a challenge for those who believe Jesus allows divorce after adultery

[kennethcadwell]

Paul says there is no allowance for divorce, I think you need to go reread the bible please.
Here is one way Paul says it is acceptable;


[h=1]1 Corinthians 7:14-15[/h]14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy. 15 But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace.

 

[phil112]

According to Mark and Luke and Paul, there is no allowance to divorce OR remarry. .........................

You are blind. You have uncircumsized ears and heart. Paul was very clear about it in the 7th chapter of 1 Corinthians. The bible does not contradict itself, yet at first blush it seems so. So we have to understand who Christ was talking to in Matthew 5:32. He was answering a question, talking to jews that were in a covenant relationship with God.
Paul, as the chosen apostle to bring Christ's message to the gentile, was speaking directly and explictly to gentiles. There were no gentiles in Christ's audience.

You keep harping on what Christ said in Matthew and ignoring the fact that Christ told Paul what to tell you and I in reference to divorce.

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

That verse should have a picture of your face next to it. It describes you to a "T".

 

[AVoice]

Paul says there is no allowance for divorce, I think you need to go reread the bible please.
Here is one way Paul says it is acceptable;


1 Corinthians 7:14-15

14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy. 15 But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace.

I believe you are understanding that verse incorrectly making it so Paul contradicts himself:
1 Cor 7:
[SUP]39 [/SUP]The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.
This is one of the verses where the old solemn phrase 'till death do us part' was derived.
You would have us believe that 'till death do us part' is false doctrine.
Is it 'till death or abandonment do us part'? Or is it "till death, or adultery, or abandonment do us part"?
And what happens when she does not commit adultery or abandon, yet she does something much worse than either of those things?
So do they really mean a man cannot divorce and remarry unless she does something deemed at least as bad as commit adultery?

The liberty Paul refers to in verse 15 is the liberty from no longer being bound to stay with and try to convert the unbeliever once the unbeliever has departed.
Paul is speaking to those who are grounded in the basics of Christianity. Remarriage is adultery as Jesus stated 7 times. That is a very basic fundamental point of Christianity.
The assumption that abandonment is a grounds for divorce is merely a mistake made by taking a section of scripture out of context.

 

[kennethcadwell]

You are understanding that verse incorrectly making it so Paul contradicts himself:
1 Cor 7:
[SUP]39 [/SUP]The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.
This is one of the verses where the old solemn phrase 'till death do us part' was derived.
You would have us believe that 'till death do us part' is false doctrine.
Is it 'till death or abandonment do us part'? Or is it "till death, or adultery, or abandonment do us part"?
And what happens when she does not commit adultery or abandon, yet she does something much worse than either of those things?
So do they really mean a man cannot divorce and remarry unless she does something deemed at least as bad as commit adultery?

The liberty Paul refers to in verse 15 is the liberty from no longer being bound to stay with and try to convert the unbeliever once the unbeliever has departed.
Paul is speaking to those who are grounded in the basics of Christianity. Remarriage is adultery as Jesus stated 7 times. That is a very basic fundamental point of Christianity.
The assumption that abandonment is a grounds for divorce is merely a mistake made by taking a section of scripture out of context.

Yes the wife is bound by the law, and what is Christ law that He set forth.....He said no divorce except for sexual immorality, adultery, or fornication; depending on what version you read. Your verse in 1 Corinthians 7:39 does not contradict verses 14-15 unless you try and make them.

[h=1]1 Corinthians 7:27-28[/h]27 Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife. 28 But even if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. Nevertheless such will have trouble in the flesh, but I would spare you.

 

[AVoice]

we have to understand who Christ was talking to in Matthew 5:32.

Is It True That What Jesus Said About Marriage Applies Only To Believers?

A person has been both married and divorced before becoming a Christian; he becomes a Christian and is lonely. He wants to know if he can remarry. Let us now look at what Jesus said:
“Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.” Luke 16:18
“And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.” Mark 10:11,12
In answer to his question about remarriage, his pastor tells him that he is eligible to become remarried because that first marriage and divorce took place before becoming a Christian. Has this man been told the truth? To answer this question let us ask other questions:
Does the Old Testament commandment, [which is included in the New Testament, (Matt. 19:16-22)] “Thou shalt not commit adultery” apply only to believers? Cannot an unbeliever also commit adultery? What about another of the Ten Commandments which is also included in the New Testament: “Thou shalt not steal”; Is it possible that this commandment can only apply to believers? Cannot an unbeliever also be guilty of theft? Can we be so arrogant as to assume that an unbeliever cannot be held guilty of theft because as an unbeliever he is incapable of grasping the concept of the ownership of possessions and that it is wrong for someone to take into their possession that which does not belong to them? Similarly, can we be so blind as to assume that an unbeliever, because he is an unbeliever, cannot grasp the concept of marriage; one man and one woman belonging to one another only and that it is wrong to engage themselves in a sexual relationship with anyone other than their partner to whom they have committed themselves in marriage?
In the same way that it would be foolish to say that the commandment “Thou shalt not steal” applies only to believers, so likewise, it would be foolish to say that “Thou shalt not commit adultery” applies only to believers. Marriage is one of those things that unbelievers do by nature that gives evidence of the knowledge of good and evil in their hearts, as Paul said:
“(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another” Romans 2:13-15.
It is hoped that the reader of this paper can appreciate what their accepting that an unbeliever can commit adultery implies. The acknowledgement that an unbeliever can commit adultery is in effect an admission that the unbeliever’s marriage is recognized by God. Otherwise, a sexual relationship with someone other than his or her spouse could not be regarded as adultery.
Since God made man and woman and since he instituted marriage, all those partaking of it are bound by the regulations he has placed on it regardless of whether or not they are aware of them. Jesus, in the process of teaching and introducing the New Covenant, plainly revealed the truth concerning marriage. “Whosoever”, in the above quoted statements made by Jesus, literally means whosoever. Believer or unbeliever, if you are remarried and your first lawful[1] husband or wife is alive, you are committing adultery. You cannot repent of your lawful marriage. It is holy.
[HR][/HR][1] By “lawful” I mean both parties in the first marriage had not been married before. The only way that someone may lawfully marry a previously lawfully married person is if that person’s spouse is dead. See Rom. 7:1-3 and 1 Cor. 7:39.

 

[AuphirahQueen]

Is It True That What Jesus Said About Marriage Applies Only To Believers?

A person has been both married and divorced before becoming a Christian; he becomes a Christian and is lonely. He wants to know if he can remarry. Let us now look at what Jesus said:
“Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.” Luke 16:18
“And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.” Mark 10:11,12
In answer to his question about remarriage, his pastor tells him that he is eligible to become remarried because that first marriage and divorce took place before becoming a Christian. Has this man been told the truth? To answer this question let us ask other questions:
Does the Old Testament commandment, [which is included in the New Testament, (Matt. 19:16-22)] “Thou shalt not commit adultery” apply only to believers? Cannot an unbeliever also commit adultery? What about another of the Ten Commandments which is also included in the New Testament: “Thou shalt not steal”; Is it possible that this commandment can only apply to believers? Cannot an unbeliever also be guilty of theft? Can we be so arrogant as to assume that an unbeliever cannot be held guilty of theft because as an unbeliever he is incapable of grasping the concept of the ownership of possessions and that it is wrong for someone to take into their possession that which does not belong to them? Similarly, can we be so blind as to assume that an unbeliever, because he is an unbeliever, cannot grasp the concept of marriage; one man and one woman belonging to one another only and that it is wrong to engage themselves in a sexual relationship with anyone other than their partner to whom they have committed themselves in marriage?
In the same way that it would be foolish to say that the commandment “Thou shalt not steal” applies only to believers, so likewise, it would be foolish to say that “Thou shalt not commit adultery” applies only to believers. Marriage is one of those things that unbelievers do by nature that gives evidence of the knowledge of good and evil in their hearts, as Paul said:
“(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another” Romans 2:13-15.
It is hoped that the reader of this paper can appreciate what their accepting that an unbeliever can commit adultery implies. The acknowledgement that an unbeliever can commit adultery is in effect an admission that the unbeliever’s marriage is recognized by God. Otherwise, a sexual relationship with someone other than his or her spouse could not be regarded as adultery.
Since God made man and woman and since he instituted marriage, all those partaking of it are bound by the regulations he has placed on it regardless of whether or not they are aware of them. Jesus, in the process of teaching and introducing the New Covenant, plainly revealed the truth concerning marriage. “Whosoever”, in the above quoted statements made by Jesus, literally means whosoever. Believer or unbeliever, if you are remarried and your first lawful[1] husband or wife is alive, you are committing adultery. You cannot repent of your lawful marriage. It is holy.
[HR][/HR][1] By “lawful” I mean both parties in the first marriage had not been married before. The only way that someone may lawfully marry a previously lawfully married person is if that person’s spouse is dead. See Rom. 7:1-3 and 1 Cor. 7:39.

Are Christians saved who have remarried even if their first spouse is still alive because of divorce? With all the other problems of the world: wars, famine, diseases, hatred, natural disasters really think ABBA cares about this. King David had many wives, Jacob has two wives(sisters) and concubines, Lot/wife/concubine. Pastors today are having affairs outside the marriage and lustful behaviors.

 

[AVoice]

Yes the wife is bound by the law, and what is Christ law that He set forth.....He said no divorce except for sexual immorality, adultery, or fornication; depending on what version you read. Your verse in 1 Corinthians 7:39 does not contradict verses 14-15 unless you try and make them.

1 Corinthians 7:27-28

27 Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife. 28But even if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. Nevertheless such will have trouble in the flesh, but I would spare you.

1 Cor 7:
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.

If a man had been previously bound to a wife and she died, then he would no longer be bound, and so would be free to marry again. He has been "loosed from a wife."

If a man, before becoming a Christian married a divorced woman, he would have had a "wife" but it would have been unlawful by what the NT has revealed, and hence, to repent and get out of that adulterous marriage, he would also have been "loosed from a wife".

If a man had been betrothed, he would have been titled as her husband and she as his wife. He would have had a "wife" by virtue how they used the words "husband" and "wife". If he terminated the betrothal, (the common grounds being for fornication) he would have been "loosed from a wife".

So there we have 3 ways a man could have been loosed from a wife after which he was eligible to get a wife.
Paul was absolutely NOT giving permission to do what Jesus said is adultery:

Mark 10:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Luke 16:
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.

Paul was speaking to those, many of whom may have been under teaching by other apostles and qualified leadership, who were grounded in the basics of Christianity. So he was talking to those who he knew were knowledgeable. He knew they would never take his words out of context and assume he was allowing what God hates. God hates adultery. Remarriage is adultery.
Repentance from adultery being committed by being remarried means the termination of that adulterous relationship.

 

[prodigal]

so if i marry at 17 and it dont work out, now i find myself remarried at 45 with 3 kids, you saying i should leave them and be re united to my first wife..

you cant undo adultery but you can be forgiven

 

[kennethcadwell]

1 Cor 7:
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.

If a man had been previously bound to a wife and she died, then he would no longer be bound, and so would be free to marry again. He has been "loosed from a wife."

If a man, before becoming a Christian married a divorced woman, he would have had a "wife" but it would have been unlawful by what the NT has revealed, and hence, to repent and get out of that adulterous marriage, he would also have been "loosed from a wife".

If a man had been betrothed, he would have been titled as her husband and she as his wife. He would have had a "wife" by virtue how they used the words "husband" and "wife". If he terminated the betrothal, (the common grounds being for fornication) he would have been "loosed from a wife".

So there we have 3 ways a man could have been loosed from a wife after which he was eligible to get a wife.
Paul was absolutely NOT giving permission to do what Jesus said is adultery:

Mark 10:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Luke 16:
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.

Paul was speaking to those, many of whom may have been under teaching by other apostles and qualified leadership, who were grounded in the basics of Christianity. So he was talking to those who he knew were knowledgeable. He knew they would never take his words out of context and assume he was allowing what God hates. God hates adultery. Remarriage is adultery.
Repentance from adultery being committed by being remarried means the termination of that adulterous relationship.

That scripture passage I gave has nothing to do with the wife just dying.
It is referring to all ways a man can become loosed from a wife, including divorce. Notice how it first says do not seek to be loosed. By your understanding then that would mean he was seeking her death, which it does not say that. You are reading to much into it to make it fit your theology. You are trying to make the bible make divorce 100 % wrong in all circumstances, but the bible does no such thing.

 

[AVoice]

Are Christians saved who have remarried even if their first spouse is still alive because of divorce? With all the other problems of the world: wars, famine, diseases, hatred, natural disasters really think ABBA cares about this. King David had many wives, Jacob has two wives(sisters) and concubines, Lot/wife/concubine. Pastors today are having affairs outside the marriage and lustful behaviors.

Adulterers shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Jesus said remarriage is adultery. He said it seven times. What does it take for a person to accept the very easy statements that he made?
God is no respector of persons. Pastors or whoever. Adulterers shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

King David, Abraham, Solomon etc. were not Christians. A Christian is someone who follows Christ. Christ had not come yet and so they were still "under the law", which was very liberal on a number of moral issues as it allowed polygamy, killing under certain circumstances, vengeance, etc.
We are not "under the law" in Christ. We are under truth, which by receiving and walking in the Holy Spirit, it is possible to abide in the truth, and hence abide in not committing adultery. Remarriage is adultery. We cannot abide in truth and at the same time be committing adultery by virtue of being remarried while a first lawful spouse is still alive.
Adultery has to be repented of. The adultery has to stop.
Adulterers shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[secularhermit]

This is a challange:

http://christianchat.com/christian-family-forum/106376-my-wife-has-admitted-cheating-me.html

 

[AVoice]

That scripture passage I gave has nothing to do with the wife just dying.
It is referring to all ways a man can become loosed from a wife, including divorce. Notice how it first says do not seek to be loosed. By your understanding then that would mean he was seeking her death, which it does not say that. You are reading to much into it to make it fit your theology. You are trying to make the bible make divorce 100 % wrong in all circumstances, but the bible does no such thing.

You are making a mistake. The loosing from a wife, whereby a man afterward may marry, is understood to be speaking about a lawful loosing, such as I gave 3 examples. If it was not a lawful loosing then they are still bound, as Jesus identified by virtue of showing that remarriage is adultery.
Truth applies to both believer as well as to unbeliever. Truth applies to all. If someone is not aware of a truth, then that truth still applies to him. If a person is remarried and believes there is nothing wrong with it, what Jesus said is still true. Remarriage is adultery.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Adulterers shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Jesus said remarriage is adultery. He said it seven times. What does it take for a person to accept the very easy statements that he made?
God is no respector of persons. Pastors or whoever. Adulterers shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

King David, Abraham, Solomon etc. were not Christians. A Christian is someone who follows Christ. Christ had not come yet and so they were still "under the law", which was very liberal on a number of moral issues as it allowed polygamy, killing under certain circumstances, vengeance, etc.
We are not "under the law" in Christ. We are under truth, which by receiving and walking in the Holy Spirit, it is possible to abide in the truth, and hence abide in not committing adultery. Remarriage is adultery. We cannot abide in truth and at the same time be committing adultery by virtue of being remarried while a first lawful spouse is still alive.
Adultery has to be repented of. The adultery has to stop.
Adulterers shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

How about the fact that you keep denying what He said in Matthew;

Matthew 5:32
But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Matthew 19:9
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

 

[kennethcadwell]

You are making a mistake. The loosing from a wife, whereby a man afterward may marry, is understood to be speaking about a lawful loosing, such as I gave 3 examples. If it was not a lawful loosing then they are still bound, as Jesus identified by virtue of showing that remarriage is adultery.
Truth applies to both believer as well as to unbeliever. Truth applies to all. If someone is not aware of a truth, then that truth still applies to him. If a person is remarried and believes there is nothing wrong with it, what Jesus said is still true. Remarriage is adultery.

Remarriage is only wrong for the parties involved if their first marriages ended in other ways besides death and sexual immorality......

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Keep it simple.

Matthew 19:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

If a spouse commits adultery, that spouse is an adulterer already. If the other divorces on such grounds, the adulterous one is already adulterous, so the one putting him or her away isn't making the adulterer an adulterer.

There is no command to require the adulterer be put out of the marriage. The better way is to forgive a repentant adulterer, likened to Hosea, married to the adulteress that was the one to leave him, analogous of the relationship of Israel to God.
A spouse that divorces the other for any other reason, other than sexual immorality, then makes him or her an adulterer upon remarrying since the only permissible cause for divorce according to Jesus is one of those sexual sins.

IOW, if a man divorces his wife because she is barren or talks too much, for instance, he effectively curses himself as an adulterer against the first wife if he marries another. Moses allowed divorce on frivolous grounds because of the hardness of hearts. Jesus corrected that without disobeying Moses. What wisdom!

IOW, if you want to divorce your spouse that isn't guilty of sexual sin, know that you commit adultery if you remarry. That then makes that new spouse married to an adulterer (you, the one who wanted out of the marriage).

Divorce is a very serious thing with God. The solution? Repent and mean it forevermore. Stop the cycle! Take a few years to get to know a potential spouse, pray much with them, get some training on how to stay married, serve the Lord together before tying the knot.

Part of repenting for putting a spouse away without permitted cause per Jesus should include treating that former wife very well, and put any children by her higher than yourself. Earnestly seek her forgiveness.

 

[AVoice]

so if i marry at 17 and it dont work out, now i find myself remarried at 45 with 3 kids, you saying i should leave them and be re united to my first wife..

you cant undo adultery but you can be forgiven

The wife you married at 17 I suppose was the first for you both. Then you are still husband and wife in God's eyes. The relationships you are both in now are adultery. Either get out and go to be with your real wife or get out and stay single. The responsibility to provide for children is a separate topic. A repentant person needs to deal responsibly with whatever circumstances he finds himself in. It is wrong to abandon the care of your children while it is also wrong to continue living in adultery by remarriage. What Jesus said about remarriage being adultery is deadly serious.
Adulterers shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Here is how you keep it simple;

Matthew 12:31
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


If both the man and woman both confess their sins of remarriage, and their marriage ends up being a long lasting good marriage. Their sin will be forgiven, and to say otherwise would be speaking against God.......

 

[AVoice]

How about the fact that you keep denying what He said in Matthew;

Matthew 5:32
But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Matthew 19:9
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

The purpose for this thread is to show how there was an entirely different kind of divorce practiced by the Jewish people. Joseph was about to do it to Mary. It was a divorce for fornication. It was NOT for adultery.
You have proven by your post that you have no idea what this thread is about. I think you should show some respect and find out what a thread is about before responding.

 

[kennethcadwell]

The purpose for this thread is to show how there was an entirely different kind of divorce practiced by the Jewish people. Joseph was about to do it to Mary. It was a divorce for fornication. It was NOT for adultery.
You have proven by your post that you have no idea what this thread is about. I think you should show some respect and find out what a thread is about before responding.

What I was replying to was you telling people they could not get divorced on grounds of sexual immorality, and then get remarried. That is false pretense and unbiblical to tell others, as the Lord gave permission for divorce on those grounds.

 

[AVoice]

Here is how you keep it simple;

Matthew 12:31
Wherefore I say unto you,All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.


1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


If both the man and woman both confess their sins of remarriage, and their marriage ends up being a long lasting good marriage. Their sin will be forgiven, and to say otherwise would be speaking against God.......

You are in effect saying their first MARRIAGE has been forgiven. The marriage was not a sin.
By lumping the sin of divorce with the actual marriage itself and claiming they have BOTH been forgiven is a form of blasphemy. God can forgive that sin of blasphemy because he understands how people are doing so in ignorance and by being mislead by modern false teachers.
Most churches in the US are adultery cults by virtue of their allowing adultery by remarriage.
Lawful marriages are valid until one of the parties involved is dead.