rise and be cast in the lake of fire,because their judgment has been sealed.
Yeah.. I guess I could just say "you are wrong" too, but I'll let the dozen or more passages in Scripture that speak of a judgement of the LIVING AND THE DEAD. Like this one make my point:
2 Timothy 4:1 New King James Version (NKJV)
Preach the Word
4 I charge you [a]therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead [b]at His appearing and His kingdom:

The living's sin's of course have already been judged and paid for by the Blood of Christ.

And can you please tell me that if Jesus is speaking to His born again Children, when He tells them to depart from Him to Hell, why He said He NEVER knew them? NOT, that He knew them at one time and they did or didn't do something to become unborn again, but that He NEVER knew them.
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
1,099
41
48
#20
Yeah.. I guess I could just say "you are wrong" too, but I'll let the dozen or more passages in Scripture that speak of a judgement of the LIVING AND THE DEAD. Like this one make my point:
2 Timothy 4:1 New King James Version (NKJV)
Preach the Word
4 I charge you [a]therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead [b]at His appearing and His kingdom:

The living's sin's of course have already been judged and paid for by the Blood of Christ.

And can you please tell me that if Jesus is speaking to His born again Children, when He tells them to depart from Him to Hell, why He said He NEVER knew them? NOT, that He knew them at one time and they did or didn't do something to become unborn again, but that He NEVER knew them.
Because the lost will not say . did we not prophesy in your name, heal the sick and raise the dead? No, only those that are in the kingdom.